Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 21, 2022 9:36:32 GMT
Deniers like to pretend that there is not enough evidence to prove mass gassings, graves and cremations. That is a deception on their part and is designed to deflect from their total lack of evidence to back up their claims. Here I will post examples of deniers claiming, or suggestions of no evidence. I have started this thread after some of my replies to claims of no evidence were removed from threads, in an obvious attempt to preserve the deceit of their being no evidence. Been-there said; "LOL! Nessie shrieks, "I do have evidence, I do" all while having jack-squat for evidence of 900,000 people (or however many) got murdered at Treblinka. No graves, no cremains, no nada but here he is claiming, "I have evidence"." rodoh.info/post/3043He goes on to say; "Plus Nessie is refuted by one of the holocaust high-priests, Ephraim Kaye, who admits this at 4:24 in the following youtube video:" He quotes the video; "...walk around the camp [Birkenau] and geographically itโs a tremendous area... and look for the physical evidence of the destruction of 1.2 to 1.4 million people. Well itโs distressing and depressing because you REALLY DONโT FIND IT!!!โ And at 5:42, when talking about Treblinka he admits the lack of physical evidence there also, saying this: โitโs unbelievable! There is nothing thereโ!" Been-there has taken Kayes comments out of context, since he explains why there is nothing to see. The Nazis made huge efforts to cover up and hide the physical evidence and then the AR camp sites were memorialised. That is why visitors to TII or Birkenau cannot see obvious gas chambers or evidence of the mass graves. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 21, 2022 9:42:22 GMT
Turnagain constantly makes claims of a lack of evidence, here he uses one his favourite claims; rodoh.info/post/3047"Nessie then takes exception to me calling the small excavations that CS-C claims to have found "rabbit holes"." Fact is that many large pits were found, the largest being a pit that is 26m long, 17m wide and at least 4m deep, which is 1,768m3, which is nearly 3/4 the size of an Olympic sized pool. That is not a rabbit hole. That alone would make a huge mass grave. What Turnagain likes to dodge discussing is the huge area of TII that was covered by a memorial in the 1960s, to stop grave robbing. That prevents much of the site being surveyed and some of the pits extend under the memorial, so will be even bigger than the GPR measurements show. |
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Post by Tribunus Laticlavius on Jan 21, 2022 9:42:47 GMT
Where is the evidence of this action to hide evidence. What documents are there that the Nazis would hide the physical evidence of mass murder? We know you have said these places were razed, but of course Sobibor was not razed, the commandants house still standing proud today.
I suggest the following reasoning goes like this:
The nazis covered up there crimes by hiding the physical evidence. I know there were such crimes because the evidence is hidden.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 21, 2022 9:44:46 GMT
Turnagain, again, with another favourite of his; rodoh.info/post/3033He suggests no mass graves have been found when he claims " Why did she (Caroline Sturdy-Colls about TII) say that she was going to return to Treblinka and locate the graves?" When will Turnagain quote her saying that? He has refused to on multiple occasions. |
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Post by Tribunus Laticlavius on Jan 21, 2022 9:45:36 GMT
Turnagain, again, with another favourite of his; rodoh.info/post/3033He suggests no mass graves have been found when he claims " Why did she (Caroline Sturdy-Colls about TII) say that she was going to return to Treblinka and locate the graves?" When will Turnagain quote her saying that? He has refused to on multiple occasions. Well all these years later and no return. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 21, 2022 9:52:59 GMT
Where is the evidence of this action to hide evidence. What documents are there that the Nazis would hide the physical evidence of mass murder? We know you have said these places were razed, but of course Sobibor was not razed, the commandants house still standing proud today. I suggest the following reasoning goes like this: The nazis covered up there crimes by hiding the physical evidence. I know there were such crimes because the evidence is hidden. Courts are entitled to infer guilty conduct from the destruction of evidence. It is obviously suspicious when someone burns and/or buries evidence of what they had been doing. |
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Post by Tribunus Laticlavius on Jan 21, 2022 18:28:11 GMT
Courts are entitled to infer guilty conduct from the destruction of evidence. It is obviously suspicious when someone burns and/or buries evidence of what they had been doing. Only where you are from it seems. There are many instances worldwide where government property is converted back to or reverted to agriculture. They did not do well at Sobibor where the Commandants house still stands; this would have been the first to go. It is not indicative of a crime to revert government property to other purposes. Shame there is no physical evidence of magnitude to support your hypothesis. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 21, 2022 19:17:23 GMT
Courts are entitled to infer guilty conduct from the destruction of evidence. It is obviously suspicious when someone burns and/or buries evidence of what they had been doing. Only where you are from it seems. There are many instances worldwide where government property is converted back to or reverted to agriculture. They did not do well at Sobibor where the Commandants house still stands; this would have been the first to go. It is not indicative of a crime to revert government property to other purposes. Shame there is no physical evidence of magnitude to support your hypothesis. The only instances of the Nazis reverting a camp site back to agriculture was at Sobibor, Belzec and TII. Each had buildings left to house guards. That is indicative of a cover up, which in itself is indicative of a criminal act having occurred at those places. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 21, 2022 20:00:05 GMT
Nessie wrote:
From CODOH:
Note the weasel words, "indicative of a number of PROBABLE graves...". IOW, CS-C doesn't claim to have found the graves. She then "hopes to return to the site later on..." but that didn't happen. No further fieldwork was undertaken at Treblinka by CS-C.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 21, 2022 20:17:20 GMT
Nessie wrote: From CODOH: Note the weasel words, "indicative of a number of PROBABLE graves...". IOW, CS-C doesn't claim to have found the graves. She then "hopes to return to the site later on..." but that didn't happen. No further fieldwork was undertaken at Treblinka by CS-C. You admit you misrepresented her and she did not say she was returning to "locate the graves".
