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Post by jeff8675309 on Oct 14, 2022 0:36:21 GMT
I consider this in the nature of a request to help some members with their research. Nazgûl and I just finished a discussion about certain massacres in Vinnitsa. I mentioned a rather infamous picture but didn’t specify that I meant “The Last Jew in Vinnitsa.” Nazgûl brought up an NKVD massacre during the Great Purge. This is certainly valid, however I said “picture” and AFAIK the NKVD didn’t take pictures of those actions. I may be wrong and if someone does have pictures then I certainly stand corrected. In any case I actually referred to this: rarehistoricalphotos.com/last-jew-vinnitsa-1941/This is a particularly striking picture. The man getting ready to die looks stunned and dazed at what is getting ready to happen to him. When I see these pictures I can’t help but think what must be going through their mind. There are some other pictures linked to this action. Unfortunately the links are dead but the pictures are 1.1.18 and 1.1.19: holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/03/photographic-documentation-of-nazi.htmlThere may be an Einsatzgruppen Report covering this…I think I recall something about it…but I can’t think of it right now. When I get a moment I’ll go digging around and post it here. At various times people came forward to say that the shooter is a relative. From The Ravine, Wendy Lower: In 1961, a middle-aged German woman was at her neighborhood beauty parlor in Hanover, sitting under a dryer and turning the pages of an illustrated magazine. One article caught her attention. It was an essay on the mass shootings of the Jews in Ukraine. It featured a black-and-white wartime photograph with this caption: “The last Jew in Vinnytsia.” There on the page, a gaunt Jewish man in a crumpled suit coat kneels before a corpse-filled pit; he faces the camera. A crowd of smiling German men, wearing uniforms indicating that they are members of various Nazi forces surround the man. One officer stands directly behind him, posing casually. His SS jacket is unbuttoned, one hand is on his hip, and the other grips a gun pointed at the back of the Jewish man’s neck. The Hausfrau holding the magazine could not believe her eyes. The killer pointing the gun was her husband. Could she live with the knowledge that she had married a murderer? She kept examining her husband’s wartime face close up. It showed no emotion. “Maybe he had shot hundreds in cold blood. Maybe he did so voluntarily.” She went home to confront him, but he had already fled. In any case I hope this helps with any research that any member is working on. If I find that report I’ll post it here.
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Post by been_there on Oct 14, 2022 7:20:34 GMT
...In 1961, a middle-aged German woman was at her neighborhood beauty parlor in Hanover, sitting under a dryer and turning the pages of an illustrated magazine. One article caught her attention. It was an essay on the mass shootings of the Jews in Ukraine. It featured a black-and-white wartime photograph with this caption: “The last Jew in Vinnytsia.” There on the page, a gaunt Jewish man in a crumpled suit coat kneels before a corpse-filled pit; he faces the camera. A crowd of smiling German men, wearing uniforms indicating that they are members of various Nazi forces surround the man. One officer stands directly behind him, posing casually. His SS jacket is unbuttoned, one hand is on his hip, and the other grips a gun pointed at the back of the Jewish man’s neck. The Hausfrau holding the magazine could not believe her eyes. The killer pointing the gun was her husband. Could she live with the knowledge that she had married a murderer? She kept examining her husband’s wartime face close up. It showed no emotion. “Maybe he had shot hundreds in cold blood. Maybe he did so voluntarily.” She went home to confront him, but he had already fled. This is rather obviously emotionalised, journalistic nonsense designed to promote the racist cult of Jooish, special victimhood. It is an industry! The holyhoax industry! Wake up, Jeff! Millions of men killed other people during that war!!! Many thousands of men killed civilian non-combatants. Journalists don’t refer to their own countrymen as “murderers” merely because of patriotic, nationalist conditioning. I had a maths teacher at school who murdered hundreds of thousands of German elderly, women and children. He was proud of it. He had medals for it which he wore proudly every November. He very occassionally related incidents during lessons. He had flown in Wellington bombers. What he didn’t relate was that he had participated in “murdering” hundreds of thousands of German civilians by either burning them alive, asphyxiating them, blowing them to bits or by crushing them to death under falling masonry! The husband of a friend of mine surprised me one Saturday morning at breakfast after I had stayed the night, by mentioning his war experiences. What had been surprising was the demonic look his expression took as he gleefully related how he had killed (“murdered”) two Japanese soldiers at close range in Malaya. They had cycled round a corner of a narrow track between the paddy fields where he was sitting by an armoured car. They quickly dismounted and tried to turn the bicycles around but he jumped up onto the armoured vehicle and shot them to pieces with the mounted bren gun. He clearly delighted in remembering the incident. Which as a young man I found quite disturbing. Etc., etc. Then the idea that because a man’s wife had seen a photograph in a magazine while at the hairdresser, he telepathically knew it and so “fled”, is utter nonsense. How did he know she had seen the photo? Even if he was telepathic, why would he flee? Couldn’t he reason with her, explain the circumstances, request her silence, etc., etc. Was there really no alternative but to pack his bags and “flee” into the unknown and attempted anonymity??!?!? How would he do that? Where would he go? What about his house ownership, his bank account, his children, etc? Seriously, ONLY deluded people of low intelligence would know about all the facts and flaws in the holyhoax mythology that revisionism has revealed and yet would still post holyhoax nonsense like this as a serious topic for discussion. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
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Post by been_there on Oct 14, 2022 7:47:31 GMT
This is a particularly striking picture. ...When I see these pictures I can’t help but think what must be going through their mind. From The Ravine, Wendy Lower: ...a black-and-white wartime photograph ...[shows] a crowd of smiling German men, wearing uniforms indicating that they are members of various Nazi forces surround the man.” Questions for Jeff: 1. where are the “crowd of smiling men” that were described? 2. How is it known they are all ‘German’?
