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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 9, 2022 18:41:18 GMT
It is physically impossible to fake the mass gassing and shooting of c5.5 million people by planting false evidence and hiding or destroying all the evidence of what did happen. Yet despite all this over whelming evidence for that claim, nothing is really put on the table to inspect, except adminicles and false testimony. Unless you or another H supremacist has something to add you are merely regurgitating. |
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Post by Gibson on Nov 10, 2022 6:41:20 GMT
It goes without saying that you think you are right. There's no need to announce this constantly. It is not me who thinks the methodology I use to assess evidence and determine what that evidence proves, it is all schools and university history departments. That is because when assessing a witness statement, you use personal opinion and argument from incredulity, rather than show an understanding of witness behaviour, known issues with witness evidence and how corroboration works. We discussed some specifics on that other forum, but you ignored much of what I explained, or showed you did not understand me. If you want, pick a specific example of evidence and I will go through it with you, showing you how to assess it. A specific example would be when I shared Hoess's account of how Krema I was converted into a gas chamber. I raised questions about whether it is realistic to think that they converted the room into a gas chamber immediately before the gassing, including drilling holes in the concrete roof, and also whether they would have been able to fit 900 Russians into the room. When I confronted you with this, you refused to answer whether you accepted it and lapsed back into declaring the holocaust to be true in general. It seems you are claiming that the extermination claims are not heavily dependent on testimonies and that physical and documentary evidence is very, very strong. However, if we focus on Krema I for a moment, the non-testimony evidence is actually limited to non-existent, even going by your side's sources. The physical structure was reconstructed after the war. There's no Prussian blue on the walls. The only incriminating feature of the room are the holes in the roof which were done after the war. You can say you believe the holes were there before but you can't say that's "strong" physical evidence. For documentary evidence, I am not aware of any gassing documents that are even claimed for this building, not even the indirect "criminal trace" sort of stuff. So then we are dependent almost entirely on testimony and Hoess is one of the main ones for Krema I, along with a few others such as Pery Broad and Filip Mueller. |
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Post by been_there on Nov 10, 2022 7:53:40 GMT
I use the methodology I [claim] was taught in history lessons at school, then at university and the police.... In trying to explain that simple, widely used methodology, I have clearly confused Gibson, who appears to have never had a history lesson, even at school. Thanks Gibson for your very welcome and excellent analysis of Nessieโs nonsensinsical arguing style. You may be interested in this topic thread where one of your unsuccesful attempts at educating Nessie at the Skeptics forum is included for analysis: rodoh.info/post/8235/threadI think it is obvious that anyone who can not accept (presumably because they cannot comprehend) the irrefutable logic of Gibsonโs analysis, clearly is not educated enough nor intelligent enough to gain entry to a University, nor could have passed a university history degree and could not have worked with the police. That would explain why a holocaust true-believer would need to discuss anonymously when they need not fear prosecution or persecution for that. |
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Post by been_there on Nov 10, 2022 8:01:04 GMT
..... 2. Implication and Commensurate Evidence"The Holocaust" is a bundle of things, some of which are historical and some of which dubious. The most extraordinary elements of it are precisely those that are based on the weakest evidence. If you claim millions killed in gas chambers, you need evidence of those gas chambers. Not people with tattoos. Not an Arbeit Macht Frei sign. Not pictures of ovens. Hence the importance of logical implication. If A, therefore B. Someone with a tattoo on their arm does not imply gas chambers. An Arbeit Macht Frei sign does not imply gas chambers. A tattoo and a sign together do not "converge" and imply gas chambers. If you have a witness who says there were gas chambers, that can be included as evidence but on its own it isn't convincing. The evidence also needs to be commensurate with what is alleged. Postwar statements are a very shaky basis for concluding that millions of people were killed. Usually something on the scale of the Holocaust would not need to rely heavily on that sort of evidence. Usually they are acknowledged in real time. Nessie will assert "overwhelming evidence" but he does not have much interest in discussing any of it in detail or making a strong, direct argument that compels us to say "therefore gas chambers," "therefore six million." .... As far as I know, no one has argued that a tattoo on an arm implies, or evidences gas chambers, certainly not me. Yet again, you have made a claim but you cannot link to what you claim actually happening. That is another deceit from Nessie. On the old RODOH I narrated exactly such an argument and Nessie responded to it. It occurred when I was first discovering for the first time the extent of all the blatant lies, legends, exaggerations and clear physical impossibilties in the holocaust mass-gassing mythology. I naturally mentioned what I was discovering to close work colleagues. One of whom must have passed this info on to a female work colleague I would not have shared this info with. During a tea-break she approached and without any preamble or subject introduction affirmed with absolute surety: โI know the holocaust is true because I saw a survivor who had a number tatooed on her armโ. |
