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Post by been_there on May 22, 2023 21:11:48 GMT
If this figure quoted above is accurate, then it is not unreasonable to ask how is that figure arrived at. A reasonable question of a genuine historiography that is supposedly extremely well supported by copious amounts of credible evidence, SHOULD be easy to answer. The holocaust mass-gassing claim is, after all, supposed to be the most evidenced narrative in known history. So upon what conclusive and irrefutable ‘evidence’ is this number based? As is expected, no answer is given. Instead the question is dodged. No return questions are permitted. A murder accusation is an extremely serious charge. A mass-murder accusation is even more so. Yet here we have a mass-murder charge where the total number of people supposedly mass-murdered — as opposed to just perished or missing after a colossal world war — isn’t even attempted to be evaluated. Not only that but the question is dodged. As has been posted elsewhere, those who are honest and familiar with the actual facts admit that there is no direct evidence of mass-murder in the alleged ‘extermination camps’. NONE! Zilch! [see here: rodoh.info/post/7416 ]What we actually have is only a claim of millions of missing people. And that, though tragic, is not exceptional. The exact fate of millions of missing Russian, Chinese and German civilians was not recorded either. And then we have the FACT that the precise mass-murder allegations (and confessions) made at the time and immediately after, have since been eventually acknowledged to be FALSE!! Instead of relying on conclusive, forensic evidence to prove mass-murder did occur, the accusers relied almost exclusively upon testimonial evidence. Normally the further in time from the events that testimonial evidence is given, the less reliable it is universally recognised to be. Yet here we have the largest mass-murder accusation in known history, and the immediate testimonial evidence upon which it is based had to be retroactively rejected in favour of later, amended, corrected, retroactively co-ordinated testimony. I.e. the EXACT opposite of what is normally favoured. To someone with steadfast and loyal faith in a belief-system, that isn’t a problem. For them belief trumps facts and evidence. But if anyone wants to approach the facts and the evidence scientifically, that is OBVIOUSLY not an acceptable nor reasonable approach. THIS is the problem, here. It seems to me that something similar to a distracting ‘sleight-of-hand’ conjurors trick has been — and still is being — employed with the numbers of missing Jews. Otherwise why can’t such simple and basic questions be answered by the believer in the Holocaust who claims they have based their belief on ‘evidence’? Here they are again: |
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 23, 2023 1:11:16 GMT
what happened to the Warsaw Jews who were transported from the ghetto to TII in 1942-43, or the 18 train loads of Dutch Jews sent from Westerbork to Sobibor in 1943, or the Hungarian Jews sent to A-B in 1944. The Warsaw Jews were civilian combatants and by law were liable to summary execution. Where they were executed is irrelevant. These people were far from innocent victims of nazi persecution. Stroop reported 110 German casualties. There is much speculation but little evidence of Warsaw Jews being sent to Treblinka II prior to the uprising. They may have been put on a Treblinka transport but got off at any number of locations. The Dutch survivors left with hundreds of others for the most part to work at labour camps for Jews. There is mention of euthanasia of the crippled and some "thought" people were gassed or shot based on hearsay. It is mentioned enough times that there were over 230 zwabgarbeitslager für juden in Austria, specifically for Hungarians. Even Lantos mentions of three major transports only one was destined for Birkenau; even then he is only using hearsay of their fate. Each labour camp in Austria could cater for 2 thousand people which would cater for 460 thousand Hungarian Jews. After the war the Jews were simply dispersed as has been their way for thousands of years. |
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Post by Nessie on May 23, 2023 10:25:16 GMT
If this figure quoted above is accurate, then it is not unreasonable to ask how is that figure arrived at. A reasonable question of a genuine historiography that is supposedly extremely well supported by copious amounts of credible evidence, SHOULD be easy to answer. The holocaust mass-gassing claim is, after all, supposed to be the most evidenced narrative in known history. So upon what conclusive and irrefutable ‘evidence’ is this number based? As is expected, no answer is given. Instead the question is dodged. No return questions are permitted. A murder accusation is an extremely serious charge. A mass-murder accusation is even more so. Yet here we have a mass-murder charge where the total number of people supposedly mass-murdered — as opposed to just perished or missing after a colossal world war — isn’t even attempted to be evaluated. Not