Request: a summary of the revisionist case (no strawman)

By 1945, there was already overwhelming evidence from eyewitnesses to mass murder, examinations of various sites, Nazi admissions, circumstantial evidence, motive, ability, opportunity and guilty conduct after the crime, that mass murder by gassing, shooting and neglect of the Jews, had taken place. Historians reached a consensus, that the Holocaust included mass murders, because of the evidence, which all pointed to mass gassings and shootings, along with the neglect, with no evidence of any alternative and certainly no evidence of millions of Jews surviving their time in Nazi captivity.

Certain academics have suggested or clearly stated they do not believe the evidence for mass gassings, but belief is not evidence and they have no evidence as to what did happen. They cannot evidence a process other than mass gassing, taking place inside the AR camp or A-B Kremas. They cannot evidence millions of Jews being liberated at the end of the war. Academics who fall for, or promote conspiracy theories, lose their academic credibility.



The liberation of the western camps, and the horrific neglect of Jewish prisoners, who were civilians, not soldiers, proved the contempt the Nazis had for the Jews. That evidences motive and opportunity, whereby the Nazis saw even Jewish civilians as the enemy, to be destroyed. Since the Nazis were capable of such neglect, the evidence of mass murder was obviously believable.

That the primary death camps were in the east is no shock. The Western Allies took a sceptical view of claims of death camps inside Germany and due to the lack of evidence, dismissed those claims as false. That the Soviets were poor at gathering and preserving evidence, is no surprise. They tried and ultimately failed a hoax about the Katyn Massacre, so it is obvious they were not organised enough to hoax multiple death camps that killed millions.

Then there is all the missing Jews. If millions of Jews had not been murdered, then where were they in 1945?



The 6 million figure was one of a number of figures used. It has merely become the most commonly used figure.

In 1945, the single largest liberation of a camp, was Bergen-Belsen, with c60,000 prisoners, not all of whom were Jewish. Only a few hundred thousand Jews were liberated by the western Allies, far fewer by the Soviets. Villages, towns and cities all over Europe, that had sizeable Jewish populations before the war, were left with few, if any. Instead, of dispossessed Jews returning home, their homes, businesses and property went mostly unclaimed.

Nazis admitted to murdering them.



Deniers argue they have mundane explanations, historians argue they have homicidal explanations. Deniers cannot evidence their explanations happening, historians can.



You have lied that there was zero verifiable evidence of gas chambers. There were multiple witnesses and corroborating evidence from other sources to prove mass gassings.

That alleged gas chambers at the camps in Germany were all investigated and dismissed, is evidence the early investigations were being thorough. Majdanek was an example of an existing gas chamber for delousing, that was also used for people.

That the original plans for the Kremas do not show gas chambers, corroborates other evidence they were converted during the construction period.

Note that you have failed to provide any evidence as to what did happen inside the Kremas. Instead, all you do is doubt they were used for gassings.



There is a Hitler Order for the euthanasia programme, which, when made public, had to be cancelled. The staff from that programme all went to work at the AR camps.

There is ample documentary evidence for the mass shootings in the east, whereby how many were shot is recorded. The records from the AR camps were destroyed. The totals at A-B can be discerned by subtracting the numbers selected to work from the arrivals.

That historians change their minds, as evidence is found, is normal for history. When a historian interprets history and then evidence is found that contradicts that interpretation, the historian will change position. That historians debate how the Final Solution was planned, is evidence of the robust study of the subject, and it contradicts denier suggestions of a conspiracy to hide what did happen and promote a false narrative. There is no document that uses the term Final Solution, that is at odds with the historical interpretation of that term.



That is a perfectly normal and to be expected progression. Early reports are confused, and mostly based on secondary sources. When the war ends, a more detailed examination and gathering of the evidence is now possible. Eyewintesses are traced and a much more accurate narrative is established. That the eyewintesses are flawed, is again, normal for eyewintess evidence. You constantly confuse eyewitness with non eyewitness evidence, which further increases your puzzlement. It is bizarre that you cannot understand an eyewintess is someone who saw what they speak about with their own eyes, and other witnesses, who did not see what they speak about, provide hearsay and circumstantial evidence.

What you call fatal flaws, are just normal, well known, often studied and understood flaws in witness evidence, due to memory failures and that we are all poor at estimating time, distance and sizes.



There was a lot of doubt that the otherwise civilised Germans were capable of mass murder, many of the earliest reports were dismissed. It is also not clear what the Allies could do about the death camps, other than to win the war as quickly as possible. There was minimal resistance by the Germans and Japanese to their identification, arrest and internment. The Allies told them they were going to be resettled in camps and that they would be safe. The Nazis said the same to the Jews and even as rumours spread of mass murder, enough people did not believe them, that the Nazis could continue with their policy. There were also enough Jews willing to cooperate with the Nazis, that they could maintain the charade of resettlement, until it was too late to do anythign about it.



Just because you do not believe it could have happened, does not therefore mean it did not happen. Site examinations of the AR camps have found large areas of cremated identifiable human remains and ash from wood and bodies. There is evidence of wood deliveries to the AR camps for construction, so it would nto be difficult to get wood delovered for the pyres.

Your arguments from incredulity are logical fallacies. You have no evidence as to what happened.

Nessie:



This is rich.  Here's what I actually said.  



I said they found no verifiable gas chambers.  Then Nessie misquotes and distorts my statement, then calls me a liar, and then says that there were "witnesses" that prove the gas chambers. Even if these witnesses of yours were legit, that still wouldn't be an example of a "verifiable gas chamber."  

You make yourself look stupid when you call people "liars" all the time simply for not agreeing with you.  Especially when you are manipulating and misquoting the statements of others in the same breath.  Did it ever occur you that maybe not everyone agrees with you and maybe your "overwhelming evidence" isn't as impressive as you think it is?  

Witnesses.  You post lists of names that you copied from someone else without any quotations or summaries and with zero analysis.  When you are challenged on the actual content of the testimonies you clam up or lapse into your usual routine.  

Archaeological reports?  You mean like that UNDERGRAD college paper you linked that one time that contained no archaeological data?

I will defend the gas chambers that subsequent enquiry has established to have existed, Mauthausen being one of them.