Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 25, 2022 8:39:49 GMT
There is plenty of evidence to prove TII existed and it had mass graves. You have no evidence that is contemporaneous and pertains directly to the site, to prove otherwise.
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Jun 25, 2022 8:51:51 GMT
There is plenty of evidence to prove TII existed and it had mass graves. You have no evidence that is contemporaneous and pertains directly to the site, to prove otherwise. Yes Wierniks map one.  and link which has north in the same direction as Wierniks map. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 25, 2022 11:38:14 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Camp two, the "totenlager" i.e. the death camp was supposedly about one third of the camp area. That could be from 4.3 to 5.7 hectares. Maps show that about one third of the totenlager was used for the gas chambers, pyres and sonnderkommando barracks. That's from your Death Camp maps. That doesn't leave enough room for 23 hundred meter long graves. You can increase or decrease the length of the graves but you still need over 4.5 hectares just for the graves and stockpiles. That doesn't take into account the areas necessary for carrying cadavers to the graves. It is a FACT that the death camp, camp II or whatever you want to call it, wasn't large enough to contain the murder facilities and the graves.
The official map used in the Stangl trial shows only five large graves. Being lawyers and judges, they had NO practical experience with the capabilities of earth moving equipment and simply went along with the idiotic notion that "excavators excavate so they dug the graves". Stangl got railroaded.
CS-C claimed to have located those graves using only GPR but showed NO GPR profiles for those alleged graves. Of course her suspect graves support the holyhoax so Nessie takes such claims as gospel truth with no questioning whatsoever. Krege did the same thing and said that there weren't any graves but he's an evil denier so his claims are an obvious lie. For Nessie, the veracity of a witness turns on whether or not they support the holyhoax.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 25, 2022 13:53:03 GMT
Nessie wrote: Camp two, the "totenlager" i.e. the death camp was supposedly about one third of the camp area. That could be from 4.3 to 5.7 hectares. Maps show that about one third of the totenlager was used for the gas chambers, pyres and sonnderkommando barracks. That's from your Death Camp maps. That doesn't leave enough room for 23 hundred meter long graves. You can increase or decrease the length of the graves but you still need over 4.5 hectares just for the graves and stockpiles. That doesn't take into account the areas necessary for carrying cadavers to the graves. It is a FACT that the death camp, camp II or whatever you want to call it, wasn't large enough to contain the murder facilities and the graves. The camp was 17 hectares, so 5.7 - 4.5 is 1.2 hectares, or about 3 US football fields, which is easily enough space for the gas chambers, a barracks and to get round the pits. There is enough space by your own calculations. Your idiotic notion is that the Nazis could not dig large pits, purely because you don't believe the Jews. Neither Krege nor C S-C published full GPR scans. But, since C S-C states what you do not want to hear, but Krege does, you believe him. I believe C S-C because her evidence is corroborated by other evidence mass graves were dug at TII. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 25, 2022 14:40:10 GMT
Nessie wrote: Horse frocky! Krege isn't claimed to be correct precisely because he didn't ever publish his "final report". That was a real disappointment for revisionists after the buildup and hype. You of course cite CS-C repeatedly regardless of her lack of evidence confirming what she claims to have discovered.
PS. Noodling around "electrical resistivity" and found this from researchgate: Why did CS-C totally ignore the most useful means of gathering information about graves, GPR, and display only "supporting information" from electrical resistivity?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 25, 2022 15:10:27 GMT
Turnagain asks me questions about C S-C that he knows I cannot answer. I don't know why she did not publish every single type of scan and the entire of each scan. Why does he not contact her for the answers?
He is also ignoring that under his own calculations, there is room in TII for the pits and stockpiles. He calculated 4.5 hectares needed for both, which is well within the 17 hectares for the camp as a whole and the 5.7 hectares dedicated to the main mass graves section. The Lazarette adds another 2 or so hectares and it also had mass graves in it.
There is plenty of space for mass graves, stockpiling the ex and the camp buildings.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 25, 2022 15:45:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie frantically tries to obfuscate. The 4.5+ hectares for the graves and stockpiles is ONLY for the one continuous grave and stockpile. That DOESN'T account for any of the space between the graves and for the walkways/wagon/light rail tracks for moving the cadavers from the gas chambers to the graves. That would require assumptions not the known facts. It is a FACT that it's claimed that the totenlager was about one third of the total camp area. That would make the murder/graves area between 4.3 and 5.7 hectares in size. The lazarette supposedly had one pit for cremating the cadavers as they accumulated so that isn't a grave for burying people. As was testified, the fire burned continuously fueled by the blood of the victims. As seen from the numerous maps Nessie provided through his link to "Death Camps" the murder facilities, the gas chambers, pyres and sonnderkommando barracks take up from a minimum of one fourth to one third of the totenlager area. It is a FACT that the totenlager wasn't large enough to contain the murder facilities, the graves and the stockpiles of ex.