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 10, 2022 10:02:18 GMT
It is physically impossible to fake the mass gassing and shooting of c5.5 million people by planting false evidence and hiding or destroying all the evidence of what did happen. Yet despite all this over whelming evidence for that claim, nothing is really put on the table to inspect, except adminicles and false testimony. Unless you or another H supremacist has something to add you are merely regurgitating. You are getting confused, there is not overwhelming evidence that c5.5 million Jews were not shot or gassed and instead the Nazis accommodated them until the end of the war and then there was a massive hoax to cover that up, which the Nazis cooperated with. There is no evidence that happened and indeed, it is physically impossible to have happened. |
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 10, 2022 10:17:23 GMT
It is not me who thinks the methodology I use to assess evidence and determine what that evidence proves, it is all schools and university history departments. That is because when assessing a witness statement, you use personal opinion and argument from incredulity, rather than show an understanding of witness behaviour, known issues with witness evidence and how corroboration works. We discussed some specifics on that other forum, but you ignored much of what I explained, or showed you did not understand me. If you want, pick a specific example of evidence and I will go through it with you, showing you how to assess it. A specific example would be when I shared Hoess's account of how Krema I was converted into a gas chamber. I raised questions about whether it is realistic to think that they converted the room into a gas chamber immediately before the gassing, including drilling holes in the concrete roof, and also whether they would have been able to fit 900 Russians into the room. When I confronted you with this, you refused to answer whether you accepted it and lapsed back into declaring the holocaust to be true in general. I do not remember you confronting me with that. Can you link to where it happened? I tend not to use Hoess testimony out of principle, because there is evidence of torture to get him to confess. I have also pointed out that his evidence is corroborated by other evidence. The description you quote of a gassing, is the same as many other descriptions, of people being told to undress, crammed into a converted room in a Krema and gassed whilst people outside could hear the distress and screaming. The lack of Prussian blue on the walls of Krema I can be explained by it not being used long enough for staining to appear and it being thoroughly cleaned to covert it to a bomb shelter. The physical evidence of the holes corroborates witnesses who say they were dug out in 1942 for gassings. Their present state is explained by the conversion to a bomb shelter. There is no evidence the roof of the Krema did not have holes in it in 1941. There is circumstantial evidence, from two 1941 documents from Topf & Sons, about how fast and how many bodies can be cremated, 60 in one hour. The physical and other evidence from Krema I fits logically with and corroborates the claims of the witnesses and the chronology of their claims. It is like people confessing to murder with a rather unusual murder weapon, that had been coverted for use for another purpose and hidden in plain sight. Everything fits together, logically, evidentially and chronologically. |
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 10, 2022 10:17:58 GMT
You are getting confused, there is not overwhelming evidence that c5.5 million Jews were not shot or gassed and instead the Nazis accommodated them until the end of the war and then there was a massive hoax to cover that up, which the Nazis cooperated with. There is no evidence that happened and indeed, it is physically impossible to have happened. The proof of this alleged event is on the shoulders of the claimants. To go into this rhetoric when it was shown that hundred of labour camps existed is asinine. |
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 10, 2022 10:19:14 GMT
I use the methodology I [claim] was taught in history lessons at school, then at university and the police.... In trying to explain that simple, widely used methodology, I have clearly confused Gibson, who appears to have never had a history lesson, even at school. Thanks Gibson for your very welcome and excellent analysis of Nessieโs nonsensinsical arguing style. You may be interested in this topic thread where one of your unsuccesful attempts at educating Nessie at the Skeptics forum is included for analysis: rodoh.info/post/8235/threadI think it is obvious that anyone who can not accept (presumably because they cannot comprehend) the irrefutable logic of Gibsonโs analysis, clearly is not educated enough nor intelligent enough to gain entry to a University, nor could have passed a university history degree and could not have worked with the police. That would explain why a holocaust true-believer would need to discuss anonymously when they need not fear prosecution or persecution for that. OK, so how is history taught at school and university? Describe the methodology used.
I guarantee you will dodge doing this!
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 10, 2022 10:23:19 GMT
As far as I know, no one has argued that a tattoo on an arm implies, or evidences gas chambers, certainly not me. Yet again, you have made a claim but you cannot link to what you claim actually happening. That is another deceit from Nessie. On the old RODOH I narrated exactly such an argument and Nessie responded to it. It occurred when I was first discovering for the first time the extent of all the blatant lies, legends, exaggerations and clear physical impossibilties in the holocaust mass-gassing mythology. I naturally mentioned what I was discovering to close work colleagues. One of whom must have passed this info on to a female work colleague I would not have shared this info with. During a tea-break she approached and without any preamble or subject introduction affirmed with absolute surety: โI know the holocaust is true because I saw a survivor who had a number tatooed on her armโ.
