𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸
🕵️
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎
Posts: 1,668
|
Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 27, 2023 2:47:01 GMT
]You have asked that, to deflect from your inability to evidence and prove no one was gassed in the AR camps, Chelmno or the A-B Kremas and what happened to all of those people instead. An alleged 6 million murdered many by gassing so the claim goes and yet there is not a single shred of evidence, concrete evidence of gassing. All there is are rumours, adminicles, hearsay and lies. People like yourself believe on faith such activity happened despite the lack of hard evidence. The existence of camps implies the existence of people in those camps by definition. The Germans would not build hundreds of camps in Austria for Hungarian jews with the sole intention of sending them all to Birkenau for gassing. All the camps moving westward involved people, huge numbers of people. To be fair when people like yourself started this charade of misinformation the existence of the labour camps for Jews were largely unknown. In all the Reich had over 40 thousand camps. Here are the known Jewish labour camps in 1945.
|
|
|
Post by been_there on May 27, 2023 7:06:11 GMT
You have asked that, to deflect from your inability to evidence and prove no one was gassed in the AR camps, Chelmno or the A-B Kremas and what happened to all of those people instead. An alleged 6 million murdered, many by gassing so the claim goes, and yet there is not a single shred of evidence — concrete evidence — of gassing. All there is are rumours, adminicles, hearsay and lies. People like yourself believe on faith such activity happened despite the lack of hard evidence. Yes, people like this one rely on faith and unquestioning belief. Like all cultish believers, their response to facts and reasoning that refute their belief-system is to personally attack. Which is why the Church of H demonises any reasonable questioning as ”denial”. It is also why it has criminalised doubt of it’s credo as ”anti-semitic hate speech”. Such facts are disregarded, as they refute the core belief of ’holocaust’. In other words, the ’where did they go?’ argument-from-ignorance fallacy, is an avoidance tactic to obfuscate the actual evidence of places where they went. As we have just witnessed, brainless believers (and/or deliberate deceivers) will not respond to questions the answers to which will undermine their ’where did they go’ tactic. And that explains why you repeatedly providing evidence of tens of thousands of camps where obviously hundreds of thousands of Jews went, is not welcome. 🙂
|
|
Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,752
|
Post by Nessie on May 27, 2023 7:34:29 GMT
]You have asked that, to deflect from your inability to evidence and prove no one was gassed in the AR camps, Chelmno or the A-B Kremas and what happened to all of those people instead. An alleged 6 million murdered many by gassing so the claim goes and yet there is not a single shred of evidence, concrete evidence of gassing. All there is are rumours, adminicles, hearsay and lies. People like yourself believe on faith such activity happened despite the lack of hard evidence. You pretend there is a lack of hard evidence, such as your recent quoting of hearsay. By all normal standards of evidencing, there is overwhelming evidence to prove mass gassings killed millions of Jews, with millions more shot. The only people deceived into thinking there is a lack of evidence, are those who, for various reasons, want to believe the Holocaust was a hoax. Prove they were operating in 1945 and show me the evidence of millions of Jews in those camps. Considering the massive amount of resources the Nazis would have had to use, to guard those camps, let along keep the prisoners, that will be easy to do, if it were what happened.
|
|
Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,752
|
Post by Nessie on May 27, 2023 7:41:26 GMT
An alleged 6 million murdered, many by gassing so the claim goes, and yet there is not a single shred of evidence — concrete evidence — of gassing. All there is are rumours, adminicles, hearsay and lies. People like yourself believe on faith such activity happened despite the lack of hard evidence. Yes, people like this one rely on faith and unquestioning belief. That is not true. I rely in evidence. You are the one who constantly resorts to person attacks. Some countries have made denial illegal, because denial is anti-Semitic and it is promoting a hoax. The existence of those camps is not disregarded. The issue is one of chronology. There is no evidence of millions of Jews in camps in 1945. No, it is a request to produce evidence of where they went instead of being gassed in the AR camps, Chelmno and the A-B Kremas, and where they were in 1945. You are resorting to personal abuse, because your cultish belief system is under attack. You have provided evidence of tens of thousands of camps. You have not provided evidence they were all still occupied in 1945, and contained millions of Jews.
