Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 26, 2022 15:41:12 GMT
Nessie pretends that he doesn't understand the meaning of the word "ONLY". Whether it's pretense or stupidity, sell it down the street. The 4.53 hectares was ONLY the space needed for the graves and stockpile.
MORE space is needed for the gas chambers, barracks and walkways between the graves.
In a 5.66 hectare space, the size of the Totenlager, subtract the 4.53 for the graves and stockpile and you are left with 1.13 hectares to fit the gas chambers, barracks and walkways.
The barracks and gas chambers take up 0.117 hectares. That leaves 1.01 hectares of space around the graves.
A US football field is 0.446 hectares.
It is easy to see how the graves, stockpile, gas chambers, barracks and walkways fits inside the Totenlager.
Totenlager - 5.66 hectares Graves and stockpile - 4.53 hectares Barracks and gas chambers - 0.117 hectares Space left - 1.01 hectares
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 26, 2022 17:41:20 GMT
The totenlager was 5.66 hectares. One fourth of that space or 1.425 hectares was taken up by the gas chambers, the pyres and the sonnderkommando's barracks. The 4.53 hectares for the graves doesn't include the top cover. How much was that? One meter? A half meter? A third of a meter? Those are unknowns and can't be calculated. If it was one meter then 24 cubic meters of grave was available and 192 cadavers could be buried per meter of grave. If a half meter then 28 cubic meters would be available and 224 cadavers could be buried per meter of grave. If there was one meter of top cover then the graves would have to be 3.24 km long. See how that works? So we have 2-3 kilometers of grave space. That won't fit inside the totenlager so we have to have multiple graves. Are the graves 50 meters long? 75 meters? 100 meters? 150 meters? That's another unknown. Each grave requires access to it. What size is the access way? Same problem, it's an unknown and can't be calculated. The 4.53 hectares is a base number and shows a minimum not the actual area required for the graves.
Your claim that the murder facilities used only 0.117 hectare is laughable. The new gas chamber was on one side of the totenlager and the barracks were on the opposite side. They didn't sit side by side. The cremation grates were between the new gas chamber and the graves. ALL of the complete maps from "Death Camps" show the murder facilities taking up at least one fourth of the totenlager area. There wasn't sufficient room in the totenlager for both the graves and the murder facilities. That's if the M&H dragline dug and stockpiled the graves. Are you going to dust off your mystery machine or find a way to reduce the number of cadavers that were buried? |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 26, 2022 18:39:23 GMT
The totenlager was 5.66 hectares. One fourth of that space or 1.425 hectares was taken up by the gas chambers, the pyres and the sonnderkommando's barracks. Evidence that claim. I have evidenced a barracks was 0.039 of a hectare and a gas chamber twice that. If the pyre was 100m by 25m, that would be 0.25 of a hectare, so 0.367 of a hectare in total. Now you have seen that 4.53 will easily fit inside 5.66 you are trying to expand the size of graves and stockpile, whilst admitting you are estimating and guessing! I estimated it is twice the size of a barracks, so 0.078 hectares or about 40m by 20m. How large do you think the gas chambers were? You are estimating, based on drawn plans, often with no scale and you are still ignoring that some of the graves are in the Lazarette, so the actual area for graves and stockpile is larger, which correspondingly means less grave/stockpile in the Totenlager and so more space for the gas chambers, barracks and pyre. The camp was 17 hectares. It was clearly big enough for the graves, stockpile and buuildings. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 26, 2022 19:02:29 GMT
LOL! Nessie is desperately trying to spin his claim that the totenlager could contain as many as 33 100 meter graves inside it along with the murder facilities. There was one pit for burning cadavers in the lazarette but Nessie declares that the entire lazarette area consisted of the building and multiple graves. He conveniently ignores the fact that I said the grave space didn't include the top cover.
Note that Nessie refuses to answer my question about the dimensions of the camp. Gee, why is that, Nessie? Cat got your tongue? Don't wanna' talk about that?
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 26, 2022 19:03:40 GMT
The totenlager was 5.66 hectares. One fourth of that space or 1.425 hectares was taken up by the gas chambers, the pyres and the sonnderkommando's barracks. Evidence that claim. I have evidenced a barracks was 0.039 of a hectare and a gas chamber twice that. If the pyre was 100m by 25m, that would be 0.25 of a hectare, so 0.367 of a hectare in total. Now you have seen that 4.53 will easily fit inside 5.66 you are trying to expand the size of graves and stockpile, whilst admitting you are estimating and guessing! I estimated it is twice the size of a barracks, so 0.078 hectares or about 40m by 20m. How large do you think the gas chambers were? You are estimating, based on drawn plans, often with no scale and you are still ignoring that some of the graves are in the Lazarette, so the actual area for graves and stockpile is larger, which correspondingly means less grave/stockpile in the Totenlager and so more space for the gas chambers, barracks and pyre. The camp was 17 hectares. It was clearly big enough for the graves, stockpile and buuildings. " Evidence that claim. I have evidenced a barracks was 0.039 of a hectare and a gas chamber twice that" Could you show that please? |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 27, 2022 7:46:37 GMT
LOL! Nessie is desperately trying to spin his claim that the totenlager could contain as many as 33 100 meter graves inside it along with the murder facilities. There was one pit for burning cadavers in the lazarette but Nessie declares that the entire lazarette area consisted of the building and multiple graves. He conveniently ignores the fact that I said the grave space didn't include the top cover. What is the top cover? What question? You regularly edit down my posts to dodge my questions. You refused to acknowledge that by your calculations, there was space left in the Totenlager for the gas chambers, barracks and walkways that was the equivalent of three US football pitches. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 27, 2022 7:49:30 GMT
Evidence that claim. I have evidenced a barracks was 0.039 of a hectare and a gas chamber twice that. If the pyre was 100m by 25m, that would be 0.25 of a hectare, so 0.367 of a hectare in total. Now you have seen that 4.53 will easily fit inside 5.66 you are trying to expand the size of graves and stockpile, whilst admitting you are estimating and guessing! I estimated it is twice the size of a barracks, so 0.078 hectares or about 40m by 20m. How large do you think the gas chambers were? You are estimating, based on drawn plans, often with no scale and you are still ignoring that some of the graves are in the Lazarette, so the actual area for graves and stockpile is larger, which correspondingly means less grave/stockpile in the Totenlager and so more space for the gas chambers, barracks and pyre. The camp was 17 hectares. It was clearly big enough for the graves, stockpile and buuildings. " Evidence that claim. I have evidenced a barracks was 0.039 of a hectare and a gas chamber twice that" Could you show that please? In the post here, which is just a few posts up the page!
