Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 2, 2022 10:05:32 GMT
Let's see the order, Nessie, or give it a rest. You are apparently claiming that Hitler gave some kind of secret verbal order to move T-4 personnel to killing centers and continue murdering Jews without even letting Goering know. Was Hitler's secret order given telepathically?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 2, 2022 10:55:13 GMT
Let's see the order, Nessie, or give it a rest. You are apparently claiming that Hitler gave some kind of secret verbal order to move T-4 personnel to killing centers and continue murdering Jews without even letting Goering know. Was Hitler's secret order given telepathically?
I have shown you evidence, from T4, the EG mass shootings and AR, that Berlin was aware of the mass killings. Only one specific written order, for T4 survives. Your suggestion that local commanders were killing Jews en-mass and reporting back to Berlin, without Berlin's permission to kill, is an obvious nonsense.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 2, 2022 11:43:03 GMT
Uh-huh, Nessie has "evidence" but can't come up with the order to commence the holyhoax that's implied by his "evidence". As Hilberg was forced to admit in the Zundle trial, there isn't any such order.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 2, 2022 12:04:29 GMT
Uh-huh, Nessie has "evidence" but can't come up with the order to commence the holyhoax that's implied by his "evidence". As Hilberg was forced to admit in the Zundle trial, there isn't any such order. I have produced the order for T4. I have produced documents that report deaths of Jews back to Berlin. I have shown you the links between T4 and AR and the EG. You dodge that is evidence of orders from Berlin that allowed the mass killing of Jews. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 2, 2022 12:14:29 GMT
Uh-huh, Nessie has "evidence" but can't come up with the order to commence the holyhoax that's implied by his "evidence". As Hilberg was forced to admit in the Zundle trial, there isn't any such order. And that does rather sum up how the H-hoax works: it claims to have abundant โhardโ evidence, but when asked to produce it switches to โanti-semiteโ attack mode. And if we scrutinise the โevidenceโ for ourselves, it is revealed to be a mirage constructed out of a self-referential, circular-logic claim of bogus โconvergenceโ. ๐คช What has actually happened is that Turnagain has asked for evidence, which I have provided, but because it does not suit him, he has gone into denier mode and is thinking up excuses to dismiss the evidence that Berlin was fully aware of the mass killings, which means Berlin was fin with those killings, which means that like T4, Hitler had ordered it. We have the specific document for T4, we just do not have a Hitler signed document for the EG or AR mass murders. That may be because no document was produced and instead it was word of mouth only, because Hitler wanted to avoid another scandal, as had happened with T4.
I have made no anti-Semitic claims, you just made that up. The convergence of evidence is academically accepted;
"Converging evidence refers to the concept that independent scientific findings acquired with different methodological techniques can come together, or converge, to create strong and well-supported conclusions"
"The convergence of evidence is a critical tool in assessing what explanation is better to explain the facts of a case. It is the convergence of evidence rather than the mere existence of evidence that establishes the truth of a proposition...We tend to believe that, if we have facts and evidence on our side, we are correct in our assumptions. However, there are facts and evidence for all sorts of positions and, often, we have conflicting evidence about established truth. Therefore the convergence of evidence is important in establishing the truth in contentious matters. Understanding how evidence converges is a key part of establishing who, in a disagreement, bears the burden of proof, and why the existence of facts and evidence is not sufficient to establish the truth or disprove a dominant theory."
I use the term corroboration, whereby independent sources of evidence support the one conclusion. To hoax all the evidence I use would be a physical impossibility.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 2, 2022 22:32:42 GMT
I asked Nessie for Hitler's (or any other high ranking National Socialist's) order to commence the murder of Jews. He can't produce one for the very good reason that it doesn't exist. Most of the T-4 personnel had training in a medical field. That would be useful in a transit camp but Nessie declares all T-4 personnel to be bloodthirsty psychopaths who would enjoy murdering millions of Jews. Nessie wrote: For a rebuttal of Shermer's and Grobman's screed by Carlo Mattogno, go here: www.renegadetribune.com/denying-history-denying-evidence-the-phony-convergence-of-evidence-to-prove-the-holocaust-a-review/As usual, Mattogno picks Shermer and Grobman apart like an overcooked chicken. |
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Jun 2, 2022 23:05:59 GMT
I use the term corroboration, whereby independent sources of evidence support the one conclusion. To hoax all the evidence I use would be a physical impossibility. The correct phrase when it comes to the individuals is "collusion to conspire". While this is evident when it comes to trained terrorists who called themselves "home army" [ people like Lieutenant Franciszek Zฤ
becki (Treblinka Station Master)] other just hop on the band wagon for the ride. Others cannot accept that Auntie Rebecca died of congenital diseases which her species are prone, or that uncle Ishmael committed suicide; it is easier to blame the "evul narzeeeees" for their demise. This psychological construct along with the Soviet State implementing their own form of "investigation" like Katyn creates the illusion of evidence, suggestions of great impropriety but nothing concrete to back it up; just a pile of rubble they call gaskammer and much innuendo. The Soviet staff of 7 million along with their Polish communist counterparts (vassals of Moscow) did much to create the aspersions. The Russian hatred for National Socialists continue to this day. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 3, 2022 8:51:59 GMT
I asked Nessie for Hitler's (or any other high ranking National Socialist's) order to commence the murder of Jews. He can't produce one for the very good reason that it doesn't exist. Most of the T-4 personnel had training in a medical field. That would be useful in a transit camp but Nessie declares all T-4 personnel to be bloodthirsty psychopaths who would enjoy murdering millions of Jews. The T4 personnel were used to murdering people in gas chambers, so they were obvious choices for AR and murdering people in gas chambers. I have shown you reports of mass killings being sent back to Berlin. Here is another; holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2019/11/report-to-hitler-jews-executed-363211.html"On 29 December 1942, the Reichsfรผhrer-SS Heinrich Himmler reported to Adolf Hitler that "Jews executed: 363,211" between August to November 1942 in the area of the Higher SS and Police Leader (HSSPF) Russia-South, Ukraine, and North-East." Only you would think that would happen, without Hitler's approval. Both AR and the EG were sending back reports to Berlin and you seriously think they were acting against orders!!!! You are just copy and pasting something you found on the internet, that you do not understand. Explain how Mattogno refutes the convergence of evidence. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 3, 2022 10:03:56 GMT
(sigh)Holyhoax Controversies again. That is a report on fighting bandits. There was a whole discussion on the validity of the numbers in the report. Be that as it may, there is no report of "Jews gassed". Just that Jews had been executed as "bandits". IOW, Jews as partisan fighters. At the time execution of partisans was a perfectly legal and acceptable way of dealing with partisans. If you have a document showing the number of Jews killed with engine exhaust then let's see it.
Nessie wrote:
Of course I found it on the internet. Just as you found "Holyhoax Controversies" on the internet. On the older version of RODOH there was an entire discussion on Shermer's converging (leaping together) evidence. Can't remember the guys name that also took Shermers "converging evidence" apart but I can perhaps find it. IIRC, I referred to Shermers "leaping evidence" as "leap-frog evidence".
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