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Post by Velรฒhaven on Nov 7, 2021 10:26:15 GMT
The thread title is merely Treblinka. Transports back out is a very important issue, which you are trying to deflect from, because there is no evidence of regular mass transports, which destroys claims TII was not a death camp and it served some other vague function. Transports to an from this camp are important; what is not is the mantra of accommodation and feeding etc without evidence once they leave (if they did leave). It appears that most of the transport documents are missing. Of the thousands of trains that have moved over the Polish rail network it is surprising that the only ones that seem to come to light are the ones heading to Treblinka. There seems to be nothing about transports of food, coal, army personnel and so on. The only station master that has anything to say, it seems is Franciszek Zabecki Treblinka station. For a top secret program the SD did a poor job of vetting the railway personnel considering this person was a spy for the Polish Underground; he would have been executed. The equivalent is transporting nuclear fuel from Chicago to Los Alamos by rail, allowing station master privy to the National Secrets. This does not gel to be frank. The testimony of the station master from Malkinia and Siedlce and other places on the journey would be corroborating but there is probably a reason why those documents are missing as well as the testimony. Investigators do not interview people who may disagree with their positive line of inquiry. There is absolutely no reason why a train would not back into this spur line, allow passengers to disembark from some wagons, get more on board and take off down the line, not returning to Treblinka station. Those train would return some time later empty. This is the normal procedure for most railways. While a train may have say 20 wagons with 2000 people and goods, they could easily drop off 200, take on board a similar amount and head elsewhere; most of the people on board unaware of the situation. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Nov 7, 2021 16:57:24 GMT
The thread title is merely Treblinka. Transports back out is a very important issue, which you are trying to deflect from, because there is no evidence of regular mass transports, which destroys claims TII was not a death camp and it served some other vague function. Transports to an from this camp are important; what is not is the mantra of accommodation and feeding etc without evidence once they leave (if they did leave). It appears that most of the transport documents are missing. Of the thousands of trains that have moved over the Polish rail network it is surprising that the only ones that seem to come to light are the ones heading to Treblinka. There seems to be nothing about transports of food, coal, army personnel and so on. The only station master that has anything to say, it seems is Franciszek Zabecki Treblinka station. For a top secret program the SD did a poor job of vetting the railway personnel considering this person was a spy for the Polish Underground; he would have been executed. The equivalent is transporting nuclear fuel from Chicago to Los Alamos by rail, allowing station master privy to the National Secrets. This does not gel to be frank. The testimony of the station master from Malkinia and Siedlce and other places on the journey would be corroborating but there is probably a reason why those documents are missing as well as the testimony. Investigators do not interview people who may disagree with their positive line of inquiry. There is absolutely no reason why a train would not back into this spur line, allow passengers to disembark from some wagons, get more on board and take off down the line, not returning to Treblinka station. Those train would return some time later empty. This is the normal procedure for most railways. While a train may have say 20 wagons with 2000 people and goods, they could easily drop off 200, take on board a similar amount and head elsewhere; most of the people on board unaware of the situation. That there is no evidence from any witness or document to regular mass transports back out of TII and subsequent accommodation of the c860,000 people allegedly not gassed, destroys revisionist claims TII was a transit camp.
There are plenty of witnesses and documents that empty trains, or trains carrying property, left TII. That is consistent with its role in AR, the mass murder of and theft from the Jews. You concentrate on Zabecki, but all the other Polish rail workers say the same. This document, of a transport of Jews from Skopje in Macedonia, has Treblinka as the final destination of those people;
There was no resettlement in the east from TII, that is a revisionist fantasy.
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Velรฒhaven
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Post by Velรฒhaven on Nov 7, 2021 18:12:46 GMT
There are plenty of witnesses and documents that empty trains, or trains carrying property, left TII. That is consistent with its role in AR, the mass murder of and theft from the Jews. You concentrate on Zabecki, but all the other Polish rail workers say the same. This document, of a transport of Jews from Skopje in Macedonia, has Treblinka as the final destination of those people; yadvashem.orgThere was no resettlement in the east from TII, that is a revisionist fantasy. For an allegedly "top secret" operation, the security was beyond lax, so many rail workers privy to the workings of the inner sanctum of the Reich. It appears as though the Gestapo was not managing these transports very well to this location. The report given was signed by "Karl, Military Police Lieutenant and Company Commander"; the military police units were "Geheime Feldpolizei" who was working in collusion with SS Hauptsturmfรผhrer Dannecker, an associate of Adolf Eichmann. Dannecker was assigned to the Sicherheitsdienst (SD); he was another one who "committed suicide" at the hands of the allies. To be honest I am not sure if the Geheime Feldpolizei would work with the Geheime Staatspolizei especially to escort prisoners. Will look more into this, but thanks for the information. As mentioned there seems to be a plethora of information regarding Treblinka transports while the rest of the rolling stock remain hidden, or lost. T he witnesses and documents of those empty trains leaving this camp need to be produced if you could please.
