Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 13, 2022 15:25:49 GMT
I have looked and completed numerous searches online... I have found no evidence of the theft of that property... Holy moly! ๐ฎ Your disconnect from reality never ceases to amaze. ๐คฆโโ๏ธ You werenโt asked to look for and find โtheft of propertyโ. Thus proving your cultish belief is still preventing you from comprehending an extremely simple challenge. Learn from this! Your cultish belief-system is blinding you to objective reality. No wonder you canโt understand history properly. Like all holyhoax cult-believers you are starting from an unquestionable a priori position and conclusion the whole time. I am trying to help you to see that. You are looking for any excuse to make the thread about personal comment. Try sticking to the topic and not concentrating so much on your opponent. You asked "What happened to the personal possessions...?" One obvious answer is that they were stolen from the internees and sold, with the internees being left only with prison uniform. That is what happened to many of the Jews when they arrived for the first time at Nazi camps, something you are dodging. You asked "...what was the procedure for handling their personal possessions that they had with them?". One obvious answer is that the procedure was to seize all property on arrival, search the prisoners for any items they had tried to hide, issue them with prison uniform and then sort and sell the possessions. The procedure for the AR camps was to strip the people naked, steal everything they owned, shave their hair, sell that, kill them and then remove their gold teeth and sell that. Of course you do not want to discuss that. It is normal for any prison to search the person and their property, to take a note of the property, let the prisoner keep some items, seize and store others and issue them with a uniform. It is likely that there was a similar procedure for internees, but they were allowed to keep their clothing and they were not issued with a uniform. How about you answer your own question and the questions I have asked about the Jews arriving at camps?
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Oct 14, 2022 1:18:50 GMT
The UK treated the interned differently from the US Germans and Japanese, where the lot were collared and all property confiscated. The US camps were konzentrationslager by a different name. Policies in the UK regarding the property of those interned in the first world war; it is likely the same law would be followed some twenty years later at the outbreak of hostilities. At the outbreak of war in the UK, enemy aliens had real and estimated property holdings of ยฃ100 million (ยฃ7.265 billion today or $8.2 billion). After internment private property was not confiscated, but many of the businesses wholly or partly controlled by enemy aliens were liquidated and the portion of the realised assets due to them was vested in government-appointed custodians for the duration of the war. The remainder of the proceeds, after payment of debts, charges and expenses, was normally distributed among non-enemy shareholders and others with a financial entitlement. However, Partnerships between British subjects and enemy aliens were dissolved after the outbreak of war and enemy asset's subsequently vested in the custodians. The conditions of those interned in the UK were as bad as the Jews in the cattle cars heading East. linkIf one takes the time to read the following legal argument 1949: DISTRIBUTION OF GERMAN ENEMY PROPERTY BILL one may get a feel for the complexity. It is clear from this discussion that the British Government wanted to seize assets of the interned if they were German Nationals. All assets of those interned were held by a custodian; it is likely no German or Italian national would have their property returned or any assets unless the transactions were made prior to the Axis pact; the same is true of the Austrians who made transactions prior to the Anschluss. Recently the "Enemy Property Claims Assessment Panel" (EPCAP) has been compensating individuals whose assets were confiscated by the UK government where they had suffered Nazi persecution. This no doubt affect those interned, especially Jews who were interned as enemy aliens. linkAfter World War II, according to the Potsdam conference held between July 17 and August 2, 1945, Germany was to pay the Allies US$1 Trillion mainly in machinery and manufacturing plants. Sequestering property and money of internees who were not refugees was part and parcel of this.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 14, 2022 7:59:03 GMT
It would appear that the Dunera was an exception rather than the rule;
"The conditions on the Dunera and the abuse of the internees are a matter of record. Several of the crew were court-martialled after a journey of 57 days with 2,740 men incarcerated in a vessel meant for 1,600 troops"
I am not surprised that there were times internees were badly treated and had their property stolen. But there is still no evidence of state approved systematic theft of property and personal possessions on arrival at the internee camps.
If a German who was in business with a Brit, lost their part of the business, well, there was a war on and that is not too dissimilar to what is happening to Russians at the moment.
I see there is still total avoidance of discussing what the Nazis were up to!
