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Post by been_there on May 15, 2022 9:59:39 GMT
Of course I donโt โwithdrawโ anything. I stand by EVERYTHING I wrote. That sentence you quoted does not equate with your literally stupid miscomprehension/misrepresentation of it. You said "many" and "bright pink"... How many is many? How bright a pink are you talking about?
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 13:40:29 GMT
Some questions for you Turnagain; 1 - does the NHS or CDC list a symptom of acute, severe CO poisoning as cherry red skin? 2 - do numerous sites listed here state it is common and obvious postmortem? 3 - are the photos shown of lividity from bodies that have been dead for hours, so the lividity can form? I have no idea what the NHS or the CDC says about CO poisoning. I'm sure that such literature is voluminous. b-t DID post from a website a chart showing the symptoms of CO poisoning and the concomitant red/pink discoloration up to death. Neither the NHS or CDC list cherry red as symptom, which is why you have dodged that question. Been-there posted a chart which specifically references time and the longer the exposure the more the colour. How about you link to one of those numerous sites? How many times do I have to explain the same simple process? The cherry red comes from the blood, which whilst the person is alive and breathing, that blood is turning more and more cherry red. BUT, in severe cases, where the person only breaths for a few minutes before they die, that change of colour has not had time to become obvious in the skin. It only becomes obvious in the skin after death, when all the blood from the body, instead of circulating around the body, is now pooled in the lowest part of the body, due to gravity. It is then it becomes obvious. |
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 13:50:06 GMT
Nessie wrote: As I said, in holyhoax la-la land Nessie gets to make up his own definitions. Dictionaries and other authorities need not apply. Obviously a chronic condition can last for as little as a few hours if that's what Nessie decides...in holyhoax la-la land. Jeezus H, you've been shown photos of a man with red/pink discoloration who survived CO poisoning and b-t has posted an entire chart showing the correlation between the symptoms of CO poisoning and the degree of discoloration before death. Are you claiming that both Scott and b-t made up phony websites and photos just to post here on RODOH? You have to apply acute and chronic exposure as appropriate to the condition. You found one very general definition.
โAcute CO poisoningโ is used to indicate those cases of poisoning that have come to the attention of medical practitioners immediately after exposure. This usually occurs after a single, large exposure to the gas, and may involve one or more people."
โChronic CO poisoningโ is used to indicate those cases when patients are exposed on more than one occasion to the gasโusually at comparatively low concentrations. These patients will develop symptoms related to exposure to the toxin, if concentrations and duration of exposure are great enough."
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 13:56:10 GMT
You said "many" and "bright pink"... How many is many? How bright a pink are you talking about?
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๐คฃ๐ Ha ha ha! ๐ ๐คชI have caught you making up claims and now you refuse to answer simple questions. Many means "a large number of", so my description of common is the same. Bright pink is a distinctive, bright colour, so my description of obvious is the same.
There is no medical source that lists cherry red as a symptom for acute, severe CO poisoning that will kill if the person is not rescued and treated. That means it is not a symptom to look out for, as it is rarely present, so rare that sources do not mention it.
That means people in gas chambers who are exposed to fatal levels where they die in minutes, are not turning obviously cherry red. So, when the gas chambers are opened, those clearing the bodies are not seeing lots of obviously cherry red bodies.
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Post by Turnagain on May 15, 2022 15:20:05 GMT
Nessie can't seem to understand the simple question of "Why does carbon monoxide make you turn red?"
What can't you understand about the statement of, "...it is nearly always fatal? People have survived such levels of COHb but survival is rare. IOW, if your level of COHb is high enough to cause you to turn red/pink you're most likely a goner. The red/pink discoloration from high levels of COHb isn't dependent on time and gravity. It's NOT livor mortis. The red/pink discoloration from CO poisoning is from high levels of COHb and appears BEFORE death which is the usual outcome for such levels of COHb. Not "always" but "usually".
