Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 25, 2022 10:03:25 GMT
Korherr said he was told they were resettled in the Lublin District, which is not the Russian east There is no evidence that in 1944, there were millions of Jews in camps and ghettos in the Russian east. He said the Russian East in his official report. He later said he asked for more details and was told the Lublin District. There is no evidence of 1.27 million Jews being resettled there by the end of 1942. You have not evidenced mass transports from the AR camps to any of those places. There is no evidence of regular mass transports back out of the AR camps. Show me evidence of 1200 camps and ghettos in the east, containing 2.4 million Jews, at the end of 1944. |
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Sept 25, 2022 10:23:10 GMT
He said the Russian East in his official report. He later said he asked for more details and was told the Lublin District. There is no evidence of 1.27 million Jews being resettled there by the end of 1942. You have not evidenced mass transports from the AR camps to any of those places. There is no evidence of regular mass transports back out of the AR camps. Show me evidence of 1200 camps and ghettos in the east, containing 2.4 million Jews, at the end of 1944. What he said afterwards is hearsay; the official govt report is sacrosanct. You should know better than to give hearsay to this forum. Most of the transports to Sobibor left there is no reason to suspect the same did not happen to the rest. According to the Dutch transports they left by the hundreds at a time. Te evidence has been given in many many threads stop asking. Each judenlager held approx 2000, some many more some less. There were at least 1200 judenlagers.. I explained clearly the rout that occurred with Soviet advances. Not even you are that dim, perhaps maybe. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 25, 2022 10:38:59 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Many of the German witnesses simply repeated the Jew's lies. Gley claimed that cadavers were flammable. Schluch claimed that the victims turned blue from the CO poisoning. Hoess confessed to the murder of 2.5 million with an additional half million dying from other causes. Those are undeniable facts, Nessie.
The witnesses from Spielberg's interviews speak quite literally about their experiences at Treblinka. As one witness said when asked what the Germans did to him when he arrived at Treblinka, he said, "Nothing. They made me comfortable and gave me something to eat". It doesn't get more literal and mundane than that.
How can I misrepresent what witnesses have written in books? How can quoting from a book be a misrepresentation? There are court records where testimony is given verbatim. How can I misrepresent the verbatim testimony of witnesses?
Are you seriously suggesting that photography wasn't available to the Lukaszkiewicz investigation? A state sponsored official investigation? The fact that Lukaszkiewicz took and retained no samples of the cremains is ridiculous. The Lukaszkeiwicz investigation was a sham and it's findings were no more than, "Yep, I seen it so take my word for it".
Colls claimed to have done a GPR survey of the area but published no complete results of that survey. She published only her electrical resistivity findings which could indicate possible grave sites. Why not the GPR profiles that would confirm such ground disturbances? In other studies GPR was used to find underground structures that were thousands of years old. Loghenge, for example. Why not use it to delineate the graves of Treblinka?
As far as "ground disturbances", of course the ground was disturbed at Treblinka. A camp was built there. Buildings were put up, garbage pits dug, wells were dug and installations were built to house at least several thousand people. Claiming "disturbed ground" as evidence of anything sinister is farcical.