PS. Why do you continue to cite CS-C as positive proof of mass graves even though she doesn't show her GPR profiles? Krege isn't cited by revisionists for precisely the same reason that he never published his final report/GPR profiles.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 25, 2022 15:55:06 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie frantically tries to obfuscate. The 4.5+ hectares for the graves and stockpiles is ONLY for the one continuous grave and stockpile. That DOESN'T account for any of the space between the graves and for the walkways/wagon/light rail tracks for moving the cadavers from the gas chambers to the graves. That would require assumptions not the known facts. You are ignoring that 5.7 minus 4.5 is 1.2, so there is space the equivalent of three US football pitches for space between the graves, the gas chambers and barracks. The Totenlager and Lazarette are about 7.7 hectares, which is ample space for mass graves and associated buildings, leaving 9.3 hectares for Nazi accommodation, the station and sorting barracks where people were stripped of their possessions. It is a FACT, based on your calculations, that there is space. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 25, 2022 16:08:03 GMT
Nessie wrote:
The lazarette had one (1) pit for burning cadavers. It's claimed that the graves were within the totenlager. From the maps you so thoughtfully provided, it can be seen that from one fourth to one third of the totenlager was used by the murder facilities. I made calculations for one (1) continuous grave and its stockpile of ex. That couldn't actually exist within the totenlager so how many graves were in the totenlager? What were their dimensions? What were the size of the entryways to the graves? That's unknown so can't be calculated. What we have shows that the totenlager wasn't large enough to accommodate both the murder facilities and the graves. That's a FACT, Nessie.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 25, 2022 16:12:31 GMT
Nessie wrote: The lazarette had one (1) pit for burning cadavers. It's claimed that the graves were within the totenlager. From the maps you so thoughtfully provided, it can be seen that from one fourth to one third of the totenlager was used by the murder facilities. I made calculations for one (1) continuous grave and its stockpile of ex. That couldn't actually exist within the totenlager so how many graves were in the totenlager? What were their dimensions? What were the size of the entryways to the graves? That's unknown so can't be calculated. What we have shows that the totenlager wasn't large enough to accommodate both the murder facilities and the graves. That's a FACT, Nessie. You worked out that 4.5 hectares was needed in total for mass graves and stockpile. Add 1.2 hectares to that for space between the graves, of which geophysics found 5, but witnesses report more than that, and the gas chambers and a barracks for the workers, then 2 hectares for the Lazarette that included at least one mass grave and there is, from your calculations, enough space. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 25, 2022 16:37:07 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie furiously continues to obfuscate. He ignores his own maps that show one fourth to one third of the totenlager being used for murder facilities. Using the minimum of one fourth for the murder facilities and the maximum of 5.7 (5.66) for the size of the totenlager and we get 4.275 hectares for the graves. 4.512 > 4.275 and that isn't considering the ancillary spaces necessary for the graves and the access to them. The totenlager wasn't large enough to contain the murder facilities and the graves and that's a FACT, Nessie.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 25, 2022 16:45:20 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie furiously continues to obfuscate. He ignores his own maps that show one fourth to one third of the totenlager being used for murder facilities. Using the minimum of one fourth for the murder facilities and the maximum of 5.7 (5.66) for the size of the totenlager and we get 4.275 hectares for the graves. 4.512 > 4.275 and that isn't considering the ancillary spaces necessary for the graves and the access to them. The totenlager wasn't large enough to contain the murder facilities and the graves and that's a FACT, Nessie. Your minimum figure of 4.275 hectares for the Totenlager is not big enough to for 4.512 hectares of graves and stockpile. The 5.66 hectares is big enough, so it is not a fact that the Totenlager could never have been big enough to house all the graves and stockpile.
It is a fact that the camp was 17 hectares, which is easily big enough for 4.5 hectares of graves and stockpile, with ample space for everything else.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 25, 2022 16:59:23 GMT
Nessie stamps his feet and shrieks, "Is too, is too" with no regard for his own maps or the fact that the 4.5+ hectares for graves were all that could be calculated. That's the minimum for the graves and stockpiles but Nessie knows that.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 25, 2022 18:12:06 GMT
Nessie stamps his feet and shrieks, "Is too, is too" with no regard for his own maps or the fact that the 4.5+ hectares for graves were all that could be calculated. That's the minimum for the graves and stockpiles but Nessie knows that. I am using your figures!
A 17 hectare camp will fit 4.5 hectares of graves and stockpile. It could fit more. I pointed out that the total for both Totenlager and Lazarette is 7 hectares, going by the various maps, which have those areas next to each other.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 26, 2022 0:00:47 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No, you're misusing my figures. The totenlager/death camp which contained the murder facilities and the graves was only one third of the 13-17 hectares claimed for the entire camp. The totenlager could have been from 4.3 (4.33) to 5.7 (5.66) hectares. The lazarette was supposedly for murdering those who lacked the physical ability to make it to the gas chamber and their bodies were allegedly burned in a single pit. There weren't multiple graves in the lazarette area.
One quarter to one third of the space in the totenlager was used by the murder facilities. That's shown by numerous maps in the "Death Camps" collection of maps including the map used in the Stangl trial. You refuse to acknowledge that the 45,300 square meters of graves and stockpile is for the area of the graves and stockpiles of ex only. That's for ONE continuous grave and stockpile. The actual number of graves and the stockpiles is unknown. The area required for the space between the graves and the means of access to the graves is UNKNOWN so can't be calculated.
Using the minimum of one fourth of the maximum area, 5.7 (5.66) hectares, of the totenlager results in an area that is smaller than the area required for one continuous stockpile and its stockpile of ex. 5.7 divided by 4 is 1.425. 5.7 minus 1.425 equals 4.275 hectares available for graves.
You can turn and squirm however you wish, Nessie, but the totenlager simply wasn't large enough to contain the murder facilities and the graves that would be required for the burial of ~725,000 cadavers.
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