At Treblinka, ALL alleged cases of CO poisoning were fatal. Red or pink cadavers would have been the rule not the exception as in cases of accidental non-fatal CO poisoning. Of course that's the reason why Nessie refuses to acknowledge that reality since none of his so-called eyewitnesses claimed that the cadavers at Treblinka were red/pink in color. They obviously didn't see any cadavers that had been murdered with CO. Neither can he give a rational explanation for why the victims at Treblinka supposedly turned yellow or had black heads and blue torsos. So much for Nessie's claim that his witnesses were not credible but were truthful. His witnesses are lying like rugs.
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 16:19:15 GMT
Nessie can't seem to understand the simple question of "Why does carbon monoxide make you turn red?" I have answered that question and it is as you understand it, it is due to the COHb in the blood causing the blood to become cherry red. The issue is, when does that become commonly and obviously visible? You allege it should become commonly and obviously visible just prior to death, but you cannot show any medical source to back your claim up. If what you claim was correct, medical sources would be listing it as a symptom to look for in the most severe, acute cases. Instead, when there are minutes to death, medical sources list symptoms such as unconsciousness. www.nhs.uk/conditions/carbon-monoxide-poisoning/ "loss of consciousness โ in cases where there are very high levels of carbon monoxide, death may occur within minutes" www.cdc.gov/co/faqs.htm"If you breathe in a lot of CO it can make you pass out or kill you." www.cfinotebook.net/graphics/aeromedical-and-human-factors/carbon-monoxide-poisoning/carbon-monoxide-symptoms.webp"Unconsciousness, eventual death if victim is not removed from source of CO" None mention cherry red as an obvious symptom when people are going to die. That means it is not an obvious symptom. |
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 16:52:18 GMT
This source references symptoms for various forms of exposure to CO; cks.nice.org.uk/topics/carbon-monoxide-poisoning/They are not relevant, since the exposure in the gas chambers was brief, but the levels were fatal. Those symptoms are not relevant, since again, exposure in the gas chambers was high and over a short time. That is the same list of symptoms other medical sites have for levels of CO that will be fatal, in minutes. So, it is relevant. But just like the other medical sites, like the NHS and CDC, it does not list obvious cherry red skin. The logical and obvious conclusion is that even in fatal cases, people do not exhibit obvious cherry red skin prior to death. Instead, it has to appear AFTER death. |
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Post by been_there on May 15, 2022 16:56:46 GMT
Nessie can't seem to understand the simple question of "Why does carbon monoxide make you turn red?" I have answered that question and it is as you understand it, it is due to the COHb in the blood causing the blood to become cherry red. The issue is, when does that become commonly and obviously visible? You allege it should become commonly and obviously visible just prior to death... None mention cherry red as an obvious symptom when people are going to die. That means it is not an obvious symptom. Mad! Seriously! This stubborn miscomprehension of such a simple distinction between fatal and non-fatal cases of CO poisoning fits the literal definition of insanity. I.e. an inability to distinguish what is real from what is phantasy. |
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 17:18:04 GMT
I have answered that question and it is as you understand it, it is due to the COHb in the blood causing the blood to become cherry red. The issue is, when does that become commonly and obviously visible? You allege it should become commonly and obviously visible just prior to death... None mention cherry red as an obvious symptom when people are going to die. That means it is not an obvious symptom. Mad! Seriously! This stubborn miscomprehension of such a simple distinction between fatal and non-fatal cases of CO poisoning fits the literal definition of insanity. I.e. an inability to distinguish what is real from what is phantasy. I have clearly distinguished between fatal and non-fatal, by finding lists of symptoms for exposure that would have been fatal, if the person is not rescued and treated. A reminder of what the NHS states
"loss of consciousness โ in cases where there are very high levels of carbon monoxide, death may occur within minutes"
If people were turning obvious cherry red when exposed to levels that will kill within minutes, why does the NHS not list that as a symptom? Why not the CDC? Why not NICE? Emergency services, responding to an unconscious person, would surely need to know that if that person is showing bright red skin, they are also at risk of dying within minutes by also breathing in CO.
