Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 19, 2023 13:09:27 GMT
Evidence the Nazis going to the expense of providing new clothing and replacement items for the 1.27 million Jews who had arrived at the AR camps by the end of 1942. Despite this constant claim of 1.27 million people arriving at AR camps, there is no evidence of this. That is a lie. You know there is evidence, as you now go on to discuss that evidence!!!! The telegram references AR, on which Hofle worked. The AR camps were Belzec, TII, Sobibor and Lublin (Majdanek), which corresponds to the telegrams use of initials. The context is AR and all the evidence it was an operation to clear ghettos and steal the last of the Jews property. Evidence from other documents such as the Ganzenmuller letter, Stroop report and ghetto transport records of trains to the AR camps. Plus, there is all the witness evidence for the transports. Korherr was not part of AR. He was a statistician who was asked to compile a report on the decline in the Jewish population up to the end of 1942, and for that, he was provided with statistics from AR, but no details of what that operation actually involved. There is no evidence ghettos such as Warsaw were cleared to nearby camps in the General Government, such that millions of Jews were now living there. |
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Post by wheelbarrow on Mar 20, 2023 10:52:51 GMT
Hypotheticals is all you have. It is called evidence. Evidence sets the narrative. All you have are hypotheticals. Yes, which rebut your logical leaps. Very funny.
Topf & Sons evidence here; forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61650"Pruefer, 5 Mar., 1946... Question: What number of corpses could be burned at Auschwitz per hour in one crematorium? Answer: In one crematorium, which had five ovens or fifteen muffles, fifteen corpses were burned in one hour." "Schultze, 4 Mar., 1946... Within one hour fifteen corpses could be burned in one crematorium with five ovens." That was the design, in practice more were being cremated; So one corpse per muffle per hour "could be burned" and, according to you, this was "the design," but they were misused? Is it your claim is that the oven design was changed based on Sander's "new system" as discussed above? Or what? |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 20, 2023 15:27:13 GMT
Hypotheticals is all you have. It is called evidence. Evidence sets the narrative. All you have are hypotheticals. Yes, which rebut your logical leaps. The documentary evidence is of modifications to the Kremas, for undressing rooms, gas chambers and mass cremations. The witness evidence, from everyone who was inside the Kremas, was people were gassed and cremated. The circumstantial evidence of mass arrivals, selections and those not needed for work were sent to the Kremas. It is logical that adds up to proof of mass gassings. It is evidenced that Sander's new system was not introduced, and instead the existing design could cope with multiple cremations, all be it causing damage and the need for continual repairs. More detailed information here; phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/ |
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Post by wheelbarrow on Mar 20, 2023 17:50:18 GMT
Right, Fritz Sander's system wasn't. So "the design was changed" how? Is it your claim that Topf engineers endorsed using their product outside of normal operating parameters, exceeding the input rate of fifteen corpses being burned in fifteen muffles in one hour that two engineers told Soviet interrogators about?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 20, 2023 19:46:42 GMT
Right, Fritz Sander's system wasn't. So "the design was changed" how? Is it your claim that Topf engineers endorsed using their product outside of normal operating parameters, exceeding the input rate of fifteen corpses being burned in fifteen muffles in one hour that two engineers told Soviet interrogators about? "Report from Fritz Sanders of 14 September 1942 on "stuffing the individual muffles with several corpses" [Schรผle, Industrie und Holocaust, p. 443]"
Endorsed or not, he knew it was happening. There are witnesses who worked there, who report multiple cremations.
"We put five corpses on this: first we put two with the legs towards the furnace and the belly upwards, then two more the other way round but still with the belly upwards, and finally we put the fifth one with the legs towards the furnace and the back upwards. The arms of this last one hung down and seemed to embrace the other bodies below."
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Post by wheelbarrow on Mar 20, 2023 21:15:12 GMT
"The design was changed" not even necessarily by endorsement, but by camp custom? It's an interesting story, I'll tell you that. Fritz Sander comes up with a different design - but no, that was a red herring. "Nah, we'll just change it with our can-do attitude." Screw the manufacturer. Boy if that didn't work the Nazis would sure have some egg on their face, eh?
I'm sure Tauber's contribution to the folklore are interesting. So what engineer noted or knew about his specific procedure?