|
|
|
Post by been_there on May 27, 2023 8:20:02 GMT
Yes, people like this one rely on faith and unquestioning belief. KNEE-JERK CONTRADICTION: That is not true. I rely in evidence. CHILDISH ’TU QUOQUE’: ”You are the one who constantly resorts to person attacks”. IDIOTIC CONFIRMATION OF MY POINT: ”Some countries have made denial [doubt and skeptical enquiry] illegal, because denial [doubt and skeptical enquiry] is anti-Semitic and it is promoting a hoax.” KNEE-JERK CONTRADICTION: ”The existence of those camps is not disregarded. The issue is one of chronology. There is no evidence of millions of Jews in camps in 1945”. KNEE-JERK CONTRADICTION: ”No, it is a request to produce evidence of where they went instead of being gassed in the AR camps, Chelmno and the A-B Kremas, and where they were in 1945”. AVOIDANCE OF MY QUESTIONS: ”You are resorting to... [blah, blah, blah]You have provided evidence of tens of thousands of camps. You have not provided evidence they were all still occupied in 1945, and contained millions of Jews. This is an impasse. There is no evidence that in 1945 these camps — ones that the Holy H religion ignored for decades — were empty, just as there is no evidence they were full or even over-crowded. An honest, intelligent person who wanted to look at the ACTUAL EVIDENCE impartially would acknowledge this. Someone intent on buttressing a belief-system would not. Ironically, it is this kind of obvious lack of reasonable, honest argument from defenders of the holocaust mass-gassing mythology that I suspect is guaranteeing it is increasingly being seen by visitors to online H-discussion for the deception/delusion it is. Here again are those questions that Nessie refuses to answer, because their answer (i.e. simple arithmetic) undermines this ’where did they go’ obfuscation:
|
|
𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸
🕵️
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎
Posts: 1,668
|
Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 27, 2023 11:30:06 GMT
You pretend there is a lack of hard evidence, such as your recent quoting of hearsay. By all normal standards of evidencing, there is overwhelming evidence to prove mass gassings killed millions of Jews, with millions more shot. The only people deceived into thinking there is a lack of evidence, are those who, for various reasons, want to believe the Holocaust was a hoax. If there is hard evidence then this is the forum to present it. The poster Nessie has said he has hard evidence for many years yet never presented it. He has only presented human statements, mainly from underground spies or those under duress. It was not the state guarding those camps but private companies using private guards. Those camps existed, get used to the reality.
|
|
Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,752
|
Post by Nessie on May 27, 2023 14:46:38 GMT
.... You have provided evidence of tens of thousands of camps. You have not provided evidence they were all still occupied in 1945, and contained millions of Jews. This is an impasse. There is no evidence that in 1945 these camps — ones that the Holy H religion ignored for decades — were empty, just as there is no evidence they were full or even over-crowded. An honest, intelligent person who wanted to look at the ACTUAL EVIDENCE impartially would acknowledge this. Someone intent on buttressing a belief-system would not. I started a thread here, to find out camp populations at the end of the war; rodoh.info/thread/245/jews-liberated-end-warSince you acknowledge that an honest and intelligent person would want to see the actual evidence, will you contribute to studying camp populations at the end of the war? The evidence is that the Soviets found mostly abandoned camps and only a few thousand in A-B, which was the largest of all the camps. The Nazis had fled west, taking most of the Jewish (and other) prisoners with them on death marches. The western Allies did find camps that were packed full, but the largest of them was Bergen-Belsen, with c60,000 prisoners, not all of whom were Jewish. The 7 largest camps resulted in the liberation of c144,500 people, again not all of whom were Jewish. That flies in the face of revisionist claims millions of Jews survived, as they were not gassed and it was all a hoax. That is why no revisionist will do an honest assessment of liberations at the end of the war. Anyone who read through this forum would soon see there is a lack of evidence of millions of Jews not being gassed and so being accommodated by the Nazis in camps, as the ghettos were being cleared 1942-4 and that there were not millions of Jews liberated at the end of the war. Detailed analysis is avoided, such as what happened to the Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor, the Warsaw Jews sent to TII and the Hungarian Jews sent to A-B. Instead, vague figures are demanded, as a way to dodge any detailed analysis. The following questions are an example of that. You have yet again failed to explain how answering those questions, undermines the "where did they go?" question.