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Post by Turnagain on May 15, 2022 17:37:34 GMT
been-there wrote: Indeed! You have posted the symptoms of CO poisoning and the concomitant levels of red/pink discoloration up to and including death. Scott posted a photo of a man with red/pink discoloration who survived. I've posted two articles that state that the red/pink discoloration results from high levels of COHb. Nessie blithely insists that the red/pink discoloration is a result of livor mortis and doesn't appear until at least two hours after death. Nessie's fanatical belief in the holyhoax has apparently driven him to irrationality; a denial of reality. In medical jargon, he's gone nutzoid.
edit. Red/pink discoloration isn't a reliable indicator of accidental CO poisoning so the NHS isn't mentioning red/pink discoloration as a symptom. Most people who display red/pink discoloration are dead. Lots of other references do reference the red/pink discoloration as a function of very high levels of COHb.
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 18:40:32 GMT
been-there wrote: Indeed! You have posted the symptoms of CO poisoning and the concomitant levels of red/pink discoloration up to and including death. He posted one source, which makes it clear that discolouration appears with TIME. Those in the gas chambers were dead in minutes. That was because he was exposed to non-fatal levels for a long period of TIME. WRONG. When cherry red blood is still being pumped around the body, it is not obvious in the skin that it has gone a shade cherry red. It needs to have pooled in the skin to become obvious. That you resort to ad hominem, is evidence your argument has failed. That supports my claim!!!! When alive and exposed to fatal levels of CO, a person will fall unconscious and then they will die due to the lack of oxygen in the CO filled air. The blood stops pumping round the body and starts to pool, which then reveals it has gone cherry red as it can now all be clearly seen in the skin. |
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Post by ๐๐๐จ๐ญ๐ญ on May 16, 2022 3:37:50 GMT
I've posted two articles that state that the red/pink discoloration results from high levels of COHb. Nessie blithely insists that the red/pink discoloration is a result of livor mortis and doesn't appear until at least two hours after death. WRONG. When cherry red blood is still being pumped around the body, it is not obvious in the skin that it has gone a shade cherry red. It needs to have pooled in the skin to become obvious. I disagree. The exceptionally bright red coloring in the blood is caused by the hemoglobin having absorbed high levels of carbon monoxide instead of oxygen. This is particularly dangerous because carbon monoxide is 240 times more likely to bind to blood hemoglobin than oxygen is. This means that even if you are breathing almost pure oxygen, only a small fraction of a percent of CO content will prove fatal after a short period of time. The higher the COHb the pinker the flesh because of the color of the blood. It is as simple as that. In fact, CO gas is sometimes used to treat red meat on a grocer's shelves because it will make it look pinker and therefor look more appealing, like fresh meat, even if it isn't actually any fresher than before. The blood, not the flesh, is what changes color. It is true that pink corpses will show this color contrast most starkly where you pinch the flesh to squeeze out the blood and you will see white blanching โ see photo below โ to contrast with the pink flesh that is actually infused with bright red blood. This is most clear when the CO patient has recently died and therefore has no blood pressure. One of the ischemia tests that emergency room personnel do to check your circulation is to pinch your flesh to make it blanch, and then watch to see how long it takes for the blood flowing back to make the flesh return to its normal pinkish color. This contrast between blanching and cherry-red can also be seen when the blood has a chance to pool with the force of gravity after death and soon hardens in place โ meaning that after a short period of time with no heartbeat, the blood stays put even if the corpse is moved later โ which is what is meant by the term livor mortis, literally "color of death." However, actual livor mortis, which takes a period of time to develop as the blood hardens in place, is irrelevant to our discussion about CO gassings. If corpses were gassed with either carbon monoxide or hydrogen cyanide, the superlative cherry-pink corpse coloring would be obvious, whether death occurred only minutes or hours before. Curious that no eye-witnesses to Nazi gassings ever described any cherry-red corpses. None.  |
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Post by Turnagain on May 16, 2022 4:12:24 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No, people DON'T die from the lack of oxygen in the air. People die from CO binding with hemoglobin to form carboxyhemoglobin which prevents the blood from delivering oxygen to the body. A high concentration of CO, lethal within one hour of exposure is only 6,500 ppm. There's plenty of oxygen in the air. The formation of COHb inhibits the delivery of that oxygen to the body.
