mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 28, 2022 16:44:43 GMT
I gave the caveats to the calculations before I began them so go ahead and continue with your lies, Nessie. You're lying and you know it so there's no point in attempting to rebut your spurious claim. Did you miss out the Lazarette area or not? Either way, is it relevant? Fair enough if you want to go back and forth on this point. But if you want me and others to read it then, again, let's break it down Unless you actually wanted me to read through the posts to see who is right about including the lazarette or if it even matters. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 28, 2022 17:05:10 GMT
mrolonzo wrote:
No, the lazarette was the building where the physically debilitated were supposedly taken to be shot. It had a pit for burning the cadavers. It was said that the prisoners were shot with a pistol or a machinegun. There was no fuel to cremate the cadavers but Czarny testified at a deportation hearing that there is a chemical in blood that causes it to be flammable so it could act as the fuel for the cremations. Rajchman also claimed in his book that blood was flammable. In any event, the lazarette had one pit for cremating cadavers.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 28, 2022 18:26:45 GMT
mrolonzo wrote: No, the lazarette was the building where the physically debilitated were supposedly taken to be shot. It had a pit for burning the cadavers. It was said that the prisoners were shot with a pistol or a machinegun. There was no fuel to cremate the cadavers but Czarny testified at a deportation hearing that there is a chemical in blood that causes it to be flammable so it could act as the fuel for the cremations. Rajchman also claimed in his book that blood was flammable. In any event, the lazarette had one pit for cremating cadavers. Wiernik's model has either two or three graves in the Lazarette. There is a small pit bottom left, which may be for rubbish, and then two larger pits where the number 15 is located. The Totenlager is to the right with two smaller and one larger pit.
The Stangl trial plan has two pits in the Lazarette, bottom right and 5 in the Totenlager, coloured yellow;
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 28, 2022 23:54:41 GMT
Nessie wrote:
LOL! If that's the case then Wiernik shows only three graves inside the totenlager with well over half of it being taken up with the murder equipment. Your claim is asinine, Nessie.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 29, 2022 8:20:15 GMT
Nessie wrote: LOL! If that's the case then Wiernik shows only three graves inside the totenlager with well over half of it being taken up with the murder equipment. Your claim is asinine, Nessie. Which means we do not have precise dimensions for the Totenlager, which means the 4.53 hectares of grave and stockpile for the graves would easily fit inside the Totenlager and Lazarette, inside a 17 hectare camp.
You accused me of lying, but refused to say what the lies were. Fact is, by your own calculations, you have proved TII could fit the mass graves.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 29, 2022 8:34:11 GMT
No, it means that the graves and stockpiles have to be greater than 4.53 hectares. The actual size of the graves and stockpiles is unknown but, by definition, must be greater then 4.53 hectares so tell me, are you lying or are you really that thick?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 29, 2022 9:01:39 GMT
No, it means that the graves and stockpiles have to be greater than 4.53 hectares. The actual size of the graves and stockpiles is unknown but, by definition, must be greater then 4.53 hectares so tell me, are you lying or are you really that thick? Your initial calculation in the OP was 4.53 hectares. You made no mention it was a minimum. Instead, you said it did not leave much space for the gas chambers, walkways etc. You have now had to claim it is a minimum, because I have pointed out that 4.53 hectares, plus gas chambers etc, fits into the the 5.66 hectare Totenlager, especially when the 2 hectare Lazarette had some of the graves from the 4.53 total.
Your initial calculation fitted, so you are now trying to argue it was bigger. If, by definition, the surface space of the graves and stockpile must be greater than the 4.53 figure you provided in the OP, why did you not provide that figure?
Why are you trying to argue that in a 17 hectare camp, there was not enough space for graves and stockpile that was larger than 4.53? Even if it was 50% larger, at 6.79 hectares, it could fit. The Totenlager and Lazarette together are an estimated 7.66 hectares.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 29, 2022 9:13:40 GMT
Nessie wrote:
I gave the caveats that the calculations for the area of the graves and stockpiles was for one continuous grave and made no provision for the grave's top cover. Nessie is lying.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 29, 2022 9:26:26 GMT
Nessie wrote: I gave the caveats that the calculations for the area of the graves and stockpiles was for one continuous grave and made no provision for the grave's top cover. Nessie is lying. If one grave of 18,120m2 is spilt into 10 graves, what is the total surface area?
If one stockpile of 27,180m2 is split into 10 stockpiles, what is the total surface area?
The answer is they both have the same surface area.
You did indeed make no provision for top cover, but you also made no provision for the Lazarette and the graves there, which reduces the space used inside the Totenlager.
It is not clear what I lied about. I have used your figures and pointed out the extra space still inside the Totenlager and Lazarette and the overall space inside the camp. TII, at 17 hectares had space for a Totenlager and Lazarette containing mass graves and stockpile that was larger than 4.53 hectares.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 29, 2022 9:33:19 GMT
Quit your lying, Nessie. It's tiresome.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 29, 2022 9:38:53 GMT
Quit your lying, Nessie. It's tiresome. What lying?
Your 4.53 calculation leaves space for gas chambers, barracks, a pyre and top cover etc inside the Totenlager and Lazarette inside a 17 hectare camp. Even if your calculation is made 50% larger, it still fits!
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 29, 2022 9:56:07 GMT
Nessie doubles down on his lies (shrug). Bottom line, there wasn't enough room in the 5.66 hectare totenlager for the murder facilities, the graves and their stockpiles of ex.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 29, 2022 10:12:42 GMT
Nessie doubles down on his lies (shrug). Bottom line, there wasn't enough room in the 5.66 hectare totenlager for the murder facilities, the graves and their stockpiles of ex. What lies?
Graves - 18,120m2, or 1.81 hectares
Stockpile - 27,180m2, or 2.72 hectares One barracks the size of an A-B barracks - 389.4m2, or 0.039 hectare A pyre of 100m by 20m - 2000m2, or 0.2 hectare A gas chamber of 100m by 20m - 200m2, or 0.2 hectare
Total so far of 4.97 hectares. That leaves 0.69 hectare. Not yet taken into account is cover and space between multiple graves, which takes up the space needed in the Totenlager, and then the grave space in the Lazarette, which reduces the space needed in the Totenlager.
Even if that is a minimum, the Totenlager and Lazarette are inside a camp of 17 hectares, which could easily accommodate a larger area of graves and stockpile.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 29, 2022 10:19:11 GMT
Sell your lies down the street. The murder facilities took up at least one fourth of the totenlager area. There wasn't sufficient room in the totenlager to contain the graves, stockpiles of ex and the murder facilities.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 29, 2022 10:21:56 GMT
Sell your lies down the street. The murder facilities took up at least one fourth of the totenlager area. There wasn't sufficient room in the totenlager to contain the graves, stockpiles of ex and the murder facilities. Show your calculations. Be specific. Show the surface area of each facility. |
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