Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 24, 2022 9:39:03 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Really? Nobody has looked for train records from Treblinka? Gee, who knew?
Are you claiming that Majdanek was the only camp to receive deportees from Treblinka?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 24, 2022 9:48:09 GMT
Nessie wrote: Really? Nobody has looked for train records from Treblinka? Gee, who knew? I did not say that. Majdanek has been checked and some records found. I do not know how large the archive is and how many records have been checked. You know the answer to that. Your memory has gone again. How can you not remember witnesses also reported going to Budzyn and Poniatowa?
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 24, 2022 10:28:29 GMT
So, no records of trains into or out of Treblinka (except an unknown number of shuttle trains) at all. How do you know that there weren't trains sent to Treblinka to take deportees to those various locations? How do you know that a "vast majority" of trains entering and leaving Treblinka were on shuttle service?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 24, 2022 12:07:06 GMT
So, no records of trains into or out of Treblinka (except an unknown number of shuttle trains) at all. How do you know that there weren't trains sent to Treblinka to take deportees to those various locations? How do you know that a "vast majority" of trains entering and leaving Treblinka were on shuttle service? 1 - there is no evidence of hundreds of other trains arriving empty to take people away to unknown destinations. Moving c850,000 would leave evidence of it happening.
2 - there is no evidence of where those destinations were. Accommodating c850,000 would leave evidence of it happening.
3 - there was limited space and time between the transports that are evidenced, to fit all those extra trains.
4 - it is evidenced what did happen to those people, they were gassed.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 24, 2022 20:04:02 GMT
Nessie wrote:
What prevents trains that delivered deportees to Treblinka from leaving with passengers? One witness said that he spent only a few hours in Treblinka looking at the sky and listening to the birds before re-boarding the train that brought him to Treblinka. There are only nine fahrplanaordnungs for trains leaving Treblinka empty. Why must hundreds of empty trains arrive at Treblinka to transport the deportees to alternate destinations?
Of course there are records of deportees being sent to alternate destinations.
Again, what prevented the trains arriving at Treblinka with deportees from transporting other deportees from Treblinka to alternate destinations?
It's also evidenced that the deportees to Treblinka were transported to alternate destinations. Where is your PROOF that the deportees were gassed and cremated?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 25, 2022 7:46:53 GMT
Nessie wrote: What prevents trains that delivered deportees to Treblinka from leaving with passengers? Nothing. Your problem is that the vast majority of trains returned empty to the ghetto they came from. Which means a few trains did not return to the ghettos, and they went on to labour camps in Poland. Those Fahrplanordnungs show the times of the trains as they shuttled back and forth, emptying the ghetto. They show the time the train left the gehhto, when it arrived at TII, when it left TII and when it arrived back at the ghetto. If any were then diverted to Majdanek, Budzyn or Poniatowa, then it was either replaced by another shuttle train or it was the last train, that had carried the last passengers from the ghetto. A few thousand to labour camps in Poland, not hundreds of thousands to be resettled in the east. They were being used to empty ghettos and the Fahrplanordnungs record the times the trains arrived back from TII. I have shown you the evidence to prove mass gassings. You have no evidence of mass resettlement in the east. None at all. Nothing.
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 25, 2022 8:12:07 GMT
Nessie wrote:
There were nine fahrpanaordnungs recorded by Wikipedia. Three trains could have accounted for the transports of Jews from Warsaw. Do you have any proof beyond the claims of Wikipedia that the "vast majority" of trains left Treblinka empty?
There are nine (9) fahrplanaordungs. Which ones direct trains to Warsaw?
There is PROOF that thousands DID leave Treblinka for other destinations. You have NO proof whatsoever that they were murdered and cremated. NONE, zip, zero, nada.
That's from your Wikipedia timeline. Are you saying that Wikipedia is a reliable source of information about the holyhoax?
You have stated an opinion that what you call "evidence" is proof that the fantasy of 860,000 being gassed and cremated is factual. You're welcome to your opinion but don't try to sell it as proof.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 25, 2022 8:29:45 GMT
Nessie wrote: There were nine fahrpanaordnungs recorded by Wikipedia. Three trains could have accounted for the transports of Jews from Warsaw. Do you have any proof beyond the claims of Wikipedia that the "vast majority" of trains left Treblinka empty? The evidence to prove the vast majority of trains left TII empty (again) 1 - the trains were timetabled to returned to ghettos that were being emptied. 2 - no one inside TII speaks of full trains leaving 3 - Polish locals and rail workers speak of empty trains departing. 4 - the evidence that the vast majority of those who arrived were gassed. 5 - the removal of their personal property to Lublin. The OP has links to Fahrplanordnungs for Warsaw, the Radom district record with transports from Sedziszow, Syzdlowiec and Kozienice and Lukow. All those ghettos emptied to TII with the train timetabled to return to the ghetto. You are lying again. There is evidence to prove both. When Wikipedia shows it sources, those sources can be checked and there are other sources that corroborate, then yes, Wikipedia is reliable. In the OP I show other sources, not just Wikipedia, which corroborate it. I use the standard, normal forms of evidence, such as eyewitnesses. When a Jewish witness says something you agree with, you believe them. When they say something you do not agree with, you call them a liar. I use a different method, I look to see if the claim made is coroborated.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 25, 2022 9:02:16 GMT
Nessie wrote:
The trains were timetabled by Wikipedia. Giddoutahere with your Wiki bullsh!t.
Nobody inside Treblinka mentioned that trains left Treblinka loaded with passengers even though it's been PROVEN that trains DID leave Treblinka with passengers.
Zabecki and his drunken sidekick aren't reliable witnesses.
