Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,207 
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Post by Nessie on Nov 3, 2022 20:09:46 GMT
Unless you can provide evidence from witnesses, documents, photos or other evidence contemporaneous to 1941, then you should just admit you are unable to evidence anything other than they were shot. There were no independent witnesses to corroborate this apparent event. I said it was most likely few Jews remained. This is pure NKVD propaganda. What you believe on the flimsiest of propaganda rhetoric is your affair. Most likely a few partisans were shot, which morphed into the minds of the NKVD who thought "Lets make it 30 000 Jews". The NKVD were administered by Jews and used this lie for their own purposes. So you keep on telling me, it was an NKVD hoax. The topic is where did they go? I get that you do not want to admit that you have no evidence as to where they were at the end of 1941. So you just repeat yourself about the NKVD.
How about the Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor in 1943? Where did they go after they arrived at Sobibor?
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𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸
🕵️
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎
Posts: 1,457
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on Nov 3, 2022 20:29:44 GMT
So you keep on telling me, it was an NKVD hoax. The topic is where did they go? I get that you do not want to admit that you have no evidence as to where they were at the end of 1941. So you just repeat yourself about the NKVD. How about the Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor in 1943? Where did they go after they arrived at Sobibor? All the reports state that over a hundred thousand fled into Russia. Only a few thousand Jews remained and they were put into the labour camp when it was built in 42. The death narrative states 60 000 remained with 100 thousand fleeing, 30 odd thousand killed. Other reports state 150 thousand Jews fled. Of course these are estimates but the most likelihood considering all the information is that very few jews remained before the arrival of the Germans. The claim that 60 thousand remained is a fabrication in all likelihood. The evidence of no shooting is convincing. If that happened it would not take years for it to come to the Jewish attention or the Partisan groups who mention only some of their own shot. I think anyone has the nonce to read the Sobibor Jews who arrived and all left on the same transports apart from the decrepit who were euthanized. |
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Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,207
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Post by Nessie on Nov 4, 2022 8:16:35 GMT
So you keep on telling me, it was an NKVD hoax. The topic is where did they go? I get that you do not want to admit that you have no evidence as to where they were at the end of 1941. So you just repeat yourself about the NKVD. How about the Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor in 1943? Where did they go after they arrived at Sobibor? All the reports state that over a hundred thousand fled into Russia. Only a few thousand Jews remained and they were put into the labour camp when it was built in 42. [/quote] You have produced no evidence that the Jews who remained in Kiev when it was occupied in 1941 were then relocated by the Nazis to a camp in 1942. The OSRs were found in 1945 and Blobel, a chief in the EG admitted to mass shootings in his 1947 statement; www.holocausthistoricalsociety.org.uk/contents/einsatzgruppen/paulblobelaffidavit.htmlEvidence? You are far too reluctant at linking to contemporaneous evidence. |
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Post by Agandaur on Nov 4, 2022 8:21:52 GMT
Please prove the Jewish population of that city when the Germans arrive.
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Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,207
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Post by Nessie on Nov 4, 2022 9:16:00 GMT
Please prove the Jewish population of that city when the Germans arrive.
The EG reported in Oct 1941 that there had been at least 33,771 Jews in Kiev when they arrived in Sept.
The Jewish population was c160,000 prior to the Nazi occupation, of which c100,000 fled, leaving c60,000;
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Post by Agandaur on Nov 4, 2022 10:21:45 GMT
Please prove the Jewish population of that city when the Germans arrive. The EG reported in Oct 1941 that there had been at least 33,771 Jews in Kiev when they arrived in Sept.
The Jewish population was c160,000 prior to the Nazi occupation, of which c100,000 fled, leaving c60,000; It is more than possible this EG report is a fraud. What is critical is the 100 000. Please do no use Jewish sources for this but more information. What independent sources do you have for this critical information? |
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Post by been_there on Nov 4, 2022 12:07:10 GMT
Nazgul has demonstrated how the ’witness’ statements and ’documents’ only manifested years afterwards. You are in denial of this reality. ..... You claimed in your previous post;
"You ignore the lack of any corroborative ”physical evidence”.
You are in denial why there is no supporting empirical ”physical evidence”.
