mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on May 16, 2022 14:28:54 GMT
Mattogno said of transports from TII; holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1&page_id=5"Among the remaining 600 Jews there were 104 women from Grodno and Bialystok who had been sent to Majdanek via Treblinka." "On May 13 the new arrivals included a convoy of 308 Jewish men who had been taken from Warsaw to Treblinka, and thence, after a selection, to Majdanek " He states in footnotes; "In other cases, the selection was performed in Treblinka, even though according to the offi- cial โHolocaustโ literature that camp was โstrictly an extermination campโ! T. Berenstein and Rutkowski (op. cit., note 115) comment: โA few transports from Warsaw arrived in Lublin via Treblinka; a selection of the deportees had been carried out in Treblinka.โ The authors al- so mention that in February 1943, 104 Jewesses were sent to Majdanek from Treblinka, and similarly, in March of the same year, 35 Dutch Jews were sent there from Sobibรณr (also โstrictly an extermination campโ! op. cit., note 115, p. 16). And finally, Leszczyลska reports that 1,700 Jewesses were sent to Majdanek from Beลลผec (the third โstrict extermination campโ! op. cit., note 110, p. 189)." He is expressing surprise that TII has some worker transports, which is odd, since the selection process at death camps is well known and evidenced at other death camps, primarily A-B. He states the same about Sobibor, and expresses surprise about selections there; "This also applies to three transports of Jews from France out of four which came to Sobibor in March 1943: โJews and possibly Jewesses โfit for laborโ were transferred to Majdanekโ (p. 200). Therefore two alleged extermination camps have become instead reservoirs of Jewish labor for Majdanek!" Mattogno has not understood the selection process; "Throughout her work Schwindt emphasizes the importance of Jewish labor in the Lublin district. It had such a value for the SS that Jews fit for labor were selected even in the purported extermination camps of Sobibor and Treblinka. Hence to what purpose would the SS have killed 42,000 prisoners, if the more sensible alternative would have been to transfer them to other labor camps or industries in the West?" The answer is that the Nazis conducted selections for workers when they needed workers and the rest were gassed. No selection process for murder has ever been evidenced to have occurred at A-B. So no. The very notion that nazis would commit mass murder is preposterous. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 16, 2022 14:44:41 GMT
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on May 16, 2022 21:27:26 GMT
Yes, people arrived from trains. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 17, 2022 1:55:52 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie goes for a sly lie again. There are NO train schedules at Majdanek showing the transport of deportees from Treblinka. There are records of Jews arriving from Treblinka but those have nothing to do with train schedules. Nessie's attempt at a sly lie is a FAIL.
If the trains that entered Treblinka and left empty were the "vast majority" there would have been no need for the Germans to assign a limited number of trains to shuttle service. On the contrary, there would be a limited number of trains assigned to transporting Jews from Treblinka to alternate destinations.
Nessie goes for the sly lie again. There aren't ANY train records of Jews being transported to alternate destinations from Treblinka. NONE, zip, zero, nada. Nessie is aware of that but continues with his fiction that "train records" show that only a limited number of deportees left Treblinka. He refuses to acknowledge that the number of trains leaving Treblinka with passengers is UNKNOWN and therefore the number of deportees who left Treblinka is also UNKNOWN.
There aren't any train records at Majdanek. Nessie has been told that a gorillion times but he keeps repeating the lie. There are NO train records/schedules for trains arriving at Majdanek with deportees from Treblinka. Until Hunt upset the apple cart with his video Arad, Black et al. claimed that NO Jews left Treblinka alive save the handful that escaped during the prisoner revolt. Now there they sit with egg on their face. Just as Nessie sits with egg on his face for claiming that the "vast majority" of trains left Treblinka empty.
Lukaszkiewcz provides no proof of his claims and also claims that the graves at Treblinka have disappeared. CS-C claims to have found "probable" graves but published NO complete GPR profile for the Treblinka camp. Nessie's claim that the existence of the mass graves has been established is horse frocky. All he has are his alleged witnesses and their insanely impossible claims.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 17, 2022 2:22:18 GMT
been-there wrote:
It's an application of Nessie's "what if" and "coulda woulda" scenario. "What if" the witnesses were "mistaken", speaking "emotively" or just "exaggerating"? Then the claims for the hermetically sealed gas chambers, the giant graves, the cremations "coulda" happened.
Nessie claims that courts are very lenient to witnesses who all make mistakes, exaggerate, etc. If a witness to a murder claims to have been standing within ten feet of the victim and the accused shot him three times with an 88 mm cannon from from the turret of a Tiger tank and then left the scene at a high rate of speed then the witness should be considered to be telling the truth. After all, he was there and saw the entire sequence of events but just made a "mistake" or was "exaggerating" about the cannon and the tank.