|
|
Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,752
|
Post by Nessie on May 27, 2023 14:52:23 GMT
You pretend there is a lack of hard evidence, such as your recent quoting of hearsay. By all normal standards of evidencing, there is overwhelming evidence to prove mass gassings killed millions of Jews, with millions more shot. The only people deceived into thinking there is a lack of evidence, are those who, for various reasons, want to believe the Holocaust was a hoax. If there is hard evidence then this is the forum to present it. The poster Nessie has said he has hard evidence for many years yet never presented it. He has only presented human statements, mainly from underground spies or those under duress. I have presented hard evidence, such the documents recording mass transports to the AR camps and the construction of gas chambers at A-B, the freely given witness evidence of multiple people who worked inside the AR camps and A-B Kremas of mass gassings, the archaeological evidence of large areas of disturbed ground at the AR camps containing cremated remains. You dishonestly suggest, with no evidence to back up your claim, that I have "only" provided statements from spies or obtained under duress. Your inventions are becoming more ridiculous by the post. Evidence a camp, liberated in 1945, that was being guarded by a private company.
|
|
|
Post by been_there on May 27, 2023 15:06:29 GMT
Yes, people like this one rely on faith and unquestioning belief. Like all cultish believers, their response to facts and reasoning that refute their belief-system is to personally attack. Which is why the Church of H demonises any reasonable questioning as ”denial”. It is also why it has criminalised doubt of it’s credo as ”anti-semitic hate speech”. Such facts [the map of the only fairly recently revealed evidence, of tens of thousands of camps and ghettos, presumably containing hundreds of thousands of Jews] are disregarded, as they refute the core belief of ’holocaust’. In other words, the ’where did they go?’, argument-from-ignorance fallacy, is an avoidance tactic to obfuscate the actual evidence of places where they possibly went. And that explains why you [Nazgul] repeatedly providing evidence of tens of thousands of camps where obviously hundreds of thousands of Jews went, is not welcome. 🙂 You have provided evidence of tens of thousands of camps. You have not provided evidence they were all still occupied in 1945, and contained millions of Jews. Here is an example of another dishonest tactic. Namely, the ’moving-the-goalposts’ trick. 🙄 Originally the question was ’ where did they go if they were transited on from Chelmno, the AR camps and Birkenau?’Now that it is evident they may have ’ gone’ to these tens of thousands of only recently acknowledged/discovered camps and ghettos, THEN the question morphs into ”what evidence do you have that they were still there in 1945?”Duh! 🤪 If they WERE transited on to these places from 1942 to 1944, then that PROVES they weren’t gassed between those years in the claimed camps as the Church of Holyhoax insists everyone must believe or be excommunicated and persecuted.
|
|
Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,752
|
Post by Nessie on May 27, 2023 15:37:42 GMT
You have provided evidence of tens of thousands of camps. You have not provided evidence they were all still occupied in 1945, and contained millions of Jews. Here is an example of another dishonest tactic. Namely, the ’moving-the-goalposts’ trick. 🙄 Originally the question was ’ where did they go if they were transited on from Chelmno, the AR camps and Birkenau?’That is still what the "where did they go?" question is about. That is a follow up question to the unevidenced suggestion they went to the "recently acknowledged/discovered camps and ghettos". When revisionists became aware that it was being acknowledged there were c44,000 camps and ghettos, encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-campssome seized on that as the answer to "where did they go?" question. The problem was that those revisionists failed to understand that the vast majority of those camps and ghettos were not in use by the end of the war. Indeed, the history of the ghettos, many of which contained larger populations of Jews than any of the camps, was one of closure. The last of the ghettos, at Lodz closed in mid 1944 and its population was sent to A-B. Duh! Of course, if they were transited to those places then it would prove they were not gassed!!! So, why has no revisionist produced any evidence of millions of Jews being transported to those places? Why has no revisionist produced evidence of millions of Jews being accommodated in those places in 1944-5, after the last of the mass gassing claims? The one attempt to do that, was by Thomas Kues, with his series of articles "Evidence for the Presence of “Gassed” Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories" codoh.com/library/series/evidence-for-the-presence-of-gassed-jews-in-the-1/en/ He failed to find large populations of Jews. Instead, as the Soviets marched west in 1944 - 45, they failed to find any large populations of Jews. The Lodz ghetto, for example, had a population of 160,000 in 1940 and over time, some 210,000 Jews were forced to live there. By mid 1944 its population had dropped to 75,000 and on being liberated in 1945, the Soviets found less than 1000. encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/lodzIf Jews were not being gassed, then the populations of the camps and ghettos on liberation would have been in the millions.