I linked to a post which proves that to not be true.
[oh boy! 🙄] A link to a true-believer holyhoax website is obviously not ’evidence’. It is definitely not unbiased. This reply from you confirms my previous assessment of your dire inability to comprehend simple sentences. Debating with you is therefore not possible. I predict you will ignore this / fail to comprehend this and will continue to challenge me to a debate. Further proving my point. |
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Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,207
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Post by Nessie on Nov 4, 2022 14:59:39 GMT
The EG reported in Oct 1941 that there had been at least 33,771 Jews in Kiev when they arrived in Sept.
The Jewish population was c160,000 prior to the Nazi occupation, of which c100,000 fled, leaving c60,000; It is more than possible this EG report is a fraud. What is critical is the 100 000. Please do no use Jewish sources for this but more information. What independent sources do you have for this critical information? There are plenty of sources of the historical narrative for the Nazi occupation of Kiev;
Because I can show you evidence, you have to think up reasons to ignore that evidence. When ask for the revisionist evidence of what happened.........nothing.
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Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,207
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Post by Nessie on Nov 4, 2022 15:07:01 GMT
You claimed in your previous post; "You ignore the lack of any corroborative ”physical evidence”.
You are in denial why there is no supporting empirical ”physical evidence”. I linked to a post which proves that to not be true.
[oh boy! 🙄] A link to a true-believer holyhoax website is obviously not ’evidence’. It is definitely not unbiased. I linked to a post of mine, where I said "The evidence for Babi Yar primarily came from witnesses and circumstantial evidence." and "The Soviets never did any detailed physical examination of any Holocaust site." and "...no modern day excavations are possible. Revisionists cannot even be shown exactly where the ravines were..." and "There is no point in asking to be shown the ravines and the human remains. It cannot be done." You were wrong to claim I have ignored the lack of corroborating physical evidence and that I am in denial, as to why that is. There is a lack of corroborating physical evidence because the Soviets did very little to survey the site and now it cannot be surveyed. The websites I linked to evidence what I have said about the lack of physical evidence. You make claims, I refute them, you then refuse to debate me.
I am still waiting for you to back up this claim
"You concentrate on later, retro-active ’poor-jew’ mythologies."
and this claim
"You rely soley upon unsupported, non-corroborated, retro-actively created mythological, lying, exaggerated, atrocity-propaganda deceptions."
with linked to examples. I predict you will continue to ignore my request and further prove my point that you are incapable of debating me, when it comes to request for you to evidence your claims.
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Post by Agandaur on Nov 4, 2022 18:20:01 GMT
I predict you will continue to ignore my request and further prove my point that you are incapable of debating me, when it comes to request for you to evidence your claims. An open ended debate is of little use; this poster has assumed people are taking sides when in fact they want clarity. I want some evidence of the reality of the Jewish population in Kiev; there are various reports. To use one set of numbers at variance with others is mere cherry picking to suit a cause. What real evidence is there that Jews of such numbers were in that city at that time apart from speculation. So far we have a circular argument. The EGruppen said they killed 33000 (or whatever) which proves that that many people were there, so the EG report must be true. The so called other Historians are using the same cherry picked data. All this data appeared years after the alleged event. |
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Post by Agandaur on Nov 4, 2022 18:40:18 GMT
There are plenty of sources of the historical narrative for the Nazi occupation of Kiev; Because I can show you evidence, you have to think up reasons to ignore that evidence. When ask for the revisionist evidence of what happened.........nothing. The same encyclopaedias have to support the narrative depending on those in charge of it wish to morph. They have no idea of the number of Labour camps for Jews that we now know in those areas, nor that all the trains Nazgul said stopped at those places en-route to Treblinka on two lines and on the return trip. The 650 camps in Ostland were unknown and to be honest many are still unknown. To be Frank you are putting a case forward on faulty data, deliberate or not is another issue. |
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Post by been_there on Nov 5, 2022 9:57:32 GMT