Probable means "likely to happen or be the case", "supported by evidence strong enough to establish presumption but not proof a probable hypothesis". Archaeology in its own cannot prove what is there, it can only provide evidence. The work done was non-intrusive, so she has proved ground disturbances, but not what is inside those disturbances. But, since they are where witnesses say mass graves were located, in all probability, she has found parts of some of those mass graves.
You are again trying to play down the amount of evidence for mass graves, as you dodge that you have no evidence at all, to support your claim that there is insufficient ground disturbances for there to have been mass burials at TII.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 21, 2022 20:53:17 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No, I don't admit that I misrepresented what she said. CS-C admitted that she hadn't found the graves and that she would be returning to Treblinka. If not to find the precise location of the graves and produce further evidence that Treblinka was a death camp, then what? No suppositions from holyhoax la-la land just give alternate reasons for CS-C to return to Treblinka.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 22, 2022 9:24:47 GMT
Nessie wrote: No, I don't admit that I misrepresented what she said. CS-C admitted that she hadn't found the graves and that she would be returning to Treblinka. If not to find the precise location of the graves and produce further evidence that Treblinka was a death camp, then what? No suppositions from holyhoax la-la land just give alternate reasons for CS-C to return to Treblinka. She did not say she had not found the graves. She said she had, with a high probability, located some of the graves. She wants to return to do more investigations, possibly with geophysics that will go deeper, or be able to cope with the memorial. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 22, 2022 9:36:20 GMT
Show me where CS-C states unequivocally that she found the graves at Treblinka. Not that she just found some holes/pits but that she had discovered the location of the graves.
BTW, where's the link to the source that gives the dimensions of all of the holes?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 22, 2022 9:50:03 GMT
Show me where CS-C states unequivocally that she found the graves at Treblinka. Not that she just found some holes/pits but that she had discovered the location of the graves. BTW, where's the link to the source that gives the dimensions of all of the holes? It is in her thesis that I have linked to on lots of occasions. She describes how she found large areas of disturbed ground using various geophysical methods and the finds are listed in an appendix, givening the location and dimensions of each find. She explains that non intrusive geophysics means what is inside the disturbed ground cannot be ascertained, but, from the evidential history of the camp, there is a high probability that each area of disturbed ground can be attributed to being from buried building remains, rubbish pits and graves.
Your attempts to gaslight me are pathetic. You know I have shown you the evidence and have explained it to you on numerous previous occasions.
Again, here
Pages 470 onwards lists all the finds and their dimensions.
Stop pretending you have not been shown that before.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 22, 2022 11:11:23 GMT
Nessie wrote:
So, Nessie is back to "disturbed ground" and no, CS-C doesn't give dimensions for all of her so-called "disturbed ground". Neither does she present any GPR scans that she claims to have used to locate the "disturbed ground". The question was, did CS-C unequivocally state that she had found the mass graves at Treblinka? Of course she doesn't but Nessie plows ahead with his "disturbed ground". Whatever that means besides just obfuscating bullshit.
It's curious how CS-C's work on Treblinka takes up only 230 pages of her 680+ page opus while her "investigation" of Alderney takes up the rest. Much of what CS-C records for Treblinka is commentary about the socio/political situation in Poland, halacha law and other such filler information. She claims to have used GPR for locating the pits/depressions/holes but presents only one scan from that device. Why is that, Nessie? You would think that she would use all of the details to support her claims of "probable graves" etc. She doesn't. She acts more the charlatan trying to hide what she DIDN'T find rather than a honest investigator.
In any event, after the excavations by Lukaszkiewcz and the efforts of the numerous grave robbers, why shouldn't CS-C find evidence of such excavations? The fact remains that CS-C did NOT claim to have found the mass graves at Treblinka. You can turn and squirm, weasel dodge to your heart's content, Nessie, but that IS a fact.
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