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on Oct 14, 2022 7:51:43 GMT
In any case I hope this helps with any research that any member is working on. If I find that report I’ll post it here. Thank you Jeff, the idea is to let people form their own conclusions, perhaps change. That is intellectual honesty and the willingness to accept that some preconceptions need addressing with greater understanding. All the murders were with a .22 calibre round accessible to the NKVD and not German troops.
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Post by jeff8675309 on Oct 14, 2022 14:15:02 GMT
In any case I hope this helps with any research that any member is working on. If I find that report I’ll post it here. Thank you Jeff, the idea is to let people form their own conclusions, perhaps change. That is intellectual honesty and the willingness to accept that some preconceptions need addressing with greater understanding. All the murders were with a .22 calibre round accessible to the NKVD and not German troops. That’s nice but we are looking at a different set of mass murders committed by the Germans in 1941.
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Post by jeff8675309 on Oct 14, 2022 15:20:24 GMT
...In 1961, a middle-aged German woman was at her neighborhood beauty parlor in Hanover, sitting under a dryer and turning the pages of an illustrated magazine. One article caught her attention. It was an essay on the mass shootings of the Jews in Ukraine. It featured a black-and-white wartime photograph with this caption: “The last Jew in Vinnytsia.” There on the page, a gaunt Jewish man in a crumpled suit coat kneels before a corpse-filled pit; he faces the camera. A crowd of smiling German men, wearing uniforms indicating that they are members of various Nazi forces surround the man. One officer stands directly behind him, posing casually. His SS jacket is unbuttoned, one hand is on his hip, and the other grips a gun pointed at the back of the Jewish man’s neck. The Hausfrau holding the magazine could not believe her eyes. The killer pointing the gun was her husband. Could she live with the knowledge that she had married a murderer? She kept examining her husband’s wartime face close up. It showed no emotion. “Maybe he had shot hundreds in cold blood. Maybe he did so voluntarily.” She went home to confront him, but he had already fled. This is rather obviously emotionalised, journalistic nonsense designed to promote the racist cult of Jooish, special victimhood. That’s actually spelled “Jewish.” It is? I haven’t had any caffeine yet so it’s gonna be a bit. It was a nationally published magazine. So instead of ESP I suggest he either saw it or was warned by someone who had seen it and recognized him. This was not an uncommon occurrence in West Germany in the 1960’s, men who served with each other warning each other. IDK, been-there. As I mentioned there were a few of these types of stories and Lower gave an example of one. So it could be apocryphal. Or this is what happened. I gave it as an example. I went ahead and deleted the overly emotional irrelevant twaddle. You can save us both the effort by not going into hysterics and ranting about the picture.
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Post by been_there on Oct 14, 2022 16:09:31 GMT
This is rather obviously emotionalised, journalistic nonsense designed to promote the racist cult of Jooish, special victimhood. It is an industry! The holyhoax industry!
