Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 28, 2022 17:42:46 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie tries another weasel dodge. No, it's not a false analogy. The equipment used at Treblinka II had been identified as a M&H mA and mB. In American terminology that type of equipment is called a dragline and it doesn't make any difference if it's some piddly little pre-war M&H dragline or Bucyrus-Erie's Big Muskie. Draglines are draglines and water is water no matter what language is used. Excavations can be accomplished with anything from a shovel to a bulldozer but draglines are draglines. Nessie's weasel dodge falls on it's arse.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 28, 2022 19:28:16 GMT
Nessie wrote: I don't give a sh!t what you want to call the dragline. You can call it a "digger" or a "hole maker" or a "super-duper dirt scooper" but I call such equipment a dragline. It all references the same piece of equipment and you know it, Nessie. No, I do not know it and neither do you. You do not know that the M&H dragline was the only excavator available to the Nazis to dig pits. How is that a lie, when you go on to quote witnesses stating that happened!!!!! They describe excavators uncovering the bodies and workers taking them to put them on the pyres. They do not describe the excavators putting the bodies on the pyres. That is a total lie, I have quoted you doing exactly that on numerous occasions!!!! " When Wiernik said that the dragline..." "The notion that the M&H draglines both excavated and stockpiled the ex from the graves as described by Wiernik..." "Wiernik claimed five graves and Rajchman said eleven graves. Nessie says that the graves were 100 meters long. None of those graves could have been excavated with the M&H mB dragline. "Rajchman, Wiernik and Rosenberg all claim that the dimensions of the graves were different, the number of graves were different and shared only the common feature of being impossible to dig with the M&H dragline." "Wiernik said that an excavator was used to "dig out the trenches". ...It is impossible for the M&H Mb dragline to dig such "trenches". "I should amend my statement to a "credible witness" not some lying POS like Wiernik. Do you actually expect people to believe that the gas chambers were hermetically sealed? That he got his ears nailed to a wall? That the dragline could pick 3,000 cadavers at a time?" "You lie. Both Wiernik and Rajchman said that the dragline exhumed the bodies" You lied when you repeatedly claimed they said a dragline was used and discussed the M&H dragline. You are trying to dodge your lies, so that you can keep on with your crap argument that the dragline could not dig pits the size described by the witnesses.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 28, 2022 19:31:15 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie tries another weasel dodge. No, it's not a false analogy. The equipment used at Treblinka II had been identified as a M&H mA and mB. In American terminology that type of equipment is called a dragline and it doesn't make any difference if it's some piddly little pre-war M&H dragline or Bucyrus-Erie's Big Muskie. Draglines are draglines and water is water no matter what language is used. Excavations can be accomplished with anything from a shovel to a bulldozer but draglines are draglines. Nessie's weasel dodge falls on it's arse. It is assumed to be that excavator, it is not proved. You are now assuming the M&H dragline was the only excavator available to the Nazis.
Back this exchange;
I said "Excavators uncovered the corpses which were collected by Sonderkommandos."
You replied "You lie. Both Wiernik and Rajchman said that the dragline exhumed the bodies"
Be honest, what did Weirnik and Rajchman actually say? Was it dragline as you claim, yes or no?
No further discussing will be entertained until you answer that question.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 29, 2022 4:28:05 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Horse frocky! The draglines at Treblinka I were positively identified as being of M&H mfg. and were allegedly used to dig the graves at Treblinka II. Nessie is just claiming "coulda woulda" and "what if" rights to the draglines being identified as M&H. Nessie always has to look ahead to his next weasel dodge.
Yep, Nessie is right on schedule with his next weasel dodge, a non sequitur. Nobody has claimed that the draglines uncovered the graves, exhumed the cadavers and then placed them on the crematory grates.
