Treblinka

Indeed the physical possibilities can be determined by the capabilities of the era, which was not much be hind our own now to be honest.  There seems to be very little German Engineering Prowess at Treblinka, considering the machine to do the gassing was some make shift engine, the pyres also makeshift and chambers wooden shacks.  This information does not suggest high engineering skills but some macabre makeshift concept that probably would not work at all, let alone efficiently enough to dispatch 800 thousand souls, without a trace of their existence.

I think it was mentioned that the transportation issue is another issue altogether and outside the brief of this thread. (as important as it is); to keep on mentioning it could be construed as an attempted derail  ; I am sure you understand.

Those witnesses need to be balanced against such people as Marian Oslzuk who saw nothing untoward for years except black marketing and the train driver Henryk Gawkowski who also mentions black market operations.


This begs the question of how the selected workers were able to black marketeer in a top secret extermination camp.  It seems every call girl and pimp in the district knew of the place.  Interesting, that despite two corroborating statements no one has interviewed the girls and pimps in question; this does suggest a different story.

It would seem that with normal protocols, trains did back down the spur line and drop a wagon or two off with people, pick up other wagons full of stones from the quarry and head out with wagons also full of people to other camps.  The reason why this is not recorded by the spy Zabecki is because the train did not return that way but carried on towards Siedlce as they did when the trains returned from Bialystok.

I am sure I did not mention that this geographical site was a "transit camp", though to be fair, every konzentrationslager and camp in the Reich were transit camps due to the fact that people arrived and left.

The train driver Henryk Gawkowski mentions he offloaded 18 thousand to this location. I guess he would not know how many were seconded to the quarry at TI. There seems to be little mention of other train drivers but one can assume there were more (without evidence).

Technically if a train of 30 wagons (3000 people) back in and unload 5 of these wagons, 500 people are dropped off at the destination, in this case TII, the other 2500 people are on the train moving off to another location when the train pulls away; perhaps some from the camp could have boarded the train.

This scenario of people moving from the camps was mentioned several times by Turnagain. Over ten thousand people leaving a small, approximately 16 hectare camp (400 m x 400 m) is significant and cannot be dismissed against some fictitious number that may have arrived as a percentage.

It is these arrivals that is the bone of contention here; being sent to a destination and disembarking is the scenario in Nessie mind, but it is quite possible that most people did not disembark the transport but carried on, like most passengers on trains every day.
As there were 5 camps possible in the Treblinka regions ( T1, TII, TIII, Malkinia & Kosow Podlaski), the train could have dropped some people off at all of the camps (except Czerwony bor). The Alfred Mierzejewski study of the Transports (390 at Treblinka) is dubious, conclusions based on faulty information, or lack of it. He is by default biased due to himself being Jewish; his facts may be correct but his conclusions likely to be biased, being an interested party and a stake holder.

Why is contemporaneous evidence directly relating to TII important to an issue this old?

Nessie has been asked to desist from mentioning transports and accommodation which has little to do with the current discussion.  In response he has posted some information in a relevant thread. A similar question could be asked, how 700+ thousand could disappear into the dirt (17 ha block) without any remaining evidence. Of course there are a few bone shards, all consistent with normal camp operations in those times, and of course euthanasia.

As you have indicated Turnagain, Nessie has not given anything new to advance the topic. He has said his bit and now should say nothing unless there is some new content. I have encouraged him to make a formal proposition to make his claims, which I am sure the moderator will accept; he obviously believes what he does, as we all do.

The fabrications of the eyewitnesses have been discussed at length on the old forum's so there is no need to rehash this all again, nor the impossibilities of exothermic cremations. You might remember that Nessie has brought up the issue of "spontaneous human combustion" and the "wick effect" which shows a great deal of misunderstanding of thermochemistry and other well founded scientific principles (thermochemistry is the study of the heat energy which is associated with chemical reactions and/or physical transformations).  Whether one thinks this kind of thinking is more aligned with voodooism than science or common sense may be warranted.

There are other issues with the Treblinka story which needs addressing. USHMM has written that:


However, Polish eyewitness Marian Olszuk says the following:
This information is a complete contradiction (like so many aspects of the mass murder story).

It is similar to the Sobibor story and maps of lager one, stated as being full of buildings, the site of workshops and living quarters.  In reality, that information was false as the following photo of lager one shows.


Of course this thread is not about Sobibor, however, the stories defy the information given by credible eyewitnesses and photographic evidence. Most of the stories are not fact; Marian Olszuk and the Sobibor Photos are absolute proof of this.

The thread title is merely Treblinka. Transports back out is a very important issue, which you are trying to deflect from, because there is no evidence of regular mass transports, which destroys claims TII was not a death camp and it served some other vague function.

Surely the dragline scenario has reached its end; anything Wiernik says is pure speculation and misinformation.   I am not sure if one can honestly discuss the reality of Treblinka using Wiernik in any way, shape or form.   People can read what this man has written for themselves and decide the reality; there could be a separate thread on this mans book and testimony as well as that of Rajchman