You have "evidenced" nothing, Nessie. The graves and the cremains remain unproven while the claims of the alleged witnesses to the homicidal events at Treblinka remain as ridiculously impossible as ever. Your claim that Treblinka was an extermination facility is "evidenced" is bunkum. You have no incontrovertible evidence of that whatsoever.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 25, 2022 10:51:36 GMT
He later said he asked for more details and was told the Lublin District. There is no evidence of 1.27 million Jews being resettled there by the end of 1942. You have not evidenced mass transports from the AR camps to any of those places. There is no evidence of regular mass transports back out of the AR camps. Show me evidence of 1200 camps and ghettos in the east, containing 2.4 million Jews, at the end of 1944. What he said afterwards is hearsay; the official govt report is sacrosanct. You should know better than to give hearsay to this forum. What he said is not hearsay. He was told they had been settled in the Lublin District. He is reporting what he was told, which is not hearsay. That 34,000 Dutch Jews arrived and only a few hundred left and by the end of the war, only 18 returned, is circumstantial evidence supporting the mass murder claim. You have produced zero evidence of mass transports back out of the AR camps to the Russian east and of camps and ghettos packed full of millions of Jews by the end of 1944. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 25, 2022 11:01:46 GMT
Nessie wrote: Many of the German witnesses simply repeated the Jew's lies. Gley claimed that cadavers were flammable. Schluch claimed that the victims turned blue from the CO poisoning. Hoess confessed to the murder of 2.5 million with an additional half million dying from other causes. Those are undeniable facts, Nessie. There is evidence Hoess was coerced, there is no evidence Gley and those tried by Germans in Germany were. Many, such as Stangl were safe in South America, where they could have easily given evidence as to what did happen, if it was not gassings. That they gave the Jews they felt they could trust to work for them, something to eat and did not beat them, is not evidence of no mass gassings and that something else happened. Why are you not quoting that witness saying what did happen? The answer is because he agreed gassings took place!!!! For example, you claimed Wiernik described the use of a dragline and that he said the chambers were hermetically sealed, when he did not say that. No. I asked about his original report, which neither of us have seen, so how do you know there are no photos? You stupidly think that if something is not online, it does not exist!!!! His investigation is corroborated, starting with the 1944 aerial photo which proves large areas of disturbed ground on its own. Not when it is assessed along with all of the other evidence. That you want to see every single survey image is up to you. You suspiciously do nothing about it, when you could easily contact Staffs Uni and ask. The evidence I present has been assessed by hundreds of academics over the past 70 odd years. You arrogantly expect me to dismiss it all, in favour of your unevidenced beliefs. |
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Sept 25, 2022 11:06:29 GMT
What he said afterwards is hearsay; the official govt report is sacrosanct. You should know better than to give hearsay to this forum. What he said is not hearsay. He was told they had been settled in the Lublin District. He is reporting what he was told, which is not hearsay. That 34,000 Dutch Jews arrived and only a few hundred left and by the end of the war, only 18 returned, is circumstantial evidence supporting the mass murder claim. You have produced zero evidence of mass transports back out of the AR camps to the Russian east and of camps and ghettos packed full of millions of Jews by the end of 1944. What you are reporting is hearsay. The Sobibor witnesses gave many examples of leaving the camps. We get sick of repeating ourselves. Some went to the camps you claim but most were exited through the border and then back. The evidence of this has been produced and this is still under investigation. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 25, 2022 11:21:30 GMT
What he said is not hearsay. He was told they had been settled in the Lublin District. He is reporting what he was told, which is not hearsay. That 34,000 Dutch Jews arrived and only a few hundred left and by the end of the war, only 18 returned, is circumstantial evidence supporting the mass murder claim. You have produced zero evidence of mass transports back out of the AR camps to the Russian east and of camps and ghettos packed full of millions of Jews by the end of 1944. What you are reporting is hearsay. It is not hearsay for Korherr to report on a conversation he had. www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/interviewsThere are twelve Dutch witnesses to mass arrivals at Sobibor, and then only a few hundred at most departing. You have produced zero evidence of mass transports from the AR camps to the Russian east. |
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Sept 25, 2022 11:36:09 GMT
What you are reporting is hearsay. It is not hearsay for Korherr to report on a conversation he had. www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/interviewsThere are twelve Dutch witnesses to mass arrivals at Sobibor, and then only a few hundred at most departing. You have produced zero evidence of mass transports from the AR camps to the Russian east. It is hearsay for you to listen to that from other sources. You said you were a cop. I doubt it. They are the ones who spoke. Far more left than stayed according to their reports. Korherr said it, official document. End of story for you. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 25, 2022 12:08:44 GMT
It is not hearsay for Korherr to report on a conversation he had. www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/interviewsThere are twelve Dutch witnesses to mass arrivals at Sobibor, and then only a few hundred at most departing. You have produced zero evidence of mass transports from the AR camps to the Russian east. It is hearsay for you to listen to that from other sources. You said you were a cop. I doubt it. They are the ones who spoke. Far more left than stayed according to their reports. Korherr said it, official document. End of story for you. When someone reports a conversation they were part of, that is not hearsay. You made a mistake claiming Korherr reporting of a conversation he had was hearsay.