only that but the question is dodged. As has been posted elsewhere, those who are honest and familiar with the actual facts admit that there is no direct evidence of mass-murder in the alleged ‘extermination camps’. NONE! Zilch! [see here: rodoh.info/post/7416 ]What we actually have is only a claim of millions of missing people. And that, though tragic, is not exceptional. The exact fate of millions of missing Russian, Chinese and German civilians was not recorded either. And then we have the FACT that the precise mass-murder allegations (and confessions) made at the time and immediately after, have since been eventually acknowledged to be FALSE!! Instead of relying on conclusive, forensic evidence to prove mass-murder did occur, the accusers relied almost exclusively upon testimonial evidence. Normally the further in time from the events that testimonial evidence is given, the less reliable it is universally recognised to be. Yet here we have the largest mass-murder accusation in known history, and the immediate testimonial evidence upon which it is based had to be retroactively rejected in favour of later, amended, corrected, retroactively co-ordinated testimony. I.e. the EXACT opposite of what is normally favoured. To someone with steadfast and loyal faith in a belief-system, that isn’t a problem. For them belief trumps facts and evidence. But if anyone wants to approach the facts and the evidence scientifically, that is OBVIOUSLY not an acceptable nor reasonable approach. THIS is the problem, here. It seems to me that something similar to a distracting ‘sleight-of-hand’ conjurors trick has been — and still is being — employed with the numbers of missing Jews. Otherwise why can’t such simple and basic questions be answered by the believer in the Holocaust who claims they have based their belief on ‘evidence’? Here they are again: Those very general questions about overall totals, do not need to be answered, before revisionists can answer what happened to the Warsaw Jews who were transported from the ghetto to TII in 1942-43, or the 18 train loads of Dutch Jews sent from Westerbork to Sobibor in 1943, or the Hungarian Jews sent to A-B in 1944. An informed answer to what happened to those people, would come from contemporaneous evidence from the Jews who were on the transports, the Nazis responsible for them, documents pertaining to their movement and the physical evidence of where they were subsequently accommodated. You are doing everything you can to dodge your inability to answer what happened to those specific Jews, if they were not killed at TII, Sobibor or the Kremas in Birkenau. |
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Post by been_there on May 23, 2023 14:35:18 GMT
Whenever I have been asked “so where did the missing Jews go, then”, I have always answered by admitting I don’t know where or what exactly happened to the “missing” Jews.
I have no reluctance to give that answer again now: I don’t know.
There.
The real denial regarding ‘holocaust’ history, is that those who claim millions were murdered in Aktion Reinhard gas-chambers, do not know what happened to them either.
They just ignorantly don’t understand and/or are too dishonest to admit this.
As we are witnessing. 🙂🤷🏼♂️
By the way, my questions that have just been predctably dodged in four answers (two off-topic insinuations and one reply repeated twice) are genuine questions that I would like an answer to.
So... does anyone else know what the official narrative says the answers to them are?
~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~
Q1.) what is the official, total number of Jews mass-murdered using gas during WW2, according to the custodians of the enforced and legally protected ‘holocaust’ narrative? And how is this figure arrived at?
Q2.) what — if there is one — is the official figure for deaths of Jews during WW2 by what can be called ‘collateral damage’? And if there isn’t a figure, why isn’t there?
Q3.) how many Jews in total were there in all the territories that came under the control of the German Third Reich?
Q3.) what is the official total figure of Jewish ‘survivors’ who emigrated out of Europe during and after the war?*
*According to the USHMM:
“In 1950, most Jews (51%) lived in the Americas (North and South combined)”.
Anybody know?
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Post by Nessie on May 23, 2023 16:00:34 GMT
Whenever I have been asked “so where did the missing Jews go, then”, I have always answered by admitting I don’t know where or what exactly happened to the “missing” Jews. I have no reluctance to give that answer again now: I don’t know. There. Is that not a rather strange admission? How can anyone not know where the millions of Jews kept under Nazi custody and control were, by the end of 1944 and on to liberation? Their presence would have left a lot of evidence. Instead, the Soviets found mostly empty camps, or only a few survivors, and the western Allies largest camp liberation was c60,000 at B-B, not all of whom were Jewish. If millions of Jews had not been gassed or shot, then why were millions of Jews not being liberated in 1945?