If that is the case, I responded to it then as I do now, the person you are referring to, like you, does not understand evidencing. She also does not say exactly what I was speaking about, that a tattoo evidences gas chambers, as she said she believes the Holocaust happened because she saw a tattoo. I am sure you can see the difference.
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 10, 2022 10:26:59 GMT
You are getting confused, there is not overwhelming evidence that c5.5 million Jews were not shot or gassed and instead the Nazis accommodated them until the end of the war and then there was a massive hoax to cover that up, which the Nazis cooperated with. There is no evidence that happened and indeed, it is physically impossible to have happened. The proof of this alleged event is on the shoulders of the claimants. To go into this rhetoric when it was shown that hundred of labour camps existed is asinine. Which means that since you have failed to evidence what did happen at the AR camps and inside the A-B Kremas and where all the people supposedly not gassed went, and along with all those supposedly not shot, were being accommodated and liberated in 1944 - 45, you have failed to prove your claims. You have also failed to evidence that all European universities and governments, along with many journalists have been successfully hoaxed, or are part of the hoax, to cover up what did happen. |
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 10, 2022 10:33:44 GMT
Which means that since you have failed to evidence what did happen at the AR camps and inside the A-B Kremas and where all the people supposedly not gassed went, and along with all those supposedly not shot, were being accommodated and liberated in 1944 - 45, you have failed to prove your claims. You have also failed to evidence that all European universities and governments, along with many journalists have been successfully hoaxed, or are part of the hoax, to cover up what did happen As mentioned it is the burden of proof on the claimants shoulders. I have shown that about 30 thousand labour camps for Jews existed. I have shown that all of the transport documents to Treblinka show that the transports stopped at Labour camp destinations en-route. The Universities et al do not have the same information we have. There are other political issues why they do not approach this subject. |
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 10, 2022 11:05:16 GMT
Which means that since you have failed to evidence what did happen at the AR camps and inside the A-B Kremas and where all the people supposedly not gassed went, and along with all those supposedly not shot, were being accommodated and liberated in 1944 - 45, you have failed to prove your claims. You have also failed to evidence that all European universities and governments, along with many journalists have been successfully hoaxed, or are part of the hoax, to cover up what did happen As mentioned it is the burden of proof on the claimants shoulders. I have shown that about 30 thousand labour camps for Jews existed. I have shown that all of the transport documents to Treblinka show that the transports stopped at Labour camp destinations en-route. The Universities et al do not have the same information we have. There are other political issues why they do not approach this subject. You have a hypothesis that trains dropped people off at the places where they went via, en route to the AR camps and that in 1945 there were 30,000 camps packed full of millions of Jews. You have no eyewitnesses, documents or other form of evidence that happened.
Evidence that the universities etc do not have the same information you have.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 10, 2022 11:09:51 GMT
You have a hypothesis that trains dropped people off at the places where they went via, en route to the AR camps and that in 1945 there were 30,000 camps packed full of millions of Jews. You have no eyewitnesses, documents or other form of evidence that happened. Not at all, the Labour camps existed, the evidence given. The Transport documents show the trains stopped for hours at each place. Eye witnesses have stated they traversed from one camp to another along the same route. There is no reason to suggest that those same transports did not go to Treblinka. |
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 10, 2022 11:37:50 GMT
You have a hypothesis that trains dropped people off at the places where they went via, en route to the AR camps and that in 1945 there were 30,000 camps packed full of millions of Jews. You have no eyewitnesses, documents or other form of evidence that happened. Not at all, the Labour camps existed, the evidence given. You have not shown any evidence they were all still open and full of prisoners at the end of the war. Where? Show me. Link to and quote the eyewitnesses. You have a history of making assertions, without showing the evidence. Remember, the burden of proof is on the claimant, so it is your job to show the evidence, even if you think it has been shown before. This forum has thousands of posts and many threads, you may think you have shown me the evidence, but I have not seen it. |
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Post by been_there on Nov 10, 2022 14:23:29 GMT
That is another deceit from Nessie. On the old RODOH I narrated exactly such an argument and Nessie responded to it. It occurred when I was first discovering for the first time the extent of all the blatant lies, legends, exaggerations and clear physical impossibilties in the holocaust mass-gassing mythology. I naturally mentioned what I was discovering to close work colleagues. One of whom must have passed this info on to a female work colleague I would not have shared this info with. During a tea-break she approached and without any preamble or subject introduction affirmed with absolute surety: โI know the holocaust is true because I saw a survivor who had a number tatooed on her armโ.
If that is the case, I responded to it then as I do now, the person you are referring to, like you, does not understand evidencing. She also does not say exactly what I was speaking about, that a tattoo evidences gas chambers, as she said she believes the Holocaust happened because she saw a tattoo. I am sure you can see the difference.
Oh boy! More moronic avoidance. ๐ I informed colleagues of discrepancies and impossibilities in the holocaust MASS GASSING narrative. She responded to that. |
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