CO Poisoning

You have not answered those questions. You may think you have, but you have shown no medical source that states specifically that prior to death X percentage of people, or made a clear statement such as "majority of people" will show obvious cherry red skin in acute CO poisoning. Illogical claims have been made about the NHS not dealing with cases where people will die, which is utter drivel. The NHS will try and treat everyone, even those they think will die. In any case, cherry red skin as a symptom is important for rescuers to know about.

I ran raining cats and dogs through google and another online translator and they came back as raining cats and dogs and falling cats and dogs.

You do not have any medical evidence that lists cherry red as an obvious symptoms of fatal, acute gassings, and you cannot explain why that is, when it would be essential safety advice for the emergency services, so that they would also know they were at risk of death.

You are still dodging my point about emergency services safety and how cherry red skin would be a warning to paramedics and others attending the scene of a poisoning that they too are at risk.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/man-who-died-at-house-where-paramedics-suffered-co-poisoning-named-34675267.html

"A man who died at a house in County Down where paramedics suffered from carbon monoxide poisoning has been named locally...The Northern Ireland Ambulance Service (NIAS) said crews became unwell while attending the scene."

If cherry red skin was as obvious and common as you say in fatal gassings, there would be numerous warnings to look for it. Instead...

www.jems.com/patient-care/early-recognition-in-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-case-leads-to-appropriate-patient-care/

"High level CO poisoning results in progressively more severe symptoms, including mental confusion, vomiting, loss of coordination, loss of consciousness and ultimately death.1 The classic “cherry red” skin color is typically seen post-mortem and is not reliable in making a diagnosis of carbon monoxide exposure."

www.hmpgloballearningnetwork.com/site/emsworld/article/10323668/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-incidence-diagnosis-treatment

"Cherry-red skin color, a very late indicator of significantly elevated carboxyhemoglobin levels, is associated with severe CO poisoning...Cherry-red skin color is not a reliable sign of CO poisoning. Identifying patients with CO poisoning can be difficult, as symptoms are often vague.
Skin: Classic cherry red skin is rare (i.e., “When you're cherry red, you're dead”); pallor is present more often."

That directly contradicts your claims and supports mine. Before death it is rare and hard to spot, even in fatal cases and it is only an obvious sign after death. Those medical sources are for emergency responders and if cherry red was common and obvious in gassings that are going to be fatal and will harm attending paramedics, those sources would shout that symptom as a priority to look for.

Nessie wrote:

Indeed, cherry red skin is an indicator that you're either dead or near death and ALL victims at Treblinka allegedly received a lethal dose of CO at Treblinka. Significantly elevated carboxyhemoglobin results in cherry red skin. Nessie seems to be unable to comprehend that even when it comes from his own source.

Nessie goes for the sly lie when he states, "...it is only an obvious sign after death". He leaves out that cherry-red skin color is "a very late indicator...". Not all people who display the cherry-red skin discoloration die. Most do but not all. Neither does he quote anyone who claims that the cherry-red skin color of high levels of caboxyhemoglobin appears hours after death with the appearance of livor mortis.

Nessie's claim that the cadavers at Treblinka displayed livor mortis that began to appear only hours after death not the characteristic red/pink discoloration from high levels of carboxyhemoglobin is pure horse frocky.

I have just produced two emergency medicine sources that specifically say cherry red is not common and distinctive.



You have quote mined, as I show below.



I check multiple sources, to ensure any claim is corroborated. I do not cherry pick one source, as you do.



You are arguing people commonly and obviously go cherry red before death, so when the gas chamber doors are opened, it would be obvious.



emttrainingbase.com/carbon-monoxide-poisoning/

You think this supports your claim cherry red is common and obvious;

"I don’t know about you, but my EMT lecture on CO poisoning taught that the classic sign to look out for is cherry red skin. Experience has shown me that this is not true and research shows cherry red is a very late sign of CO poisoning, often indicating the patient is near death."

But he does not say how common and obvious that near death symptom is. He goes on to say;

"Many of us were taught that “cherry red skin” is a classic sign of carbon monoxide poisoning. However, anyone exposed to these patients knows that cherry red skin rarely occurs, and when it does it will usually occur very. Often it’s a late sign that happens when the patient is nearing death."

That is ambiguous and there is a grammar issue. He states "it will usually occur very...." what? he has already told us it is rare. It is in his list of symptoms that he confirms it is not obvious, where he states;

"The signs and symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning are variable and non-specific."

That applies to all symptoms, so we know cherry red is a late sign that is not common and obvious. In his list of symptoms for severe CO, he includes death and unconsciousness, but not cherry red skin. That is corroborated by the emergency medical sources I have linked to. Cherry red skin is not a reliable indicator of fatal levels of CO, hence emergency crews are not being warned about it.

I already did, read the past few pages.

That is your interpretation of the medical evidence. I say it is a rare symptom, even in fatal poisonings. A reason for that is the lack of warnings for paramedics and other emergency responders and, indeed, the public.



If paramedics turn up at a report of people unconscious inside a building, which is caused by a fatal leak of CO, surely they should be informed of what you claim to be a common and obvious symptom. Yet you cannot produce any medical source warning paramedics to check the skin. The same applies to other emergency responders and even the public. I knew someone at work, who failed to appear for a family dinner, so her brother went to check on her and he found her unconscious, which was due to CO from a leaking gas fire. He was in danger going into her flat and at first he had no idea what was wrong. If people close to death are obviously cherry red, why is that not in EVERY source about CO?

Instead, medical sources all refer to vague symptoms, that mimic other diseases and most do not list cherry red skin, even for cases where death is in minutes. The skin being bright cherry red is VERY distinctive and could save lives if recognised, plus it stops rescuers putting their lives at risk.

It is a rare symptom, it is not a rare symptom because most people survive CO poisoning. It is obvious at postmortems, because the blood pooling makes its colour more obvious against the pale skin that now has no blood in it.