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Oct 14, 2022 8:04:58 GMT
It would appear that the Dunera was an exception rather than the rule; "The conditions on the Dunera and the abuse of the internees are a matter of record. Several of the crew were court-martialled after a journey of 57 days with 2,740 men incarcerated in a vessel meant for 1,600 troops" I am not surprised that there were times internees were badly treated and had their property stolen. But there is still no evidence of state approved systematic theft of property and personal possessions on arrival at the internee camps. If a German who was in business with a Brit, lost their part of the business, well, there was a war on and that is not too dissimilar to what is happening to Russians at the moment. I see there is still total avoidance of discussing what the Nazis were up to! I do not see how skid stained underpants you claim were integral to mass murder were correlated. Scotsmen do not wear undies so I guess you may not understand the hygiene related issues.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 14, 2022 8:13:08 GMT
It would appear that the Dunera was an exception rather than the rule; "The conditions on the Dunera and the abuse of the internees are a matter of record. Several of the crew were court-martialled after a journey of 57 days with 2,740 men incarcerated in a vessel meant for 1,600 troops" I am not surprised that there were times internees were badly treated and had their property stolen. But there is still no evidence of state approved systematic theft of property and personal possessions on arrival at the internee camps. If a German who was in business with a Brit, lost their part of the business, well, there was a war on and that is not too dissimilar to what is happening to Russians at the moment. I see there is still total avoidance of discussing what the Nazis were up to! I do not see how skid stained underpants you claim were integral to mass murder were correlated. Scotsmen do not wear undies so I guess you may not understand the hygiene related issues. That the Nazis were recording stealing large quantities of underwear, walking sticks, glasses and gold from teeth logically fits with the evidence of mass murder.
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Oct 14, 2022 8:38:26 GMT
I do not see how skid stained underpants you claim were integral to mass murder were correlated. Scotsmen do not wear undies so I guess you may not understand the hygiene related issues. That the Nazis were recording stealing large quantities of underwear, walking sticks, glasses and gold from teeth logically fits with the evidence of mass murder. Useless items of confiscation that were burned. Anything else jew?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 14, 2022 8:50:48 GMT
That the Nazis were recording stealing large quantities of underwear, walking sticks, glasses and gold from teeth logically fits with the evidence of mass murder. Useless items of confiscation that were burned. Anything else jew? Evidence it was all burned. Frank recorded an inventory of that property, which was sold to help finance the war.
I am not Jewish, so you can pack in your reference to that.
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Oct 14, 2022 9:21:11 GMT
Useless items of confiscation that were burned. Anything else jew? Evidence it was all burned. Frank recorded an inventory of that property, which was sold to help finance the war.
I am not Jewish, so you can pack in your reference to that.
Explain how skid marked undies can finance as war.
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Post by been_there on Oct 14, 2022 11:57:14 GMT
Holy moly! ๐ฎ Your disconnect from reality never ceases to amaze. ๐คฆโโ๏ธ You werenโt asked to look for and find โtheft of propertyโ. Thus proving your cultish belief is still preventing you from comprehending an extremely simple challenge. Learn from this! Your cultish belief-system is blinding you to objective reality. No wonder you canโt understand history properly. Like all holyhoax cult-believers you are starting from an unquestionable a priori position and conclusion the whole time. I am trying to help you to see that. ...One obvious answer is that they were stolen from the internees and sold,... You asked "...what was the procedure for handling their personal possessions that they had with them?". One obvious answer is that the procedure was to seize all property on arrival, search the prisoners for any items they had tried to hide, issue them with prison uniform and then sort and sell the possessions. [Oden and Neptune have mercy!! ๐คฆโโ๏ธ]You were challenged to do research and present authoritative, verifiable sources for any info you posted. NOT GUESS! OBVIOUSLY not guess. [Sheesh!? ๐๐คช
Stop guessing. Relinquish your holyhoax, true-believer, cultish mindset briefly โ just for a short period โ and do some open-minded, unbiased, genuine RESEARCH. What is so difficult about that for you? Why canโt you understand and meet such an extremely simple challenge? Is it not because you arenโt interested in analysing and discussing actual history but are ONLY interested in buttressing a flawed belief-system: viz. the holyhoax jew-genocide, mass-gassing mythology? Wow! You still donโt understand. ๐ฎ This is a challenge to YOU personally. As has already been explained, it is designed to get you to see your holyhoax narrative in its proper historical context. It is to demonstrate whether you are capable of doing and sharing research that doesnโt support your irrational, emotionally-held belief-system. You are proving that you canโt. Nazgul found and posted info and you delusionally only conceded you might โlikelyโ have been wrong when you previously made unsupported claims based on wilful ignorance. You still havenโt answered the challenge, you still havenโt acknowledged that, and yet you want to dodge it by posing questions to me to answer. That is a dishonest tactic.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 14, 2022 14:31:57 GMT
Evidence it was all burned. Frank recorded an inventory of that property, which was sold to help finance the war.