The context of that conversation was that a clamshell couldn't exhume whole bodies. I had just posted videos of how the clamshell operates and how dropping it into a mass grave would produce lots of parts and pieces of the cadavers but few if any whole cadavers. Nessie was arguing that the dragline was only used to uncover the graves and the sonderkommandos went into the graves to exhume the cadavers. Wiernik's and Rajchman's ignorance of how a clamshell equipped dragline operates proved that their claims of how the cadavers were exhumed to be a lie. Nessie's claim that the terminology for the machinery supposedly used to exhume the cadavers is nothing but meaningless babble.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Sept 29, 2022 4:34:00 GMT
Nessie's claim that the terminology for the machinery supposedly used to exhume the cadavers is nothing but meaningless babble. It has been that way on this topic for about 8 years now; even "Joe Future" was deeply dismayed many Moons ago.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 29, 2022 7:32:08 GMT
... The context of that conversation was that a clamshell couldn't exhume whole bodies. I had just posted videos of how the clamshell operates and how dropping it into a mass grave would produce lots of parts and pieces of the cadavers but few if any whole cadavers. Nessie was arguing that the dragline was only used to uncover the graves and the sonderkommandos went into the graves to exhume the cadavers. Wiernik's and Rajchman's ignorance of how a clamshell equipped dragline operates proved that their claims of how the cadavers were exhumed to be a lie. Nessie's claim that the terminology for the machinery supposedly used to exhume the cadavers is nothing but meaningless babble. Did Wiernik and Rajchman say dragline or excavator?
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 29, 2022 8:39:29 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Wiernik called the machinery used to exhume the cadavers both a "machine" and an "excavator". I don't recall what Rajchman called the dragline and I'm not going to go dig through his book for that meaningless detail.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 29, 2022 8:59:29 GMT
Here is one of the subjects that Nessie is trying to avoid by nattering on endlessly about the proper term for a dragline. From page four of this thread:
Nessie lied by omission when claiming that academics agreed on the conventional narrative of the holyhoax while failing to mention that there are numerous well qualified academics who dispute the conventional narrative. The other subject that Nessie is desperately trying to avoid is his claim that there is corroboration for Gley's description of how the crematory grate was built and how the Germans used only cadavers for fuel for the cremations.
Thus we have Nessie objecting to meaningless semantics while his real clangers slide under the radar.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 29, 2022 9:27:31 GMT
Nessie wrote: Wiernik called the machinery used to exhume the cadavers both a "machine" and an "excavator". I don't recall what Rajchman called the dragline and I'm not going to go dig through his book for that meaningless detail. We had this exchange;
I said "Excavators uncovered the corpses which were collected by Sonderkommandos."
You replied; "You lie. Both Wiernik and Rajchman said that the dragline exhumed the bodies"
Will you now accept I did not lie and you then lied that they said it was a dragline?
Will you now accept that you should drop the term dragline and use the terms they used?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 29, 2022 9:30:48 GMT
Here is one of the subjects that Nessie is trying to avoid by nattering on endlessly about the proper term for a dragline. From page four of this thread: Nessie lied by omission when claiming that academics agreed on the conventional narrative of the holyhoax while failing to mention that there are numerous well qualified academics who dispute the conventional narrative. The other subject that Nessie is desperately trying to avoid is his claim that there is corroboration for Gley's description of how the crematory grate was built and how the Germans used only cadavers for fuel for the cremations. Thus we have Nessie objecting to meaningless semantics while his real clangers slide under the radar. I will deal with those two issues when we have finished dealing with the issue of you lying about that witnesses said about the excavators. You have been told that nothing will progress until that matter has been dealt with.
We had this exchange;
I said "Excavators uncovered the corpses which were collected by Sonderkommandos."
You replied; "You lie. Both Wiernik and Rajchman said that the dragline exhumed the bodies"
Will you now accept I did not lie and you then lied that they said it was a dragline?
Will you now accept that you should drop the term dragline and use the terms they used?
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 29, 2022 9:50:24 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Not only no but hell no. That piece of equipment has a perfectly good name, "dragline" in American English. Why should I start calling it a "digger" a "super-duper dirt scooper" or some unpronounceable Polish name? "Dragline" is it's proper name and that's what I'll call it.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 29, 2022 12:05:54 GMT
Nessie wrote: Not only no but hell no. That piece of equipment has a perfectly good name, "dragline" in American English. Why should I start calling it a "digger" a "super-duper dirt scooper" or some unpronounceable Polish name? "Dragline" is it's proper name and that's what I'll call it. Why not use the terms the witnesses used, excavator? Is it because your claim, the Nazis could not dig a pit, or exhume bodies as described with an excavator, is clearly wrong? You need to change excavator to M&H dragline, to get your argument to work.