|
|
|
Post by been_there on May 27, 2023 17:30:50 GMT
Here is an example of another dishonest tactic. Namely, the ’moving-the-goalposts’ trick. 🙄 Originally the question was ’ where did they go if they were transited on from Chelmno, the AR camps and Birkenau?’ Now that it is evident they may have ’gone’ to these tens of thousands of only recently acknowledged/discovered camps and ghettos, THEN the question morphs into ”what evidence do you have that they were still there in 1945?” ...When revisionists became aware that it was being acknowledged there were c44,000 camps and ghettos... [blah, blah, deceitful avoidance blah, blah] Oh boy! 🤦♂️ Yet another dishonest reply. 🙄 I suppose, in a way, such unintelligent, deceitful answers are actually a gift to us skeptics who want an honest, impartial revision of the H mass-gassing mythology, as such replies demonstrate that there are no reasonable, honest answers to revisionist arguments. Otherwise why lie and attempt to decieve! The deceit here is that Church-of-H historians (i.e. holocaust high-priests) were themselves ” shocked” and ” staggered” at the decades-late public acknowledgement. So the implication that it was just ’revisionists’ who ”became aware” is a desperately deceitful one: This admission of being shocked, staggered and finding it difficult to believe ”the numbers” by ”scholars” of the Church of H when informed of the new ”research” demonstrates that the numbers, whereabouts and destinations of Jews during WW2 as used by these scholars was based on ignorance of the full reality. Ignorance to an enormous degree. And that is what this person Nessie is trying to hide. The same deceit is being employed again here. Obviously if the history of these tens of thousands of camps and ghettos was succesfully lost (concealed?) from the world for seven decades, then the numbers and names of Jews transported there was also lost (concealed). We know that with the ever decreasing claims for deaths in the camps over the years, yet the Church of H still claims the total of deaths was 6 million. E.g. For decades visitors to the Auschwitz camp complex were asked to believe 4 million people were ”mass-murdered” there. After revisionists exposed that lie, the Church of H reduced that claim to about 1 million ”deaths”. A reduction of 3 million! But still the holy 6 million figure remains unaltered. Same with diminishing death totals at other camps, eg. Majdanek. And this is obviously why the simple four questions I asked is relevant to the subject of this topic-thread.
|
|
Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,752
|
Post by Nessie on May 27, 2023 18:55:45 GMT
...When revisionists became aware that it was being acknowledged there were c44,000 camps and ghettos... [blah, blah, deceitful avoidance blah, blah] Oh boy! 🤦♂️ Yet another dishonest reply. 🙄 I suppose, in a way, such unintelligent, deceitful answers are actually a gift to us skeptics who want an honest, impartial revision of the H mass-gassing mythology, as such replies demonstrate that there are no reasonable, honest answers to revisionist arguments. Otherwise why lie and attempt to decieve! The deceit here is that Church-of-H historians (i.e. holocaust high-priests) were themselves ” shocked” and ” staggered” at the decades-late public acknowledgement. So the implication that it was just ’revisionists’ who ”became aware” is a desperately deceitful one: This admission of being shocked, staggered and finding it difficult to believe ”the numbers” by ”scholars” of the Church of H when informed of the new ”research” demonstrates that the numbers, whereabouts and destinations of Jews during WW2 as used by these scholars was based on ignorance of the full reality. Ignorance to an enormous degree. And that is what this person Nessie is trying to hide. I have not hidden the surprise the total number of camps was. I just did not reference it was a surprise. You are only doing that to divert attention from my actual point, which is that revisionists seized upon the high total of camps, to claim that must be where all the Jews went, ignoring basic chronology, by not investigating how many of those camps were still operating late 1944, into 1945 and how many camps were liberated, whilst still occupied.
Many of the previously little known camps, were temporary places, used to gather Jews before they were sent to the ghettos and concentration camps. They would be in place for a few months, as local Jews from a town and its local area were gathered and first imprisoned. There were also more sub camps to the major camps than previously understood. That is not being hidden, in fact the opposite has happened and the findings have been publicised.