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 27, 2022 9:41:43 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Top cover is the amount of earth that you use to cover the body in a grave. In the US that amounts to about 3-4 feet of earth on top of a casket. That's why I said that 4.53 hectares was the space necessary to contain the 725,000 cadavers only and not the volume of the entire grave. The amount of top cover is unknown so it can't be calculated. Neither is the number of graves known.
I asked you for the dimensions of the entire camp. It was a trapezoid so how long was side A, side B and so on.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 27, 2022 10:07:30 GMT
Nessie wrote: Top cover is the amount of earth that you use to cover the body in a grave. In the US that amounts to about 3-4 feet of earth on top of a casket. That's why I said that 4.53 hectares was the space necessary to contain the 725,000 cadavers only and not the volume of the entire grave. The amount of top cover is unknown so it can't be calculated. Neither is the number of graves known. Why would the top cover not just come from the stockpile? How does top cover change the space you calculated, of 4.53 hectares, for the graves and stockpile? You are scrbbling about to find excuses to dismiss your own claims, now you realise that 4.53 fits into the 5.6 Totenlager, so ruining your argument from incredulity about grave space. I don't know. You could try and find out yourself, or do you need me to hold your hand and help you? I would suggest you start here; etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/3531/1/SturdyColls12PhD.pdf |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 27, 2022 10:33:38 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Of course the top cover would come from the stockpile of ex. What the hell does that have to do with anything?
This is bizarre. The 4.53 hectares is the area necessary to contain the 725,000 cadavers. I stated that as plainly as I could at the beginning of my calculations. It's UNKNOWN how much earth was used to cover the cadavers but however much it was it would increase the total volume of the graves. I calculated the volume of space needed for containing the cadavers as one continuous grave since the number of graves is also an UNKNOWN. 4.53 hectares is a base number for the volume of the graves, a minimum. It doesn't represent the total volume for an unknown number of graves and an unknown amount of earth used to cover the cadavers.
In any event, the maps show that the space needed for even the 4.53 hectares of graves is lacking. Given that the graves were dug with the M&H dragline, the totenlager wasn't large enough to contain the graves for 725,000 cadavers.
If you don't know the dimensions of the camp just say so.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 27, 2022 12:53:49 GMT
Nessie wrote: Of course the top cover would come from the stockpile of ex. What the hell does that have to do with anything? This is bizarre. The 4.53 hectares is the area necessary to contain the 725,000 cadavers. I stated that as plainly as I could at the beginning of my calculations. It's UNKNOWN how much earth was used to cover the cadavers but however much it was it would increase the total volume of the graves. I calculated the volume of space needed for containing the cadavers as one continuous grave since the number of graves is also an UNKNOWN. 4.53 hectares is a base number for the volume of the graves, a minimum. It doesn't represent the total volume for an unknown number of graves and an unknown amount of earth used to cover the cadavers. In any event, the maps show that the space needed for even the 4.53 hectares of graves is lacking. Given that the graves were dug with the M&H dragline, the totenlager wasn't large enough to contain the graves for 725,000 cadavers. You said that 4.53 hectares was the surface area for the graves and stockpile. That fits into 5.66 hectares, which is the approximate area of the Totenlager, but it could have been larger, since the whole camp was 17 hectares. Since at least one of the graves was inside the Lazarette, that means even more space inside the Totenlager. Fact is, your own figures show TII could fit such mass graves. I just did. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 27, 2022 13:04:59 GMT
Nessie is either pretending or is actually that stupid.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 27, 2022 13:07:31 GMT
Nessie is either pretending or is actually that stupid. You are claiming 4.53 hectares cannot fit inside 5.66 hectares. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 27, 2022 13:57:17 GMT
Nessie is either pretending or is actually that stupid. What is he pretending? Are you claiming 4.53 hectares cannot fit inside 5.66 hectares? What is the problem here? You'll need to just drill down into the issue instead of doing this back and forth. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 27, 2022 13:58:25 GMT
Nessie wrote: No, that's not what I'm claiming. The question remains, are you just pretending or are you actually that stupid?
mrolonzo wrote: I just did. Scroll up a few posts in this thread.
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