He clarified that the Russian east in his report was actually the Lublin District. There is no evidence 1.27 million Jews were resettled there by the end of 1942. Korherr was lied to.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 25, 2022 12:22:43 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie's excuses become more puerile with every post. Like a little kid trying to explain how his hand got stuck in the cookie jar. If Gley and Schluch weren't forced to tell such ridiculous lies then why did they claim to have seen such absurdities? That the Germans treated Jews that they could trust well conjures up the image of the guards being told that a trainload of trustworthy Jews were coming in so put on your smiley faces, no cursing or using the whips and dogs on them while you politely escort them to some comfortable place. After that you can let 'er rip on the next trainload of Jews. Nessie has made some astonishing claims in the past but his claim that the Germans treated some Jews with kid gloves while beating the crap out of the others and murdering them takes the cake.
Nessie takes a dive into semantics. There are different names for the excavators used at the gravel quarry and presumably at Treblinka II. The Jews called them "diggers" or "excavators", the Germans call them "seilbaggers" or just, "'baggers" and the Americans call them "draglines" or, if equipped with a clamshell bucket, "clamshells". All of those names reference the same type of machine. Just as a road grader is called a "straรengrader" in German and a "blade" in American. Nessie accuses me of lying when I use the American appellation for that type of machinery.
Wiernik describes a hermetically sealed building. All the doors are hermetically sealed, the roof vent has a hermetic cap and there are presumably no windows in a gas chamber. Wiernik describes a hermetically sealed gas chamber but doesn't use the exact wording of, "the gas chamber was hermetically sealed". Since Wiernik doesn't use Nessie's preferred wording he then accuses me (for the umpteenth time) of being a dirty liar.
Enough for now, more later.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 25, 2022 12:39:40 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie's excuses become more puerile with every post. Like a little kid trying to explain how his hand got stuck in the cookie jar. If Gley and Schluch weren't forced to tell such ridiculous lies then why did they claim to have seen such absurdities? Gley explains how the pyre worked and Schluch spoke about seeing signs of asphyxiation from some of those who died in the chambers. Nothing they say is absurd. It is clearly news to you, but not to me, that the Nazis often did not mistreat Jews they trusted to work for them. You misrepresent what Wiernik said. You do that a lot to me. It is one of your tactics as you try to support your beliefs. I see that you have not been able to justify your demand that I reject all the evidence, assessed for decades by multiple academics, over your unevidenced beliefs. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 25, 2022 14:01:47 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Gley gives an absurd description of how the cremation pyre worked. Schluch gives an absurd description of how the Jew's lips and noses turned blue from the CO. Nah, nothing absurd about any of that testimony. Hey, it supports the holyhoax so it must be true. According to Nessie, that is.
It is clearly news to you that the Germans had strict rules for the treatment of prisoners. They even had a judge who investigated complaints of prisoner mistreatment and there was at least one German guard who was executed for prisoner mistreatment. None of the Spielberg interviewees mentioned being mistreated by the guards. That's zip, zero, nada. Nobody said that they were whipped, beaten with rifle butts, had vicious dogs sicced on them or had a drill bit augured up their anus. The Spielberg witnesses arrived at different times on different trains so why wouldn't they have been similarly mistreated at least until it was determined that they could be useful to the Germans? Why did none of them say, "We got the crap beat out of us, dogs sicced on us and were roundly cursed until the Germans found out that I was a carpenter or a barber and could be useful to them so then they went out of their way to be nice to us". I've little doubt that there were isolated instances of mistreatment but the murderous cruelty claimed by your alleged witnesses is horse frocky.
Really? Specifically, how do I do that? What, precisely, is my misrepresentation? Did or did not Wiernik describe a hermetically sealed chamber? Am I lying when I say that Wiernik described a dragline? Am I lying when I call a road grader a "blade"?