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Mar 21, 2023 1:17:36 GMT
The telegram references AR, on which Hofle worked. The AR camps were Belzec, TII, Sobibor and Lublin (Majdanek), which corresponds to the telegrams use of initials. The telegram was sent by SS Sturmbannfรผhrer Hermann Hรถfle on 11 January 1943. The camp name was Majdanek at this time. It was renamed by the Reich Security Main Office as Konzentrationslager Lublin on April 9, 1943, some months later, but the local Polish name remained more popular. There is no reason for Hรถfle to use the symbol L for the name of a camp that started with M. Quite a few thousand went to Bobruysk. The Germans had every right to execute every rebel in the Warsaw ghetto by law. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 21, 2023 16:27:35 GMT
"The design was changed" not even necessarily by endorsement, but by camp custom? It's an interesting story, I'll tell you that. Fritz Sander comes up with a different design - but no, that was a red herring. "Nah, we'll just change it with our can-do attitude." Screw the manufacturer. Boy if that didn't work the Nazis would sure have some egg on their face, eh? I'm sure Tauber's contribution to the folklore are interesting. So what engineer noted or knew about his specific procedure? I have already linked to Topf & Sons engineers showing they knew more than one body was being cremated at a time.
Your default position is typical denier. I show you evidence, you dismiss it, but you fail to evidence what did happen.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 21, 2023 16:30:50 GMT
The telegram references AR, on which Hofle worked. The AR camps were Belzec, TII, Sobibor and Lublin (Majdanek), which corresponds to the telegrams use of initials. The telegram was sent by SS Sturmbannfรผhrer Hermann Hรถfle on 11 January 1943. The camp name was Majdanek at this time. It was renamed by the Reich Security Main Office as Konzentrationslager Lublin on April 9, 1943, some months later, but the local Polish name remained more popular. There is no reason for Hรถfle to use the symbol L for the name of a camp that started with M. Except that M was one of the camps in L, that M was the largest and M was in L. There is no reason why Hofle would not use L, instead of M. There was no rebellion in the Warsaw ghetto for much of the time TII was open. A few thousand still leaves hundreds of thousands who you cannot account for. |
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Post by wheelbarrow on Mar 21, 2023 18:37:30 GMT
"The design was changed" not even necessarily by endorsement, but by camp custom? It's an interesting story, I'll tell you that. Fritz Sander comes up with a different design - but no, that was a red herring. "Nah, we'll just change it with our can-do attitude." Screw the manufacturer. Boy if that didn't work the Nazis would sure have some egg on their face, eh? I'm sure Tauber's contribution to the folklore are interesting. So what engineer noted or knew about his specific procedure? I have already linked to Topf & Sons engineers showing they knew more than one body was being cremated at a time.
Your default position is typical denier. I show you evidence, you dismiss it, but you fail to evidence what did happen.
The men were asked and answered directly and consistently what the cremation rate could be. You pasted it and therefore you read it. That's the evidence. It doesn't comport with your precious witnesses.
They were also aware that operators faced with mounting corpses tried to shove more corpses at a time, believing that will help. The engineers noted it because it's problematic; Sander even proposed a differently designed device less likely to be abused. |
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Mar 21, 2023 19:26:09 GMT
Except that M was one of the camps in L, that M was the largest and M was in L. There is no reason why Hofle would not use L, instead of M. In L, or in Lublin. Except that Lublin was a district and not an AR camp, the camp at the time was Majdanek. If you are correct about L being the district then the truth is the same for the other letters. I have said in the past that these were districts as there were a plethora of camps at each of these locations. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 22, 2023 9:24:46 GMT
This thread is about methodology I use to determine what happened. Please stick to the topic.
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Post by wheelbarrow on Mar 22, 2023 11:36:00 GMT
Methodology used: clicking links to see what online gurus say happened
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 22, 2023 15:26:45 GMT
Methodology used: clicking links to see what online gurus say happened Straw man, fictitious claim. Typically for a denier, you cannot evidence anything and instead you rely on fallacies. |
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Post by wheelbarrow on Mar 22, 2023 21:20:11 GMT
Nah, I'm good with the Topf engineers' expert testimony evidence.
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