It is more than possible this EG report is a fraud. What is critical is the 100 000. Please do no use Jewish sources for this but more information. What independent sources do you have for this critical information? There are plenty of sources of the historical narrative for the Nazi occupation of Kiev; Again another quite astoundingly stupid reply. Obviously an encyclopedia is a compository of consensus understandings and beliefs. It is not a primary source but a distillation of contemporary attitudes to the primary sources. The entry in the encylopedia Brittanica (or ANY encylopedia) on anything to do with the LEGALLY PROTECTED holyhoax-massgassing-genocide religion is OBVIOUSLY not going to question beliefs that Jews have made it criminal to approach with skepticism. So obviously referring to this encylopedic entry is not an intellgent reply. Again proving that this person is quite incapable of well-informed, rational debate. We are dealing with an ignoramus with a cultish true-believer approach. |
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Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,207
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Post by Nessie on Nov 5, 2022 10:10:25 GMT
I predict you will continue to ignore my request and further prove my point that you are incapable of debating me, when it comes to request for you to evidence your claims. An open ended debate is of little use; this poster has assumed people are taking sides when in fact they want clarity. I want some evidence of the reality of the Jewish population in Kiev; there are various reports. To use one set of numbers at variance with others is mere cherry picking to suit a cause. What real evidence is there that Jews of such numbers were in that city at that time apart from speculation. So far we have a circular argument. The EGruppen said they killed 33000 (or whatever) which proves that that many people were there, so the EG report must be true. The so called other Historians are using the same cherry picked data. All this data appeared years after the alleged event. You are scrabbling about because the only contemporaneous evidence is that the Nazis shot the Jews who remained in Kiev. You are unable to evidence they survived and what happened to them.
The documents, witnesses and circumstantial evidence corroborates and proves mass shootings. That is not a circular argument, that is how evidence works.
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Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,207
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Post by Nessie on Nov 5, 2022 10:11:58 GMT
There are plenty of sources of the historical narrative for the Nazi occupation of Kiev; Because I can show you evidence, you have to think up reasons to ignore that evidence. When ask for the revisionist evidence of what happened.........nothing. The same encyclopaedias have to support the narrative depending on those in charge of it wish to morph. They have no idea of the number of Labour camps for Jews that we now know in those areas, nor that all the trains Nazgul said stopped at those places en-route to Treblinka on two lines and on the return trip. The 650 camps in Ostland were unknown and to be honest many are still unknown. To be Frank you are putting a case forward on faulty data, deliberate or not is another issue. All you have is excuses to try and dismiss the evidence I produce, as you cannot produce any evidence at all. You make bold assertions, that are unevidenced. You have no evidence. |
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Nessie
✍️
𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿
Posts: 5,207
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Post by Nessie on Nov 5, 2022 10:20:52 GMT
There are plenty of sources of the historical narrative for the Nazi occupation of Kiev; Again another quite astoundingly stupid reply. Obviously an encyclopedia is a compository of consensus understandings and beliefs. It is not a primary source but a distillation of contemporary attitudes to the primary sources. The entry in the encylopedia Brittanica (or ANY encylopedia) on anything to do with the LEGALLY PROTECTED holyhoax-massgassing-genocide religion is OBVIOUSLY not going to question beliefs that Jews have made it criminal to approach with skepticism. So obviously referring to this encylopedic entry is not an intellgent reply. Again proving that this person is quite incapable of well-informed, rational debate. We are dealing with an ignoramus with a cultish true-believer approach. Nazgul asked for a non Jewish source of the narrative of what happened, so I produced one. No matter the source of the narrative as to what happened at Kiev in 1941, they all agree, because of the evidence.
What you lack understanding of, is evidence. If you want to challenge the narrative of mass murder of Jews by the Nazis, you need evidence. Evidence from witnesses, documents, archaeology, circumstances etc. Revisionists cannot produce any evidence of any alternative and instead they challenge the evidence of the mass killings without being able to evidence what did happen. Because revisionism is made up of people who do not understand evidence and logic, they do not see how that methodology is flawed.
The cultish true believer is you. You demand we reject the evidence and start to accept narratives that are unevidenced and you attack anyone who disagrees with you by making allegations of a legally protected conspiracy to hide what did happen and suggestions everyone who accepts the evidence is an idiot. You do that, because you have no evidence.
Evidence, you need evidence! Go away and come back with evidence.
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