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Post by Nessie on Jun 27, 2022 17:46:04 GMT
Nessie wrote: Because that was a limit that could be calculated with available information. It was a straightforward calculation that produced a result you did not want, so you have spent time backtracking and making a fool of yourself. A barracks at AB was 35.4m by 11m, or 389.4m2, or 0.039 of a hectare. The gas chambers, say at twice the size of a barracks is 0.078 hectares, total for the two is 0.117 hectares. Add on the pyre, which we say is 100m by 20m or 0.2 of a hectare and that is now 0.317 of a hectare, which will easily fit into 1.41 hectares. You ignore the Lazarette grave(s) and there is still plenty of space in the 5.66 hectare Totenlager after subtracting the 0.317 for the buildings and pyre and 4.53 for the graves and stockpile, 0.813 to be exact. Your calculations prove the graves would fit.


Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 27, 2022 17:49:56 GMT
Nessie wrote: Trying to teach Nessie mathematics is indeed a hopeless task. NO, the M&H dragline couldn't dig a 4X20 meter pit. It couldn't dig a pit any larger than 32 cubic meters per meter of grave. That could be doubled to 64 cubic meters if a double cone stockpile was built. One on each side of the grave but none of the sketches or models show double cone stockpiles. In any event that's still less than your 80 cubic meter of ex per meter of grave. Lukaszkiewcz's claim that the mass graves disappeared after they were used to bury the cadavers is absurd. So is your claim that CSC's claims are "corroborated" and Krege's claims weren't. You edited and replied to my post before it was removed by a moderator.
The M&H was mobile, so it could dig a pit any length or width. Its boom only restricts depth.


Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 28, 2022 3:17:57 GMT
Nessie wrote:
That's why I added the caveats about the calculation being for a continuous grave that used all of its cubic content for burial space before I began the calculations. The result isn't dependent on what I did or didn't "want". It shows one of the absurdities of holyhoaxer claims.
Nessie linked to maps and sketches of Treblinka on the "Death Camps" site. He's now trying walk that back with a claim that the maps are inaccurate or by ignoring what the maps show. There's multiple maps of Treblinka and ALL of them show at least one fourth of the totenlager being used for the murder facilities. That of course knocks Nessie's theory that the graves could fit inside the totenlager into a cocked hat so he's now sputtering about the maps being inaccurate, not to scale and so on.
Nessie is apparently assuming that the murder facilities all fit together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. That's utterly absurd since the sonnderkommando barracks, it's barbed wire enclosure and assembly area for the prisoners is on one side of the totenlager and the new gas chamber is on the opposite side. Nessie frantically tries to ignore that fact. He also attempts to ignore the fact that the 4.53 hectares is the limit minimum for the size of the graves and that the actual graves would take up an unknown but greater amount of space.
Stamp your feet and shriek all you want, Nessie, but the totenlager wasn't large enough to contain the murder facilities and the graves. Finito. End of story.


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Post by Turnagain on Jun 28, 2022 3:45:46 GMT
Nessie wrote:
(sigh) Without auxiliary equipment the M&H dragline could dig a pit that contained 32 cubic meters of ex per meter of excavation for as long as you wanted to dig. Adding the fluff, that creates about 36 cubic meters of actual ex.
The depth of the excavation is limited by the amount of cable on the spool and the width of the excavation. Theoretically the excavation could be one foot wide and about 100 meters deep. Under no circumstances could the M&H dig a pit of more than 32 cubic meters of ex per meter of excavation without auxiliary equipment to haul the ex away from the excavation.
I can't understand why such simple concepts are so incomprehensible to Nessie. This isn't differential calculus, just some very simple trigonometric and arithmetic functions.


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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 28, 2022 7:27:01 GMT
Nessie wrote: Because that was a limit that could be calculated with available information. It was a straightforward calculation that produced a result you did not want, so you have spent time backtracking and making a fool of yourself. A barracks at AB was 35.4m by 11m, or 389.4m2, or 0.039 of a hectare. The gas chambers, say at twice the size of a barracks is 0.078 hectares, total for the two is 0.117 hectares. Add on the pyre, which we say is 100m by 20m or 0.2 of a hectare and that is now 0.317 of a hectare, which will easily fit into 1.41 hectares. You ignore the Lazarette grave(s) and there is still plenty of space in the 5.66 hectare Totenlager after subtracting the 0.317 for the buildings and pyre and 4.53 for the graves and stockpile, 0.813 to be exact. Your calculations prove the graves would fit. What is the actual size of the camp and how do you know this?


Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 28, 2022 9:04:07 GMT
mrolonzo wrote:
Good luck finding that and post it if you do. CSC posts some maps with scales but no actual numbers that I can find. No matter what you use for a search if it uses "Treblinka" the search engines I can access go straight to "Treblinka was a terrible murder camp run by the eeevul Narzis..." and nothing relevant to what I want to know.
I don't have the necessary equipment to accurately measure CSC's maps but from a tape measure and eyeballs the dimensions for Treblinka were side A, 500 meters, side B, 267 meters, side C, 300 meters and side D, 467 meters. I don't have a protractor for the angles and those numbers are barely one step above a guess. Some sources claim that Treblinka was 13 hectares and others claim 17 hectares and that's from Wikipedia. Real evidence about Treblinka is sparse indeed.


nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Jun 28, 2022 9:14:27 GMT
What is the actual size of the camp and how do you know this? The current TII is probably not the same camp Wiernik is describing. His map speaks volumes.


Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 28, 2022 14:28:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: That's why I added the caveats about the calculation being for a continuous grave that used all of its cubic content for burial space before I began the calculations. The result isn't dependent on what I did or didn't "want". It shows one of the absurdities of holyhoaxer claims. Nessie linked to maps and sketches of Treblinka on the "Death Camps" site. He's now trying walk that back with a claim that the maps are inaccurate or by ignoring what the maps show. There's multiple maps of Treblinka and ALL of them show at least one fourth of the totenlager being used for the murder facilities. As you say, at least one fourth, with many showing a third and some more than that, especially when the graves in the Lazarette are taken into account. You said the grave and stockpile surface area would be 4.53 hectares, which fits into a 17 hectare camp, where 5.66 is allocated to the Totenlager and some graves were in the Lazarette, which takes the total to more like 7.66 hectares. You have declared it the minimum because you are trying to argue there is not enough space in the Totenlager, as you ignore at least 1, but going by most plans there were two mass graves in the Lazarette. You are the one getting frantic, trying to claim that a barracks, gas chambers, pyre and walkways would take up over 1.13 hectares. That is why you will not discuss barracks and gas chambers sizes with me!


Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 28, 2022 14:37:40 GMT
What is the actual size of the camp and how do you know this? The current TII is probably not the same camp Wiernik is describing. His map speaks volumes. This is a plan of the gas chambers attributed to Wiernik;
This is a plan of the camp as a whole, also attributed to Wiernik;
They look like they have been done by different people. This discussion is about the mass graves in the TII camp on the railway leading to the Treblinka quarry. Your thoughts on what camp is what, are not relevant. The whole camp map has grave areas in the Totenlager and Lazarette.


Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 28, 2022 15:48:31 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie lies about what I've said (shrug). No point in trying to rebut a straight up lie.


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Post by Nessie on Jun 28, 2022 15:56:35 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie lies about what I've said (shrug). No point in trying to rebut a straight up lie. Here is your calculation from the OP
"We know from the calculation and the photographic evidence that the M&H mB could dig a grave no larger than 32 cubic meters of ex per meter of grave. That presents us with the possible sizes of the grave ranging from 1 meter deep and 32 meters wide and 32 meters deep and 1 meter wide. For convenience we can assume a grave 4 meters deep and 8 meters wide for every meter of grave. Pits is pits and 32 cubic meters equals 32 cubic meters. None of the above is an argument from incredulity or any other kind of an argument. It's just a fact that must be taken into consideration. The M&H mB can dig a pit and stockpile the ex from a pit 4 meters deep, 8 meters wide and as long as you want to continue digging.
We know that approximately 725,000 cadavers were claimed to have been buried at Treblinka. At 8 cadavers per cubic meter, a very generous estimate to account for children and compression, we will need 90,625 cubic meters of grave space to accommodate the 725,000 cadavers. That's grave space and doesn't account for any top cover for the graves. From that it's seen that the 4 meter by 8 meter grave would necessarily be 2.3 kilometers (2265 meters) long. That's 18,120 square meters of grave.
Then we have the area of the stockpile. At 6 meters tall and an angle of repose of 45 degrees for damp sand the stockpile will have to be 12 meters wide including fluff. Multiply height and length and the stockpile of ex will total 27,180 square meters and a total of 45,300 square meters or 4.53 hectares. That's for one continuous grave. If each grave was 100 meters long then 23 (22.65) graves would be required. Bear in mind that leaves no room for walkways or wagons/light rail to deliver the cadavers to the graves."


Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 28, 2022 16:17:07 GMT
I gave the caveats to the calculations before I began them so go ahead and continue with your lies, Nessie. You're lying and you know it so there's no point in attempting to rebut your spurious claim.


Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 28, 2022 16:24:07 GMT
I gave the caveats to the calculations before I began them so go ahead and continue with your lies, Nessie. You're lying and you know it so there's no point in attempting to rebut your spurious claim. I know you gave caveats. A caveat you ignore is that some of the grave and stockpile area was in the Lazarette, which means more space inside the Totenlager to fit the barracks, gas chambers, pyre and walkways round the graves.
In a 17 hectare camp, there is enough space for a minimum of 4.53 hectares of grave and stockpile split between the Totenlager and Lazarette.


Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 28, 2022 16:32:27 GMT
Nessie continues his lies.


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Post by Nessie on Jun 28, 2022 16:36:07 GMT
Nessie continues his lies. What lies?