Yes, you do have multiple academics who agree with the conventional narrative of the holyhoax. What you fail to mention is that there are multiple academics who disagree with that conventional narrative. Kollerstrom, Butz, Faurisson, Rudolf, Rassinier, Mattogno et al. Your claim that ALL academics agree with you and your holyhoax narrative is utter bullsh!t.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 25, 2022 16:22:29 GMT
Nessie wrote: Gley gives an absurd description of how the cremation pyre worked. Schluch gives an absurd description of how the Jew's lips and noses turned blue from the CO. Nah, nothing absurd about any of that testimony. Hey, it supports the holyhoax so it must be true. According to Nessie, that is. No, they are supported by other evidence. I am lead by what is evidenced. You are not. You demand belief in what is not evidenced. The evidence is that the brutality happened when prisoners tried to escape from the trains and as they were being driven into the gas chambers. The rest of time the Nazis maintained the illusion they were being resettled. That a Nazi was appointed to convict other Nazis who stole property that had been stolen from the Jews, is not news. Wiernik described hermetically sealed doors and a roof cap, which makes sense to stop leaks. He described a digger excavating the graves and bodies, which also makes sense. He is corroborated by oyther evidence. You have no evidence from any eyewitness that something else happened inside TII. I did not say all academics agree. I am saying the evidence has survived decades of testing by numerous academics. The academics who disputed the evidence, did so either without presenting any evidence as to what did happen (Rudolf), or by use of fallacious arguments (Rudolf, Mattogno) or they made claims that were not backed by any evidence (Butz, Mattogno). Rassinier made the daft claim that because he did not see gassings, there were no gassings, but he was never inside the Kremas. I have not seen the arguments Kollerstrom or Faurisson made, but I have also not seen either present any evidence of what did happen. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Sept 25, 2022 17:13:11 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Gley claimed that railroad rails were placed on some rocks. The size and number or rocks unspecified. Those rails were cross-hatched with other light rails and up to 200 cadavers were placed on the grid to be cremated. It was later in the process that it was found that the cadavers were flammable. What other testimony supports that description of the cremation pyres? Name and quotes, please.
That is contrary to what is claimed by both Wiernik and Rajchman. Here is a quote from, "A Year in Treblinka", by Yankel Wiernik:
At that time Wiernik wasn't attempting to escape. He was simply reporting his and the other prisoner's treatment at the hands of his captors. Why then didn't the Spielberg interviewees report similar treatment?
Weasel dodging intensifies. Where does Wiernik mention leaks or other forms of venting from the gas chamber?
Yes, Wiernik describes a "digger" aka an "excavator", a "seilbagger" a "'bagger" a "dragline" or a "clamshell" as digging a grave. What does that have to do with your accusation that I lied about Wiernik's claim that a dragline was used to dig the graves?
No, you just didn't mention that not all academics agree with the conventional narrative. The inference being that no academics disagreed with the conventional narrative. After your bullsh!t was called you have amended that claim and now natter on about why you disagree with the findings of those academics.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Sept 25, 2022 18:31:08 GMT
Nessie wrote: Gley claimed that railroad rails were placed on some rocks. The size and number or rocks unspecified. Those rails were cross-hatched with other light rails and up to 200 cadavers were placed on the grid to be cremated. It was later in the process that it was found that the cadavers were flammable. What other testimony supports that description of the cremation pyres? Name and quotes, please. Why did you miss out part of the process Gley described? The testimony that supports him is here; www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/arperpsspeak.htmlThere are multiple Nazi witnesses to pyres using rails and wood to start the burning. Because they were put back on trains to be taken to work at other camps, which were not death camps. Those who were to be used to kill fellow Jews, such as Wiernik, were also mistreated and forced to do so by the Nazis. Why do you think a door has hermetical sealing around it? I assumed you would know, but clearly you don't. He did not use the term dragline, which you have repeatedly attributed to him and others, as part of argument that they all lied. You were mistaken with your inference. You regularly misunderstand what you have been told. |
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