It's your opinion that the Jews were gassed and cremated. You have NO proof of that.
In that case let's see those proofs.
Uh-huh.
If a Jew (or anyone else) claims something both reasonable and possible and isn't contradicted I believe them. When they claim impossible fantasies I don't. You make excuses for any Jew who lies if their fantasy supports the holyhoax.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 25, 2022 13:58:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: The trains were timetabled by Wikipedia. Giddoutahere with your Wiki bullsh!t. Wiki and the other site in the OP link to the original Fahrplanordnungs showing the train times. Which evidences how rare such transports were. You only say that because they say what you do not want to hear. The Fahrplanordnungs corroborate them. It is not my opinion that every university and court accepts that there is sufficient evidence to prove mass gassings. Only deniers do not accept that and they are not credible or reliable. I have shown you the evidence on numerous occasions. Evidence is how proof is determined. You use Wiki when it suits you. Since when was digging a pit an impossible claim? ??
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 26, 2022 1:21:35 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Here is the translation of "fahrplanaordnung" from the Wiki site:
That's it, all there is. There are NO entries for specific fahrplanaordnungs from 1942-1943. Not available from my search engine. In any event, "...the timetable of A special train is announced...".
There are nine (9) fahrplanaornungs, timetables for special trains, given in the Wikipedia timeline. The Ganzenmueller/Wolff letter exchange concerns only the population transfer of Jews to Treblinka. Nothing is said about "fahrplanaordnungs" or even the number of trains used to effect that transfer.
The "History of Sorts" shows some untranslated fahrplanaordnungs but is about Amon Goth. Goth was relieved of his command and accused of sequestering goods from the Jews for his own use by the SS. Those charges were evidently dropped and Goth was then committed to a mental institution. There are the usual accusations by Jews of Goth's atrocities and the allies eventually hanged him. Everything else in your OP is from Wikipedia.
Which proves that your claim that nobody noticed that thousands of Jews were boarding trains for other destinations is bullsh!t.
Nessie goes for the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority.
Nessie goes for the weasel dodge that his so-called evidence constitutes proof. Nessie's evidence is based on excuses for lies, "what ifs" and "coulda woulda".
When information from Wiki is empirical, it's suitable. For example, it's explanation of GMT, Greenwich Mean Time, is perfectly acceptable. Wiki's information about the engines used in Soviet tanks of WW II is acceptable. Wiki's claims for political considerations such as the holyhoax aren't reliable.
Nobody has claimed that digging a pit is impossible.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 26, 2022 8:20:00 GMT
Nessie wrote: Here is the translation of "fahrplanaordnung" from the Wiki site: That's it, all there is. There are NO entries for specific fahrplanaordnungs from 1942-1943. Not available from my search engine. In any event, "...the timetable of A special train is announced...". There are nine (9) fahrplanaornungs, timetables for special trains, given in the Wikipedia timeline. The Ganzenmueller/Wolff letter exchange concerns only the population transfer of Jews to Treblinka. Nothing is said about "fahrplanaordnungs" or even the number of trains used to effect that transfer. The "History of Sorts" shows some untranslated fahrplanaordnungs but is about Amon Goth. Goth was relieved of his command and accused of sequestering goods from the Jews for his own use by the SS. Those charges were evidently dropped and Goth was then committed to a mental institution. There are the usual accusations by Jews of Goth's atrocities and the allies eventually hanged him. Everything else in your OP is from Wikipedia. It is evidence full trains left the ghettos, and empty trains returned, with no evidence of onward travel of those sent to TII. How does it prove that? That is not the appeal to authority, I have merely pointed out that all the authorities disagree with you. Only a few deniers think there is insufficient evidence to prove gassings. I have looked at what is and what is not evidenced and denier arguments and side with the authorities, because their case is evidenced and they do not rely on fallacious arguments. That is a dishonest misrepresentation of the evidence. Its publishing of Nazis documents is acceptable. You do it all the time.
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 26, 2022 9:52:34 GMT
Nessie wrote:
It is a claim made on the Wikipedia site. Information about the holyhoax found on the Wiki site is as useless as tits on a goose.
Here is the definition of an appeal to authority:
Neither do ALL authorities disagree with me. Note Professors Kollerstrom, Butz, Faurisson et al.
As far as your other objections such as, "You do it all the time" I call bullsh!t.
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Post by Nessie on Jul 26, 2022 13:50:23 GMT
Nessie wrote: It is a claim made on the Wikipedia site. Information about the holyhoax found on the Wiki site is as useless as tits on a goose. It is a Nazi document that is reproduced on the site. Another is reproduced on another site. The Fahrplanordnung's prove mass transports to TII with empty trains returning. I have not said that because they are authorities, they are correct. I have said that they all disagree with you. You need to explain why you are right and they are all wrong. Fact is, you believe magical mystery trains arrived empty and took hundreds of thousands of Jews away to unknown destinations, without leaving any evidence at all.
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 26, 2022 22:52:02 GMT
Nessie wrote:
The person who wrote the timeline for how the Jews were transported to Treblinka listed nine (9) fahrplanaordnungs. That is special trains to be used to transport Jews. Nine trains aren't a "vast majority" of the trains that entered and left Treblinka. Your claim that Wiki is a reliable source of information about the holyhoax is idiotic. Whether or not your authorities are correct is irrelevant.
Your claim is a fallacy of an appeal to authority. Testimony by expert witnesses can be excepted but not all of your historians are considered to be holyhoax experts. Neither are your journalists and judges. You can weasel dodge from now til forever but your claim is a fallacy; a fallacy of an appeal to authority.
Your claim that trains had to arrive empty at Treblinka to transport Jews away for there is mindless drivel.
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