Wake up, Jeff!It was a nationally published magazine. So instead of ESP I suggest he either saw it or was warned by someone who had seen it and recognized him. This was not an uncommon occurrence in West Germany in the 1960’s, men who served with each other warning each other. IDK, been-there. As I mentioned there were a few of these types of stories and Lower gave an example of one. So it could be apocryphal. Or this is what happened. I gave it as an example. Hmmm? You think it just might be apocryphal. Well done. That photo was taken approximately 20 years before it was published in the German magazine and before the woman saw it. The likelihood of a positive, definite identification from associates, friends and society in general seems far-fetched to me. We just have to think it through instead of gullibly and obediently accepting and believing. Imagine a group photo with you appearing in it when you were in your early twenties — and not particularly sharply — being published when you are now in your forties. Can you imagine that? You perhaps know what it is like to be shown a group photo from twenty years before and had to struggle to recognise even yourself, let alone recognise close friends. It gets harder if everyone all has identical uniforms and haircuts (e.g. school photos). I suggest it would have been the same here. Its a guy in uniform with glasses. So no need to “flee”. That could have been anyone. And anyway... are you going to answer where the “crowd of smiling Germans” is in that photo? And how is it known they are all Germans? Or do you admit that was a clear lie coupled with a racist assumption? Errm... How are you coping with these specific questions. Is this too much “emotional, irrelevant twaddle” for ya? 😎
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Post by jeff8675309 on Oct 17, 2022 17:21:20 GMT
Hmmm? You think it just might be apocryphal. Well done. Why thank you. Well, you know what they say about opinions. Or alternatively we can remember that identifications of those involved in atrocities did happen. What we don’t know is how long this man and woman were married. So if they got married after the war he was still young enough to for her to remember what he looked like during this time period. Or perhaps they were married before the war and he simply never told her what he did. Those are equally as plausible. Or perhaps she saw pictures of him when he was younger at some point. You gotta expand your mind, been-there. It helps not to get all emotional and up in your feelings. They all look pretty serious to me. The killer is identified as a member of the Einsatzgruppen, the men around him are identified as Waffen SS and members of the Reich Labor Service. Someone seems upset. Do you find this picture upsetting? Why is this a racist assumption?
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Post by been_there on Oct 17, 2022 18:49:23 GMT
They all look pretty serious to me. The killer is identified as a member of the Einsatzgruppen, the men around him are identified as Waffen SS and members of the Reich Labor Service. Why is this a racist assumption? Think it through... Try and think it through, on your own.
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Post by jeff8675309 on Oct 17, 2022 20:10:54 GMT
They all look pretty serious to me. The killer is identified as a member of the Einsatzgruppen, the men around him are identified as Waffen SS and members of the Reich Labor Service. Why is this a racist assumption? Think it through... Try and think it through, on your own. It’s racist to point out that Germans murdered Jews during WW II? It’s racist to examine photos of these murders? Been-there, you really need to stop getting so emotional about such things. They happened.
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on Oct 17, 2022 20:13:31 GMT
Think it through... Try and think it through, on your own. It’s racist to point out that Germans murdered Jews during WW II? It’s racist to examine photos of these murders? Been-there, you really need to stop getting so emotional about such things. They happened. Germans were murdered by Jews and their allies as well. When you align yourself with the Red army there were consequences for all.
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Post by jeff8675309 on Oct 17, 2022 23:03:11 GMT
It’s racist to point out that Germans murdered Jews during WW II? It’s racist to examine photos of these murders? Been-there, you really need to stop getting so emotional about such things. They happened. Germans were murdered by Jews and their allies as well. When you align yourself with the Red army there were consequences for all. This person they are murdering aligned himself with the Red Army?
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on Oct 18, 2022 0:31:01 GMT
This person they are murdering aligned himself with the Red Army? I had to check that I was not replying to Nessie. You have no idea who this person was or the possible crimes he committed. The Einsatz were dealing with civilians combatants and their helpers, including those designated for retribution. Over a million soldiers were murdered by these civilian partisans and so they had to be dealt with appropriately. The Red Army seconded all people in those lands to fight and disrupt. The German army always had a policy of summary execution of civilian combatants and spies; in a war of annihilation there is no room for sympathy.
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Post by jeff8675309 on Oct 18, 2022 3:20:49 GMT
This person they are murdering aligned himself with the Red Army? I had to check that I was not replying to Nessie. You have no idea who this person was or the possible crimes he committed. The Einsatz were dealing with civilians combatants and their helpers, including those designated for retribution. Over a million soldiers were murdered by these civilian partisans and so they had to be dealt with appropriately. The Red Army seconded all people in those lands to fight and disrupt. The German army always had a policy of summary execution of civilian combatants and spies; in a war of annihilation there is no room for sympathy. So then you support genocide.
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on Oct 18, 2022 3:36:10 GMT
If you bothered to read posts on here, you would understand quite quickly that genocide did occur which is not equated with the holocaust claims. Genocide can mean mass murder but it can also mean segregation of sexes to prevent breeding; this certainly happened. In the East the Russians fared worse than the Jews: What is not taken into account is that in all populations of Europe during those times there was a birth rate, but not for the chosen ones. It is estimated their attrition rate was similar to the Philippines in the 70s due to varying factors excluding murder. The attrition rate by natural mortality would account for 2.2 million; the birth rate was negligible. Due to partisan activity that resulted in the deaths of over a million Heer soldiers and SS men, I think the retaliation and reprisals were proportionate. Big boys games, big boys rules.
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