Thank you for the information on the Skopje people, this is being examined in more detail. The resettlement in the east if it occurred or not is outside the brief of this thread; potentially being removed from this location does not imply anything except removal. If there are concerns about alleged resettlement then please use the appropriate thread and not attempt to derail this one.  |
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Post by Velรฒhaven on Nov 7, 2021 18:26:16 GMT
Wiernik claimed that a "digger" (dragline) was used to exhume as many as 5,000 bodies at a time. Others said that as many as four diggers/draglines were used to exhume cadavers. Surely the dragline scenario has reached its end; anything Wiernik says is pure speculation and misinformation. I am not sure if one can honestly discuss the reality of Treblinka using Wiernik in any way, shape or form. People can read what this man has written for themselves and decide the reality; there could be a separate thread on this mans book and testimony as well as that of Rajchman |
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Post by Nessie on Nov 8, 2021 9:11:55 GMT
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Velรฒhaven
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Post by Velรฒhaven on Nov 8, 2021 9:19:08 GMT
Thank you for this information Nessie; it will take some time to read, reflect and correlate. No one on this forum is claiming TII was a transit camp so there is no need to repeat this. However, all camps have people coming and going and can act as a transit facility when and where required. There are issues with the integrity of the Polish Commission. Poland a communist country a vassal of Moscow and the Extraordinary Commission but all information is worthy. No doubt certain points will be raised in the future for clarification and your opinion. |
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Post by Nessie on Nov 8, 2021 9:30:19 GMT
There have been multiple claims by revisionists that TII was a transit camp. Turnagain wholeheartedly backs Eric Hunt's claims of TII as a transit camp, despite Hunt admitting he was wrong! There is also widespread revisionist support for Mattogno, Kues and Graf's claims TII was a transit camp.
The initial 1944-5 Polish Commission had nothing to do with the Soviets and everything to do with the Polish Government that was in exile during the war, which unsuccessfully tried to re-establish itself after the war. The Poles did not trust the Soviets to gather evidence of atrocities against Poles to be presented at the Nuremberg trials. The majority of Jews killed at the AR camps were Polish and the Poles were concerned that Polish deaths would be subsumed by the Soviets into Soviet war deaths, as the Soviets tried to portray themselves as the greatest victims of Nazism, not the Jews.
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Velรฒhaven
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Post by Velรฒhaven on Nov 8, 2021 9:52:56 GMT
There have been multiple claims by revisionists that TII was a transit camp. Turnagain wholeheartedly backs Eric Hunt's claims of TII as a transit camp, despite Hunt admitting he was wrong! There is also widespread revisionist support for Mattogno, Kues and Graf's claims TII was a transit camp. The initial 1944-5 Polish Commission had nothing to do with the Soviets and everything to do with the Polish Government that was in exile during the war, which unsuccessfully tried to re-establish itself after the war. The Poles did not trust the Soviets to gather evidence of atrocities against Poles to be presented at the Nuremberg trials. The majority of Jews killed at the AR camps were Polish and the Poles were concerned that Polish deaths would be subsumed by the Soviets into Soviet war deaths, as the Soviets tried to portray themselves as the greatest victims of Nazism, not the Jews. It has been suggested this was a transit camp, but a hunch really. Turnagain may well back the transit claim but there is much information to suggest people simply bypassed Treblinka II. Think of the Warsaw boys who were sent to Bobruysk via either Brest or Malikinia (there are only two ways); the people returning from Bialystok also bypassed this facility on both tracks. Like other Eastern Bloc countries (East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Albania), Poland was regarded as a satellite state in the Soviet sphere of interest, but it was never a part of the Soviet Union. It was a vassal of Moscow. |
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Post by Nessie on Nov 8, 2021 11:38:50 GMT
This thread is about the camps at Treblinka, so discussing those who did not go there, is off topic. It is acknowledged TI was a labour camp for the quarry next to it. TII is widely claimed to have been a transit camp, by those who dispute it was a death camp.
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Venatแปr
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Post by Venatแปr on Nov 9, 2021 9:24:55 GMT
This thread is about the camps at Treblinka, so discussing those who did not go there, is off topic. It is acknowledged TI was a labour camp for the quarry next to it. TII is widely claimed to have been a transit camp, by those who dispute it was a death camp. As many people did not enter this camp as claimed, it is of profound importance; the claims made are in reality false history . The term "death camp" is just hyperbole, no more and no less than millions of school kids world wide calling the school dental clinic a "murder house". |
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