We had this exchange;
I said "Excavators uncovered the corpses which were collected by Sonderkommandos."
You replied; "You lie. Both Wiernik and Rajchman said that the dragline exhumed the bodies"
Until you apologise for calling me a liar, for saying excavators were used, when that was the word used, and accept you lied when you said they said dragline, there will be no further discussion between us.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 29, 2022 12:45:25 GMT
Nessie wrote:
One reason is because the term is archaic. Like referring to an M-16 as a "musketoon". Backhoes/excavators hadn't been invented yet. Generally, backhoes are mounted on smaller rubber tired tractors and excavators are track mounted backhoes. Track mounted backhoes are usually called "excavators" or just "hoes". Draglines are just draglines except when equipped with a clamshell bucket and are then sometimes called a "clamshell". The machine doesn't change, just the type of bucket that's attached to it. Why not use the term, "super-duper dirt scooper" or "digger"? Because it's idiotic and people aren't going to know what your talking about.
That exchange was about you claiming that the draglines only uncovered the graves and the sonderkommandos performed the exhumation of the cadavers and carried them to the crematory grates. That was after you were shown videos of why a clamshell couldn't exhume whole cadavers and you were lying about the witnesses not saying that the cadavers were exhumed by the draglines. Both Wiernik and Rajchman claimed that the clamshell equipped dragline exhumed whole bodies and you were lying about what they said. Wiernik and Rajchman claimed that whole bodies were exhumed with the clamshell which is an impossibility and proved that they were lying about seeing any cadavers being exhumed. You, of course, were lying in a futile attempt to cover up those lies.
All of your horse frocky about what I call a dragline is just smoke and bullsh!t to cover up your previous lie. The dragline didn't exhume any whole bodies from the mass graves with a clamshell. Your claim that the dragline just uncovered the graves and didn't exhume any bodies is a demonstrable lie. Sell your tripe about my calling the M&H mB a dragline down the street, Nessie.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 29, 2022 14:26:22 GMT
Nessie wrote: One reason is because the term is archaic. Like referring to an M-16 as a "musketoon". Backhoes/excavators hadn't been invented yet. Generally, backhoes are mounted on smaller rubber tired tractors and excavators are track mounted backhoes. Track mounted backhoes are usually called "excavators" or just "hoes". Draglines are just draglines except when equipped with a clamshell bucket and are then sometimes called a "clamshell". The machine doesn't change, just the type of bucket that's attached to it. Why not use the term, "super-duper dirt scooper" or "digger"? Because it's idiotic and people aren't going to know what your talking about. Excavator is a common term and it is the term witnesses used. You are changing that term to fit in with your argument that the graves and exhumations as described by the witnesses were not possible, therefore they lied. You thought you had spotted something significant and now you know none of the witnesses described a dragline or the M&H dragline, you are stuck. Your tiny ego is too much to admit you are wrong. I did not use the term dragline. Both Wiernik and Rajchman describe the excavator digging up the corpses for Sonderkommados to carry them to the pyres. Here is what Wiernik said; "He put a machine for exhuming the corpses into operation, an excavator which could dig up 3,000 corpses at one time." He said machine and excavator, he did not say clamshell or dragline. You are lying again. Here is what Rajchman said; "Therefore he orders that the excavator that was used to dig the graves should now start digging out the corpses that have been lying in the ground for months ... The excavator starts to dig out the dead" Neither used the term dragline or clamshell, you are lying. Quote Wiernik and Rajchman stating the graves were exhumed using a clamshell, dragline or the M&H dragline. You cannot you are lying. You are lying because you know your argument fails if you use the term excavator that the witnesses used.
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 29, 2022 16:35:11 GMT
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