Jews as Forced Workers

This is what Hüntinger said:

A pdf link to Herbert's work for download was given. My work was used to set the scene as to the importance of the labour camp scene for those not familiar with the extent of the labour camps. The aim it seems is for interested readers to read the work or use it as a resource to discuss the implications. The only time that Ulrich mentions transport is: "On February 27, 1943, Jewish armament workers in Berlin were seized at their work places and taken to deportation trains".."all Jewish males aged fourteen to sixty had to perform forced labor in camps. It was the responsibility of the Jewish Council to seize and distribute this work force. Forced labor was later extended to Jewish women aged fourteen to sixty."

He then goes on to waffle about Jews being murdered in Auschwitz with absolutely no evidence, no references but a bold statement. I could not find the references either but it was hoped that something was not seen.

Off topic, but all Jews were complicit enough to face the same penalties under German Law. Could be a topic in its own right.


It is obvious that if one person arrived at a camp that housed up to thousands and thousand they all got there in the same manner, by train.


That is not the topic there is another thread to discuss Fplo. link


Tluscz did have a ghetto but it was also an important railway junction like Malkinia, and Barowiec, all mentioned on Fahrplananordnung as stops. Skarzysko-Kamienna and Czestochowa were both Hasag munition factories though there were other camps and ghettos as well in Czestochowa.
Tshenstochau concentration camp was established in April 1941, it was largely liquidated in September-October 1942..

Sonia “Sarah” Lipowicz.
On October 1, 1942, 1,000 able-bodied Jews were ordered to be deported to a forced labor camp in Skarzysko-Kamienna. My great-grandparents, uncles, and aunts were marched to the train station, where they were packed into sealed freight cars for the journey.
Sarah and her brother Meir were sent to Skarzysko-Kamienna, a forced labor camp operated by HASAG. During World War II, HASAG transformed into the primary arms supplier for the Nazis, with a plethora of factories scattered across German-occupied Europe. By 1942, the company predominantly employed Jewish forced laborers, with their wages paid directly to the SS.
In 1943, Sarah was relocated to another camp, possibly the HASAG labor camp next to the Kielce grenade factory.Later, Sarah was moved to the Częstochowa forced labor camp, the same camp my grandfather and her future husband, Israel Wolf Rotman, was imprisoned at. link

Despite all the nonsense in that testimony about Treblinka, just spouting what was thought, the common narrative. We have another train traveller who arrived by train at three factories mentioned in various Fahrplananordnung: Kielce, Skarzysko-Kamienna, Częstochowa aka Tshenstochau.

Here are those three stops mentioned on Fahrplananordnung 587/8


Here is a clear link between thousands of Jews put onto transports to Labour camps on the exact stops mentioned on Fplo.

Lets have a look at evidence for Skarzysko-Kamienna camp;

www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206028.PDF

"The camp belonged to the German Hasag concern. It was established in August 1942 and was liquidated on August 1, 1944. Altogether, 25,000--30,000 Jews were brought to Skarzysko-Kamienna, and between 18,000--23,000 perished there"

That is evidence of selected resettlement, not mass resettlement. When the camp closed;

"...the 6,000 that remained were sent to Buchenwald and other German camps."

More evidence of a massive decline in the Jewish population, at odds with revisionist claims of no mass murders and instead mass resettlement.

The only person you are fooling is yourself. There is corroborating witness, documentary and circumstantial evidence of transports to TII. It is dishonest of you to suggest it is only an assumption people were going there.

The links you are using to try and bolster your claim the transports ending at Treblinka were dropping people off at places en route, say the opposite.



She made an assumption that is backed by evidence. Her experience of being separated from family, sent to work and never seeing others again, is the experience of the vast majority of surviving Jews.



The camp population and death figures are derived from surviving Nazi records. The Nazis themselves recorded massive drops in the Jewish population and were open about their plan to only use some Jews as workers.

www.holocausthistoricalsociety.org.uk/contents/naziseasternempire/hasag.html

"Between 20,000 and 22,000 prisoners of different nationalities passed through the HASAG labour camps in Germany from their establishment until their final liquidation in April 1945"

Not all of them were Jewish. That is a tiny proportion of the number of Jews the Nazis had imprisoned in ghettos. It leaves millions you cannot account for, who arrived at certain camps and then disappear from the records. If they were all being used as forced labourers, where were they in 1945? You are using sources that evidence selections for workers, for whom records are kept and their movements and existence can be traced. You then ignore the millions whose existence ends long before 1945.

Show evidence of their Jewish population in 1944-5.

My prediction is you will dodge that, because you will not find any evidence of large Jewish populations, which ruins your belief the Jews were not gassed and instead millions were in forced labour camps in 1944-5.



What policy are you referring to?



The evidence comes from the witnesses to and records of the selection process, from documents such as the Korherr Report and Wannsee Minutes and from the closure of ghettos and camps, leaving only labour camps in Germany, operating by the end of 1944. You know about that evidence.



How many Jews were working for Hasag, Schmelt and Todt in 1945?

No one is claiming missing records equate to murder. When records are kept and end at a specific camp, that is circumstantial evidence those people's end happened at that camp. The circumstantial evidence is part of the evidence that proves gassings, not forced labour, for millions of Jews.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/concentration-camps-1942-45

"According to SS reports, there were more than 700,000 prisoners left in the camps in January 1945"

My own research into how many Jews were liberated in 1945;

rodoh.freeforums.net/thread/245/jews-liberated-end-war

"That is a total of 144,500 from the 7 largest camps."

Now, according to revisionists, there were millions of Jews being liberated in 1945. In this thread, the suggestion is that Jews were being used for forced labour, so what were the camp populations in 1945? I hve presented evidence they were in the hundreds of thousands, not the millions revisionists suggest.

No, I did that research in response to the revisionist claim, lead at the time by FP Berg, that the finding of more camps was evidence of millions of Jews in those camps in 1945. To prove millions of Jews in camps in 1945 needs evidence from witnesses, documents and the sites themselves. When the claim is made, they just walked away as the Nazis fled, that also needs evidence.

The evidence is in my favour. The Soviets finding mostly empty, abandoned camps. The evidence of Nazi forced marches west, so they could be liberated by the Allies. The few hundred thousand the Allies then liberated. The Nazis themselves reporting that there were only a few hundred thousand in camps in 1945. Then post-war, the failure of huge numbers of Jews returning to their homes, such as the Dutch who recorded only 18 out of 34,000 sent to Sobibor returned. Every single European government reported Jews failing to return home.

You have no evidence, from any source, of millions of Jews moving anywhere in 1945.

No one found millions of Jews, Soviets or Allies. That is circumstantial evidence which fits with the majority had been killed, not the revisionist claim of they were being used for forced labour.



You avoid giving figures. You dodged my question about Hasag, Schmelt and Todt, by missing out early 1945 and jumping to the post-war period.



Many did have homes to return to, especially in the west. If their home had been destroyed, they still had their home village, town or city to return to and reclaim jobs, businesses etc.