So, again, with all the additional camps and ghettos, where did the Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor, the Warsaw Jews sent to TII and the Hungarian Jews sent to A-B, go, if they were not gassed at those places?
Not if the vast majority of Jews arriving at the AR camps, Chelmno and the A-B Kremas were gassed, since that then means there would be no records of onwards travel. You have to evidence and prove something else happened inside those places, before you can successfully claim the records of onward transit have been "successfully lost (concealed)", otherwise, there is an evidenced explanation as to why there are no records, so there were no records to lose or conceal. That the A-B gassing death toll has been reduced, does not evidence where those people went. Indeed, the reduction makes your job easier. Instead of having to find where 4 million went, you need to find c900,000, of which about half were Hungarians sent there over 3 months in 1944. You are again dodging tackling that question, which is the topic, by asking off topic questions that do not answer where they went.
You need contemporaneous evidence relating to the transport and accommodation of Jews, late 1941 to autumn 1944, the period when mass gassings took place, pertaining to the AR camps, Chelmno and the A-B Kremas, where those gassings took place. You cannot find any evidence to back up your cultist belief, so you ask irrelevant questions.
|
|
𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸
🕵️
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎
Posts: 1,668
|
Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 27, 2023 19:13:00 GMT
This is an average of 20 thousand from each camp. As there were 40 thousand camps in the Reich the amount would be staggering.
|
|
Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,752
|
Post by Nessie on May 28, 2023 8:05:22 GMT
This is an average of 20 thousand from each camp. As there were 40 thousand camps in the Reich the amount would be staggering. The camps the western Allies liberated were packed full of Nazis who had fled the Soviets and the Jews who had survived the death marches.
There is no evidence that 40,000 camps were still being occupied in 1945. You have forgotten that you claimed a private company was guarding the camps then. Who was that company? Show your evidence.
|
|
Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,752
|
Post by Nessie on May 28, 2023 10:22:23 GMT
Courtesy of historians Terry and Hilberg, here is how many Jews they say and revisionists deny were gassed. This is how many Jews revisionists need to answer the question, where did they go? www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=917980#p917980"Camps up to 2,900,000 German Death camps up to 2,600,000 Auschwitz up to 1,000,000 Treblinka up to 800,000 Belzec 434,508 Sobibór over 150,000 Kulmhof over 150,000 Lublin (main camp) over 50,000 Camps with tolls in the low tens of thousands or below over 150,000 Concentration camps (Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Mauthausen, Dachau, Stutthof,and others) Camps with killing operations (Poniatowa, Trawniki, Semlin) Labor camps and transit camps Romanian Golta complex and Bessarabian transit camps 100,000 Croatian and other under 50,000 Hilberg's 50,000 for Lublin-Majdanek compares well with Kranz's 58,000 Jews, most of whom died of exhaustion or shooting and only a minority from gassing, while the Auschwitz figure will include 10s of 1000s who died from exhaustion and illness among registered inmates. The gassings elsewhere rarely targeted Jews, with Stutthof gassings being quite small. The AR deportations include many thousands, likely several 10s of 1000s, who died en route as reflected in several documents (the Kolomea-Belzec report) and testimonies (general agreement on a transport from Miedzyrzec Podlaski being DOA at Treblinka). These coinciding with August-September 1942 peak and the evidently hot summer and massive overcrowding of trains, which was not an issue for other transport waves. Gassings outside the known camps were quite limited for Jews - very few uses of gas vans can be recorded via testimonies or other sources, and often in combination with shootings, the main ones being in the Caucasus by Einsatzgruppe D and the liquidation of the Smolensk ghetto, plus Maly Trostenets (where combination methods were definitely used). Most uses of gas vans were to execute non-Jewish prisoners of the Einsatzgruppen and Security Police held in prisons. In short: the number of Jews gassed is likely not more than 2.6 million, once one subtracts non-gassing deaths at some of the camps and adds in gassing deaths elsewhere - Semlin for example is 'only' 7,000. If Hilberg's 5.1 million is right, then this makes for a bare majority, if it's 5.2 million then half, if 5.3 million or more then just under half."
|
|