Nessie
âď¸
đđđ§đđŤđđđ˘đĽđ˘đŹ đŽđąđˇđđąđśđ°đŽđđźđż
Posts: 5,773 
|
Post by Nessie on Oct 1, 2022 19:19:19 GMT
Trunagain has decided to troll threads by deliberately lying, so that the discussion grinds to a halt, as I try to correct his lies. He knows he is lying and I want to debate, and he has realised that if he lies, he avoids loosing debates. So this thread is where any post where he lies, will be moved to. Maybe then, he will get that if he wants to debate me, he has to stop lying.
|
|
Turnagain
âď¸
đđźđťđźđżđŽđđđ
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Oct 1, 2022 22:27:36 GMT
LOL! That's a good 'un, Nessie. Rajchman and Wiernik DID say that the dragline exhumed the bodies. Wiernik called the dragline both a machine and an excavator, not a dragline which is the proper term. I don't recall what Rajchman called it. I've said on numerous occasions that Wiernik called the dragline a "machine" and a "excavator".
The context was Nessie had claimed that the dragline only uncovered the graves but didn't exhume any bodies. He claimed that the sonderkommandos exhumed the cadavers and transported them to the crematory grates. I quoted Wiernik as saying that the dragline could lift up to 3,000 cadavers at once. Wiernik called the dragline both a machine and an excavator in his quote. He didn't call it a dragline, the proper term for it but Wiernik was talking about the M&H dragline.
Nessie had just been shown that a clamshell wouldn't be capable of exhuming whole bodies so was claiming that the clamshell equipped dragline hadn't engaged in exhuming the cadavers from the mass graves. Wiernik, of course, claimed that the dragline (excavator, seilbagger, whatever) did in fact exhume the cadavers. So did Rajchman. The notion of over 700,000 cadavers being mashed, sliced, diced, folded and spindled into a mass of blood, guts and bones before being placed on a grate made from railroad rails and cremated with essentially no fuel is beyond ludicrous.
Nessie is trying to hold on to the fiction that I called him a liar for calling the dragline an excavator. That is utter nonsense. I didn't call him a liar for calling the dragline an excavator or for any other name. I'm indifferent to whatever name Nessie wants to attach to the M&H dragline.
Nessie didn't get called a liar for saying that the M&H dragline was an excavator. He's perfectly welcome to call that piece of machinery what ever he likes. I called Nessie a liar for claiming that the dragline/excavator/whatever didn't exhume the cadavers from the mass graves.
|
|
Nessie
âď¸
đđđ§đđŤđđđ˘đĽđ˘đŹ đŽđąđˇđđąđśđ°đŽđđźđż
Posts: 5,773
|
Post by Nessie on Oct 2, 2022 7:32:29 GMT
I will go through the lies and why this post has been moved. LOL! That's a good 'un, Nessie. Rajchman and Wiernik DID say that the dragline exhumed the bodies. Lie, neither used the term dragline. It is being assumed they were describing a dragline, when they said excavator or machine. Lie, this is the exchange; I said "Excavators uncovered the corpses which were collected by Sonderkommandos." You replied "You lie. Both Wiernik and Rajchman said that the dragline exhumed the bodies" Lie, my reference to uncovering is about the excavators digging up the bodies from the graves. I quoted both Wiernik and Rajchman describing the excavator digging up the bodies from the graves and then Sonderkommados carried the bodies to and put them on the pyres; rodoh.freeforums.net/post/11762Uncovering, digging up, removing, however an exhumation is described, it is clear that the witnesses said the excavators were used for that and the workers were used to carry the bodies from the graves. |
|
Turnagain
âď¸
đđźđťđźđżđŽđđđ
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Oct 2, 2022 8:07:56 GMT
Nazgul wrote:
Yep, Nessie has lost the debate and is deliberately curtailing it. He knows that I don't give one shrill hoot in hell about what he calls the M&H dragline. I called him a liar when he attempted to claim that the whatever you want to call it only uncovered the graves and didn't actually exhume the cadavers. The dragline uncovered the mass graves and the sonderkommandos performed the exhumations.