How does being murdered in gas chambers constitute not knowing what happened? The evidence is that ghettos were cleared to certain camps where the vast majority were gassed and some were selected to work. The people who had been gassed were buried, but to try and cover up what had happened, those bodies were then exhumed and cremated. So, we do not what happened. Those questions are off-topic. Please stay in topic. Giving you a figure as to how many were gassed, how many died as collateral damage, how many were under Nazi control and how many survived, does not answer the question "where did they go?". That question is answered by revisionist providing contemporaneous evidence of mass transports back out of the AR camps in 1942-3, or from Birkenau in 1944, after people had been processed there and where they were all being accommodated at the end of 1944. |
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Post by been_there on May 23, 2023 17:25:26 GMT
🙄 Another dodge of just four simple questions. Wow! This ironically demonstrates just how empty of actual, verifiable evidence the online defenders of this racist, anti-German, atrocity-propaganda are. Obviously these questions have huge significance to the question ‘where did they go!’. Only someone who doesn’t understand the narrative but just obediently ‘believes’ it would not get the significance. Where did who go exactly? And how many ‘missing people are we talking about? … … … … … …
“Of the______1 million Jews under Nazi control during WW2,
________2 million of them were ‘murdered’
and alas only ________3 million of them survived.”
… … … … … … Anyone of even the most mediocre intelligence would be able to understand that the three missing numbers in the above sentence are crucial to the narrative being credible... or not!!!
But let me spell it out for any intellect-challenged individuals reading.
The following claim is not credible “Of the four million Jews under Nazi control during WW2,
six million were ‘murdered’
and alas only five million survived”.
🤪
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Post by Nessie on May 23, 2023 19:32:14 GMT
🙄 Another dodge of just four simple questions. Wow! This ironically demonstrates just how empty of actual, verifiable evidence the online defenders of this racist, anti-German, atrocity-propaganda are. Wrong, those questions are off topic, and you are using them to dodge the topic, an irony missed by you. I have already given you examples. Where did the Warsaw Jews sent to TII in 1942-3, the Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor in 1943 and the Hungarian Jews sent to A-B in 1944, go, if they were not gassed? It would not be difficult for you to do your own research. You don't want to do that, because if millions of Jews were not gassed at the AR camps, Chelmno and A-B, then millions of Jews would have been liberated in 1945. Instead, the Soviets only found a few thousand and the western Allies a few hundred thousand. Every country the Nazis occupied reported a massive drop in their Jewish populations. Of the 34,000 Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor, only 18 are recorded as having returned to the Netherlands. Details like that are too challenging for you, so you just want vague estimates and to avoid that actual topic. |
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 24, 2023 3:59:07 GMT
How can anyone not know where the millions of Jews kept under Nazi custody and control were, by the end of 1944 and on to liberation? Their presence would have left a lot of evidence. Instead, the Soviets found mostly empty camps, or only a few survivors, and the western Allies largest camp liberation was c60,000 at B-B, not all of whom were Jewish. If millions of Jews had not been gassed or shot, then why were millions of Jews not being liberated in 1945? No one knows how many Jews there were, the statistical analysis is mere speculation. Even Korherr said in his report: The potential fabrication of Untermeyers figures is extremely problematic for the truth to be known. The presence of Jews left much evidence, the plethora of Jewish Labour Camps that moved west as the war progressed. There were thousands of such camps and more are being discovered daily it seems. While some camps were formal barbed wire affairs, most camps were run by the labour department and not the SS. There were minimal guards with similar security. When the Soviets arrived they would not have known that there existed previous camps in any area. Camps involved using town halls, churches etc, even barns and farm houses. It was explained with evidence that the camp workers simply walked out at wars end; the SS camps being different. As they fled they could not be liberated. It was a Jewish rout. The other factor is that due to minimal births, 2 million Jews would have died by natural attrition over the war years. In addition there is clearly the euthanasia program (14f13) as well as death by disease, starvation. Most of these deaths would have been near wars end due to lack of nutrition, extreme cold. While there are stories of Germans looking after Jews in that period, even Poles, these are the exception rather than the rule. The Jews were isolated lacking the skills to survive; they probably had no matches to even light a fire. |
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Post by Nessie on May 24, 2023 8:04:38 GMT