Show proof of your theory. Be specific and quote source(s) that declare that the red/pink discoloration resulting from high levels of COHb, 65%+, doesn't appear until the onset of livor mortis. Show that there is NO red/pink discoloration while blood is in circulation. Your deductive reasoning that since the CDC doesn't mention red/pink discoloration from the formation of COHb then the discoloration must come from livor mortis isn't sufficient.
The CDC is addressing the 99% of the cases of CO poisoning that are non-lethal. Data for less than lethal CO poisoning are irrelevant.
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Post by Turnagain on May 16, 2022 6:27:15 GMT
Scott wrote:
That is indeed the rub. I don't know if Nessie actually believes his maundering about CO and livor mortis but I doubt it. What he's actually arguing against is the fact that NO so-called witness to Jews being gassed with either CO or cyanide described the correct discoloration of cadavers who had been murdered with those methods. Nobody correctly described the appearance of the cadavers who were supposedly gassed and that is Nessie's main problem.
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Post by been_there on May 16, 2022 7:34:37 GMT
The following demonstrates the denial mindset that is being demonstrated here, by this perverse refusal to accept correction on basic biology, arithmetic, or whatever other facts refutes the holocaust hoax of mass-gassings: The above demonstrates that living victims of CO poisoning do turn increasingly pink, the higher the CO content in their blood. It also is proof that displays of bright red colouring, CAN and does occur in the living victim of CO poisoning! โ...the level of carbon monoxide in the blood required to get the skin to that colour is so high that it is nearly always fatalโ. That sentence IS PROOF that it is not ALWAYS fatal! Consequently, if victims can turn bright pink while still living, it is safe to assume the likelihood of many victims being bright pink immediately after asphyxiating from engine exhaust at alleged holocaust extermination camps! Yet no holocaust lie-witness noticed any!Proof they lied and the mass-gassing allegation is an anti-German, atrocity-propaganda psy-op! Here is further evidence that cherry-red colouring occurs BEFORE lividity: โ... my EMT lecture on CO poisoning taught that
the classic sign to look out for is cherry red skin.
Experience has shown me that this is not true and
research shows cherry red is a very late sign of CO poisoning, often indicating the patient is near deathโ. So, points being denied by our resident H-believer: โข distinctive cherry red skin is prevalent in those close to death after being poisoned by engine exhaust. โข such colouring is extremely noticeable, but it is often too late to save someone who displays it. โข this explains why health agencies are giving LESS emphasis or none to this sign โclassic signโ as it is then TOO LATE to save life. CONCLUSION: it naturally follows that the MAJORITY of naked, white Europeans supposedly gassed in chambers with Carbon monoxide would display cherry-red skin shortly before and immediately after death. That discolourisation would only increase with time (i.e. with onset of lividity). The holocaust narrative is refuted by this simple biological fact. Just as Fritz Berg CORRECTLY pointed out. The eye-witnesses who claimed to have seen mass-gassings and been part of the process but who described the majority of victims displaying other colours in death are proven to be lying! That no โeye-witnessesโ described bright pink or cherry-red corpses in the above claimed extermination process is therefore evidence their testimony is BOGUS! They lied. But no evidence will ever satisfy someone who has a literally insane attachment to an emotionally-held belief-system, that they need to defend. |
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