I am not Jewish, so you can pack in your reference to that.
Explain how skid marked undies can finance as war. August Frank reported that men's underwear was used for concentration camps inmates, soldiers and the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle, with all proceeds going to the Reich. Women's and children's underwear went to the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle, with any silk underwear going to the Ministry of Economics.
The money raised helped to finance the war, which Globocnik reported as "Wagons of clothing and underclothing: at RM 33,000.00 RM 10,461,000.00", so each wagon was RM33k and the total was RM10.5 million.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 14, 2022 14:52:15 GMT
...One obvious answer is that they were stolen from the internees and sold,... You asked "...what was the procedure for handling their personal possessions that they had with them?". One obvious answer is that the procedure was to seize all property on arrival, search the prisoners for any items they had tried to hide, issue them with prison uniform and then sort and sell the possessions. [Oden and Neptune have mercy!! ๐คฆโโ๏ธ]You were challenged to do research and present authoritative, verifiable sources for any info you posted. NOT GUESS! OBVIOUSLY not guess. [Sheesh!? ๐๐คชThe reason why you are asking me to do the work, is because you do not know how to. You spend far too much time breaking forum rules by concentrating on your opponent, rather than the argument. You dodge that the Nazis stole everything, including clothing, and gave the Jews prison uniform. You ignore the evidence of the Nazis selling the Jewish prisoner property. Obviously that mass theft is too uncomfortable for you and your desired beliefs. Surmising from the evidence, that internees were searched on arrival at the camps is not guessing. It is not guessing to show the evidence internees kept their clothing and possessions and were not issued uniform. I answered your questions. You flipped between property and possessions, which have different meanings, something you have failed to acknowledge. I produced an answer that Nazgul produced evidence that showed in may be wrong. However, on closer examination, his evidence was about the Americans in WWII and the Canadians in WWI, which is different from the evidence and what I had been discussing, about the British. Nazgul did produce a NYT article about the British, but I cannot access it and for some reason he ignored my questions about it and what it said. He then produced a newspaper article that described one instance of looting by the British, which resulted in those responsible being court-martialed. That obviously evidences it was not British policy to steal internee possessions. What property, such as housing and businesses the British took, is not yet clear. There is evidence that entirely foreign owned property and businesses were seized and that those with co-ownership with British people were put into the name of the British owner. You refuse to discuss Nazi actions, because they were different from the British, and it is clear they were stealing from the Jews, who they did not expect to make any future claim on that property. Because that is so uncomfortable for you, you pretend that your questions have not been answered. My challenge to you, to provide your answers has been ignored.
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Post by been_there on Oct 15, 2022 12:35:39 GMT
[Oden and Neptune have mercy!! ๐คฆโโ๏ธ] You were challenged to do research and present authoritative, verifiable sources for any info you posted. NOT GUESS! OBVIOUSLY not guess. [Sheesh!?] ๐๐คช Surmising from the evidence, that internees were searched on arrival at the camps is not guessing... ๐ฎ Wow! First, YES IT IS!!! And then... link to what evidence has been produced by you showing in this discussion that internees of the Allies were searched upon arrival at camps. You havenโt produced any! So whether surmising or guessing, this is just a dishonest semantic quibble concealing a deception about the lack of evidence you have produced. I.e. A brazen lie! ๐ฎ No, you never did. So... that is another brazen repeating of the same lie as above. That or literally insane self-delusion. No I did not. So another lie. Personal property and possessions obviously referred to the same thing. Anything from a hat to a microscope to a fryingpan can be personal property AND a personal possession. Obviously. Your lies are becoming increasingly desperate. THE REALITY: I always challenged you to answer what was the equivalent treatment of prisonersโ possession/property arrested for their ethnicity by the Allies! Do you understand yet: arrested and incarcerated BY THE ALLIES!! I never asked for what happened to property of prisoners of just the British and AFTER they were released. So that is a dishonest dodge from you. ๐ A pathetic and blatantly transparent semantic dodge. The same tactic as your dishonest semantic quibble between property and possessions, surmising and guessing.It is relentless denial, dishonesty, self-delusion and deception to avoid conceding error and ignorance. You were never asked about what happened to inmates of British camps AFTER their release. How many times will you attempt to slip in that lie?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 15, 2022 14:21:14 GMT