All of Nessie's smoke and horse frocky about what he called an excavator is just him trying to cover up his claim that the dragline had no part in exhuming the cadavers. Nessie lied and got called on it and is now trying to hide his lie. Same as he got called on his claim that Gley's tale of the crematory grate was corroborated by other witnesses. Same as his lie of omission concerning the academics who DON'T agree with the conventional narrative of the holyhoax.
|
|
Nessie
âď¸
đđđ§đđŤđđđ˘đĽđ˘đŹ đŽđąđˇđđąđśđ°đŽđđźđż
Posts: 5,773
|
Post by Nessie on Oct 2, 2022 8:22:54 GMT
Nazgul wrote: Yep, Nessie has lost the debate and is deliberately curtailing it. He knows that I don't give one shrill hoot in hell about what he calls the M&H dragline. I called him a liar when he attempted to claim that the whatever you want to call it only uncovered the graves and didn't actually exhume the cadavers. The dragline uncovered the mass graves and the sonderkommandos performed the exhumations. All of Nessie's smoke and horse frocky about what he called an excavator is just him trying to cover up his claim that the dragline had no part in exhuming the cadavers. Nessie lied and got called on it and is now trying to hide his lie. Same as he got called on his claim that Gley's tale of the crematory grate was corroborated by other witnesses. Same as his lie of omission concerning the academics who DON'T agree with the conventional narrative of the holyhoax.
Uncovering the graves is just another way to describe the digging up of the bodies from the graves. You have latched onto one word in a weirdly obsessive way. I have quoted what the witnesses said about how the excavators were used to uncover/dig up the bodies from the graves and then the Sonderkommados gathered the bodies and took them to be cremated. How do you exhume bodies, without uncovering them?
I linked you to and quoted a Nazi who corroborates Gley, who is also corroborated by other witnesses who describe a pyres where bodies are piled on a grate over wood. You ignored that and lied I was ignoring you.
The context of my claim about the academics was that the evidence for gassings has survived critical examination for decades by academics. Just because some denier academics disagree, does not therefore mean the evidence has failed and we now know what did happen.
Lying about and misrepresenting what has been said has meant debate with you is virtually pointless.
|
|
Turnagain
âď¸
đđźđťđźđżđŽđđđ
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Oct 2, 2022 9:23:26 GMT
Wiernik and Rajchman both described impossibilities. Exhuming cadavers with a a clamshell isn't going to result in whole cadavers being placed on the crematory grates. Using a clamshell to exhume the cadavers will result in a mash-up of mangled cadavers. I posted two different videos of clamshell equipped Menck and Hambrock draglines showing just how that would happen. You then attempted to claim that the dragline/excavator/clamshell or whatever name you can dream up for a dragline wasn't used to exhume the cadavers.
Now you're claiming that Wiernik and Rajchman told the truth about how the dragline (excavator, clamshell, etc.) exhumed the cadavers from the mass graves. Wiernik and Rajchman both lied about seeing a clamshell exhuming the cadavers. That over 700,000 cadavers were first chopped and mangled into a bloody stew of meat, blood and guts before being placed on a grate constructed from railroad rails is utterly ludicrous. It has absolutely nothing to do with what names are attached to the draglines.
|
|
Nessie
âď¸
đđđ§đđŤđđđ˘đĽđ˘đŹ đŽđąđˇđđąđśđ°đŽđđźđż
Posts: 5,773
|
Post by Nessie on Oct 2, 2022 14:02:27 GMT
Wiernik and Rajchman both described impossibilities. Exhuming cadavers with a a clamshell isn't going to result in whole cadavers being placed on the crematory grates. Using a clamshell to exhume the cadavers will result in a mash-up of mangled cadavers. I posted two different videos of clamshell equipped Menck and Hambrock draglines showing just how that would happen. You then attempted to claim that the dragline/excavator/clamshell or whatever name you can dream up for a dragline wasn't used to exhume the cadavers. Now you're claiming that Wiernik and Rajchman told the truth about how the dragline (excavator, clamshell, etc.) exhumed the cadavers from the mass graves. Wiernik and Rajchman both lied about seeing a clamshell exhuming the cadavers. That over 700,000 cadavers were first chopped and mangled into a bloody stew of meat, blood and guts before being placed on a grate constructed from railroad rails is utterly ludicrous. It has absolutely nothing to do with what names are attached to the draglines. This post has been moved because yet again, Turnagain is lying about what the witnesses said.
The argument that the way witnesses described excavators digging pits and exhuming bodies, means they described something impossible, therefore they lied, is clearly drivel. To make that argument even appear to work, Turnagain has to lie that the witnesses described a clamshell equipped dragline.