How can anyone not know where the millions of Jews kept under Nazi custody and control were, by the end of 1944 and on to liberation? Their presence would have left a lot of evidence. Instead, the Soviets found mostly empty camps, or only a few survivors, and the western Allies largest camp liberation was c60,000 at B-B, not all of whom were Jewish. If millions of Jews had not been gassed or shot, then why were millions of Jews not being liberated in 1945? No one knows how many Jews there were, the statistical analysis is mere speculation. Even Korherr said in his report: That we cannot get overall precise figures, does not therefore mean the question, "where did they go?" cannot be answered. There are instances of very precise figures, such as the number of Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor and how many remained at the end of the war. Wrong, because A-B kept records so it is possible to get a reliable figure from that. You ignore chronology and when places were operating, to create the false impression of thousands of camps still open in 1945. There is minimal evidence of Nazi abandonment. Instead, the evidence is of the Nazis moving the Jews west, with them, as they fled west. If the Nazis did abandon millions of Jews, then why did all occupied countries report of their Jewish populations, the majority never returned? Where did they go? You are wittering as you dodge answering the question. We know c1.5 million Jews were taken to the AR camps, up to 200,000 to Chelmno and c900,000 disappeared inside the A_B Kremas. Where did they go? |
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 24, 2023 22:01:21 GMT
That we cannot get overall precise figures, does not therefore mean the question, "where did they go?" cannot be answered. There are instances of very precise figures, such as the number of Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor and how many remained at the end of the war. As the majority of dutch people left Sobibor to work at various zwangarbeitslager how many remained is unrelated to that camp complex. The AB records mention natural mortality and the odd execution. Not at all there was a western drive. Here is the camps in 42  here are the camps in 45  It was not nazi abandondment but old men assigned by the labour department to guard the Jews. They were concerned with their own families and not about jewish workers. Most probably knew all was lost and couldn't care less; they were demoralized. Peter Lantos and other Hungarian jews tried to return home but were imprisoned. The Jews had no home to go to. You do not know that 1.5 million were taken to AR camps. It is this fiction that is your issue. Most of the Hungarians went to the Austrian labour camps. |
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Post by Nessie on May 25, 2023 7:21:45 GMT
That we cannot get overall precise figures, does not therefore mean the question, "where did they go?" cannot be answered. There are instances of very precise figures, such as the number of Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor and how many remained at the end of the war. As the majority of dutch people left Sobibor to work at various zwangarbeitslager how many remained is unrelated to that camp complex. The evidence is that only a few Dutch were selected on arrival at Sobibor and left. The rest were killed inside the camp. They also mention building gas chambers inside the Kremas for the special treatment of Jews, and those not selected for work were sent to the Kremas and gassed. Why did the Western Allies only liberate a few hundred thousand, when you claim millions of Jews survived. Where did they go? You do not have the evidence to support your claim of Hungarian resettlement in Austria. Why would the Nazis, short of resources, even do that? |
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 25, 2023 22:37:52 GMT
The evidence is that only a few Dutch were selected on arrival at Sobibor and left. The rest were killed inside the camp. This is on the basis of mere hearsay. Sophia Huisman says: . This belief is based on preconceived notions from propaganda. Jetse Veterman states clearly the reality: Nessie continues. Here are the camps for Hungarian Jews in Austria linkAs mentioned there is no resettlement, just labour camps. |
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Post by Nessie on May 26, 2023 11:26:11 GMT
The evidence is that only a few Dutch were selected on arrival at Sobibor and left. The rest were killed inside the camp. This is on the basis of mere hearsay. Sophia Huisman says: . This belief is based on preconceived notions from propaganda. Jetse Veterman states clearly the reality: You are cherry picking witnesses, quote mine, and then dishonestly suggest all the evidence for gassing is hearsay. Misrepresentation and dishonesty are how you maintain the Holocaust denial hoax. That is just a list of place names. Show me evidence that the Hungarian Jews not registered to work at A-B in 1944, were then sent to camps in Austria. Why were there no mass liberations of Hungarian Jews in Austria in 1945? |
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 26, 2023 11:45:30 GMT
You are cherry picking witnesses, quote mine, and then dishonestly suggest all the evidence for gassing is hearsay. Please show proof of a single gassed Jew. They are not place names but Zwangsarbeitslager für ungarische Juden in Österreich compiled by German researchers. They were not sent to Birkenau first but disembaked prior. Most never arrived in Birkenau. Like other labour camps the Jews simply slipped away at wars end. |
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Post by Nessie on May 26, 2023 15:04:27 GMT
You are cherry picking witnesses, quote mine, and then dishonestly suggest all the evidence for gassing is hearsay. Please show proof of a single gassed Jew. You have asked that, to deflect from your inability to evidence and prove no one was gassed in the AR camps, Chelmno or the A-B Kremas and what happened to all of those people instead. Assertions without evidence are a waste of time. Be honest and admit you have no evidence of millions of Jews in Nazi captivity at the end of 1944. |
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