Surmising from the evidence, that internees were searched on arrival at the camps is not guessing... ๐ฎ Wow! First, YES IT IS!!! And then... link to what evidence has been produced by you showing in this discussion that internees of the Allies were searched upon arrival at camps. You havenโt produced any! So whether surmising or guessing, this is just a dishonest semantic quibble concealing a deception about the lack of evidence you have produced. I.e. A brazen lie! Think about it and then answer this question. Is there a prison in the world that does not search people who are to be kept there? Yes or no. So you keep on asserting, without any explanation. I answered you in the following posts; rodoh.freeforums.net/post/11961rodoh.freeforums.net/post/11966rodoh.freeforums.net/post/11975rodoh.freeforums.net/post/12003Explain why what I said was not an answer to your question. I explained how you flipped here; rodoh.freeforums.net/post/12005There would not have been an issue if you had said personal property, but you had not said that. On page 1 you said "find out what happened to the possessions of all or any of the people arrested, transported and then incarcerated in British and American concentration camps." On page 2 you said "You were challenged to research what happened to the property of similar incarcerations of people because of their ethnic origins." They are very open questions that do not define property or possessions and there is no indication you are only referring to when they were arrested and taken to the camps and not after their release. It is obvious that as the evidence is found and discussed, it is not looking good for you. The British and Americans did not steal internee personal possessions which they took to the camps, and when an instance of that did take place with the British, those involved were court-martialled. As for the property the internees left behind, the houses, businesses etc, there is evidence they were seized. As yet I cannot find what happened to internees released by the British by 1942 and whether they were able to return to the houses and businesses they left when they were interred. Meanwhile, you continue to dodge answering my questions about the Nazis theft of Jewish property and the procedure on arrival at Nazi camps for the Jews. Why is that? The obvious answer is it is because the Nazis were thieves and they stole everything.
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Post by been_there on Oct 15, 2022 17:36:20 GMT
๐ฎ Wow! First, YES IT IS!!! And then... link to what evidence has been produced by you showing in this discussion that internees of the Allies were searched upon arrival at camps. You havenโt produced any! So whether surmising or guessing, this is just a dishonest semantic quibble concealing a deception about the lack of evidence you have produced. I.e. A brazen lie! Think about it and then answer this question. Is there a prison in the world that does not search people who are to be kept there? Yes or no. What a crazy, moronic dodge!!!! ๐ฎ OF COURSE, YES!!!! That has been my point to you the whole time! My point has always been that. Jeez! Cโmon face it Nessie, you have been shown to be in error by both myself and Nazgul and are now dishonestly completely reversing your argument rather than honestly admitting that. I just explained EXACTLY that. So this is further proof you have a severe comprehension disability. Here it is again: THE REALITY: I always challenged you to answer what was the equivalent treatment of prisonersโ possession/property arrested for their ethnicity by the Allies! Do you understand yet: arrested and incarcerated BY THE ALLIES!! Not just the British. I never asked for what happened to property of prisoners of just the British and AFTER they were released. That is all that you provided reference to plus photos of British prisoners in their own clothes. I previously explained why neither answered the challenge. You were challenged to provide verifiable, authoritative references (not biased surmises or guesses) showing the procedure by the Allies!! And you have N E V E R done that. Do you understand now? If you still can not understand why you have never answered the challenge, then this is proof you are unable to discuss intelligently, reasonably and honestly.
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Agandaur
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Post by Agandaur on Oct 15, 2022 18:33:31 GMT
The British and Americans did not steal internee personal possessions which they took to the camps, and when an instance of that did take place with the British, those involved were court-martialled. Stick to one topic at a time instead of saying "you dodge this etc". The Nazgul mentioned several times of personal property being looted. Another point is that internment camps varied in treatment depending on location and classification of its subjects. In the UK those businesses of Germans etc who were of use to the crown were left alone, the rest went to a trustee. Private property was not touched but businesses were liquidated and assets sold. People were paid better than the locals which caused complaints. Many were also Jews from the Reich who were treated as bad by the British as by the Germans; they had nothing when they arrived and had nothing when released. Some were Nazi agents too btw. Class A internees were put in konzentrationslager on the Isle of Man.
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