Wiernik and Rajchman did not lie about seeing a clamshell exhuming bodies, as they did not say clamshell. They said excavator.
If the argument Turnagain put forward worked using the term excavator, he would use it, as that is what the witnesses said, but he knows that argument is drivel.
|
|
Turnagain
âď¸
đđźđťđźđżđŽđđđ
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Oct 2, 2022 14:37:00 GMT
Nessie wrote:
In Nessie's opinion there's no successful dissenting opinion. Of course Nessie's opinion is all that matters in holyhoax la-la land. All else must be disregarded. In holyhoax la-la land Nessie's opinion is the supreme law of the land.
Of course Wiernik and Rajchman called the dragline an excavator. What does that have to do with you claiming that the draglines being used only to uncover the graves while the sonderkommandos exhumed the cadavers and carried them to the crematory grates?
|
|
Nessie
âď¸
đđđ§đđŤđđđ˘đĽđ˘đŹ đŽđąđˇđđąđśđ°đŽđđźđż
Posts: 5,773
|
Post by Nessie on Oct 2, 2022 14:43:49 GMT
Nessie wrote: In Nessie's opinion there's no successful dissenting opinion. Of course Nessie's opinion is all that matters in holyhoax la-la land. All else must be disregarded. In holyhoax la-la land Nessie's opinion is the supreme law of the land. Of course Wiernik and Rajchman called the dragline an excavator. What does that have to do with you claiming that the draglines being used only to uncover the graves while the sonderkommandos exhumed the cadavers and carried them to the crematory grates? This post has been moved because;
1 - it is a lie to suggest that in my opinion there is no successful dissenting opinion and that my opinion is all that matters. It is not just my opinion, it is the opinion of every single university history department and that decision is based on evidence, not opinion. It is not an opinion that no evidenced alternative to gassings has been produced, it is a fact.
2 - Wiernik and Rajchman called the excavator an excavator. It is a lie to suggest otherwise.
3 - It is a lie to say that I claimed draglines were used to uncover the graves. I said excavator.
|
|
Turnagain
âď¸
đđźđťđźđżđŽđđđ
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Oct 2, 2022 14:59:41 GMT
LOL! Nessie is placing my replies in his archive. It's as close as he can get to full on censorship. Hey, ya' gotta' work with what ya' got. Nessie is now apparently claiming that the dragline wasn't used at all to exhume the cadavers but another unspecified type of excavator was used for that purpose. It wasn't a shovel, that fell on it's arse so what kind of machine was used to exhume the cadavers if not a dragline? Be specific, Nessie and "evidence" that it existed. A photo would do nicely.
Edit. Rajchman claimed that the same excavator that dug the graves exhumed the cadavers. The photographic evidence along with the testimony of Arad, Colls, ARC et al. show the M&H dragline digging the graves. How do you account for that?
|
|
Nessie
âď¸
đđđ§đđŤđđđ˘đĽđ˘đŹ đŽđąđˇđđąđśđ°đŽđđźđż
Posts: 5,773
|
Post by Nessie on Oct 2, 2022 15:40:20 GMT
LOL! Nessie is placing my replies in his archive. It's as close as he can get to full on censorship. Hey, ya' gotta' work with what ya' got. Nessie is now apparently claiming that the dragline wasn't used at all to exhume the cadavers but another unspecified type of excavator was used for that purpose. It wasn't a shovel, that fell on it's arse so what kind of machine was used to exhume the cadavers if not a dragline? Be specific, Nessie and "evidence" that it existed. A photo would do nicely.
Edit. Rajchman claimed that the same excavator that dug the graves exhumed the cadavers. The photographic evidence along with the testimony of Arad, Colls, ARC et al. show the M&H dragline digging the graves. How do you account for that?
I am doing this to try to get you to stop lying and to apologies for lying in the exchange you refuse to deal with about what I and the witnesses said, about excavators, not draglines.
1 - I have always claimed it was an unspecified excavator that was used, as that is what the witnesses said. Your suggestion that I am "now claiming" something is a lie, my position has never changed.
2 - you know there is no photo of the excavator used to dig the graves or exhume the bodies. The excavators photographed at the camp are at the end, when there were no prisoners and the Nazis were finishing off covering up what they had done.
|
|
