The Holocaust in the Ukraine

I am trying to find the real story. I appreciate your efforts but there are other claims:

The Extraordinary State Commission states:


No mention of Jews at all.







These are high numbers of death, which means while the figure of 30 thousand Jews were shot, this leaves 95 thousand others meaning jews were not the prime target.

My analysis is backed up by the following: link



Yakov Abramovich Kaper said to a German court.


The figures range from 70 - 120 thousand. It seems that only the original shootings of Jews is mentioned and not the other 86 thousand. It is those that I am interested in; so it is clear that while Jews were singled out first they should really be clumped in with the others What would the reasons the Einsatz C have for this apparent action.

It is clear that reports show Jews were considered to be partisans and treated as such. The executions were security related.



The population of Kiev in 1941 was 900 thousand. Britannica states:

The same would have been true in the Ukraine, especially Kiev.

You conveniently forgot this part in your link:



20,000-30,000 total


Truth be told I thought that number is too low.

But Wikipedia also gives that same number (cited at the Jewish Virtual Library).



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_partisans

Wikipedia:



Then I remembered this:

The Holocaust in the Crimea and the North Caucasus:”

The author lists two partisan bands in the North Caucasus, one with 1724 members and the other 5814. Out of these two bands a total of 59 Jews served with the rest being Russian.

Page 375

Out of 7,538 partisans there were a total of..
59 Jews.

It isn’t a question of me wanting specific answers, just H O N E S T ones, that don’t repeatedly deny objective reality to buttress a cherished but irrational belief system.
That you don’t understand that is part of the problem.
That you repeatedly try to misrepresent that is also.

That linked article starts with a deeply ‘emotional’ jewish-victim promoting poem which sets the tone for all that follows. That you can’t concede that is emotional’ demonstrates you aren’t interested in discussing anything holy holocaust related honestly, objectively and reasonably. 

That is another snide remark that further denies what I am actually saying to you. Which is be honest and don’t deny reality. 

You were asked about locating precisely some sign of the alleged mass-grave. Here is the title of the yad vashem article you gave in reply:

“Commemoration of the victims of Babi Yar”.

“Commemoration”? That IS obviously NOT how an objective, unemotional, unbiased, neutral, fact-based history would be titled. That you can’t concede that obvious fact demonstrates denial. A blindspot that you have.

Is the chief Rabbi a Hindu?
Can a pregnant woman be a virgin?

These questions have only one correct answer. Can you understand that?
You were asked if you really couldn’t concede that this Babi Yar article was emotional in the same way someone would ask a delusional person if they really couldn’t concede the Chief Rabbi isn’t a Hindu. It was to check your grasp of reality concerning the Babi Yar narrative.

That link you gave following questions on mass-grave location was to a ‘commemorative’ article on Babi Yar that begins with a poem. THIS highly emotional poem from Boris Polevoy talking about his feelings, his “horror” and his imaginings. Is fear and horror discussing emotions? You weren’t able to answer that honestly and correctly. Deal with it.

What have Egypt, Dreyfus, crucifixion and Philistines got to do with an unemotional, objective fact-based history of Babi Yar?

How is someone’s fear and sense of horror answering the location of the alleged mass-grave?

The article later has this quote from 1959:
Hmmm? The “ greatest tragedy”? The “greatest”” Really?
 Again another proof that this is a highly emotionalised account.  

So your reply shows you were unable to answer honestly and correctly. Do you understand yet?

History is about finding out what happened. Concluding that there were no massacres at Babi Yar does not evidence what happened.

The Soviets were not interested in what had happened to the Jews. Anyone who came under their power, was considered Soviet. The Jews of Kiev were Soviets. The Nazis regarded the Jews as separate in a way the Soviets did not. That is why a Soviet report will not necessarily mention it was Jews killed, but the Nazi reports would separate Jews killed from other groups, such as Partisans and Communists.