Just like my scenario for Hanks building a plane and flying away from the island. Given enough "what ifs" then anything "coulda woulda" happened.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 17, 2022 7:41:13 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie goes for a sly lie again. There are NO train schedules at Majdanek showing the transport of deportees from Treblinka. There are records of Jews arriving from Treblinka but those have nothing to do with train schedules. Nessie's attempt at a sly lie is a FAIL. Why does it matter what form the transport record is in? It does not matter if it is a train timetable, a train schedule, a record of arrivals at the camp, they all evidence transports of people. You have no evidence of regular mass transports of people back out of TII. The logical conclusion from the lack of any records, of any type, along with any witnesses or any other evidence of regular mass transports of people back out of TII, is that there were no such transports. You reject the archaeological evidence, because it contradicts your desired belief. You demand we reject the evidence from inside TII and believe what you cannot evidence happened. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 17, 2022 7:49:23 GMT
....It's an application of Nessie's "what if" and "coulda woulda" scenario. "What if" the witnesses were "mistaken", speaking "emotively" or just "exaggerating"? Then the claims for the hermetically sealed gas chambers, the giant graves, the cremations "coulda" happened. The "what if" is yours. Witness use of hyperbole, emotive descriptions, exaggerations and making mistakes is normal, standard, common place witness behaviour. All witnesses do it. The "what if" is your what if you take them literally as if they never used hyperbole, exaggerate or make mistakes? You are relying on a false analogy again. A witness who claims someone was shot three times by a Tiger tank and ran away is lying. A claim Tom Hanks could have built a plane on his desert island is a lie. A claim that the Nazis could dig large pits is not a lie, as it is within their abilities to dig large pits. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 17, 2022 8:22:39 GMT
Nessie wrote:
How many trains left Treblinka carrying passengers and how do you know that?
There are no train records for even the deportees who are known to have left Treblinka. (For the gorillionth and one time)
Neither are there any records of any "regular" e.g. scheduled trains arriving at Treblinka. There are records of trains arriving at Treblinka at irregular intervals but NO records for trains leaving Treblinka with passengers either scheduled or irregularly. Such records have either been lost or more likely, destroyed.
I reject the archaeological evidence because CS-C offers offers no corroborating evidence of the GPR profile for the camp. Same as I reject the claims of Krege for the same reason; no GPR profile.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 17, 2022 8:32:44 GMT
Nessie wrote: How many trains left Treblinka carrying passengers and how do you know that? If each witness who claimed to have been at TII, left on a separate train, it would be at most 40 trains, plus the records at Majdanek are of two or three arrivals from TII. I use that thing called evidence to find out how many trains left TII carrying passengers. What difference does it make, if the document is a timetable, a schedule or a camp record of arrivals? You need your regular reminder that not all archives have been checked to see what records there are. Or, since there is no evidence from sources other than records, of regular mass transports full of people back out of TII, there were no such transports. C S-C evidence is corroborated by the 1945 investigation, witness evidence, circumstantial evidence and the 1944 aerial photo. Large pits were dug at TII, followed by a cover up to hide as much as possible what had been buried there. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 17, 2022 9:27:34 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Just like the Germans can dig pits, so do Tiger tanks exist. They ARE armed with 88 mm cannons. Besides, what if the witness just made a mistake and it was an M4 Sherman tank and not a Tiger? The cannon is smaller but the Sherman was much faster so it coulda left the scene at a fairly high rate of speed.
Same with Hanks building a plane from a kit that washed ashore on his island. People build kit planes all of the time. There are companies that specialize in selling such kits. Your claim that the witness to someone being shot with a tank cannon was lying and your claim that Hanks couldn't have built an airplane is horse frocky.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 17, 2022 9:55:18 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No deportees who left Treblinka knew how many trains actually carried passengers from Treblinka. That's specious nonsense. There is a single record of Jews arriving at Treblinka that confirms that Jews left Treblinka alive. It has nothing to do with trains. You have no evidence at all of how many trains left Treblinka carrying passengers.
Because then we know whether or not the witnesses from Hunt's video were the only Jews who left Treblinka. Just as you claim to know how many Jews were sent to Treblinka from the train records.
Nessie is back to claiming that revisionists must search every archive in the world to prove that the records for trains leaving Treblinka are actually gone and can't be found.
Nessie is hanging on to his claim that there must be regular, scheduled trains for Jews leaving Treblinka or no Jews left Treblinka. Revisionists must show that trains left Treblinka daily or weekly excepting Sundays or whatever or no Jews could leave Treblinka. No irregular departures allowed.
Lukaszkiewcz stated in his report that the mass graves at Treblinka no longer existed. What the hell do you mean that he corroborated CS-C's claims for "probable" graves? The 1944 aerial photo shows nothing but the outline of the camp and a building. What do you mean by "circumstantial evidence"?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 17, 2022 14:19:11 GMT
Nessie wrote: Just like the Germans can dig pits, so do Tiger tanks exist. They ARE armed with 88 mm cannons. Besides, what if the witness just made a mistake and it was an M4 Sherman tank and not a Tiger? The cannon is smaller but the Sherman was much faster so it coulda left the scene at a fairly high rate of speed. Same with Hanks building a plane from a kit that washed ashore on his island. People build kit planes all of the time. There are companies that specialize in selling such kits. Your claim that the witness to someone being shot with a tank cannon was lying and your claim that Hanks couldn't have built an airplane is horse frocky.
You can come up with all the analogies you want. Fact is that the witnesses are not claiming something physically impossible when they say the Nazis dug big pits, constructed gas chambers and set pyres. It is the way they describe how they think each worked, that you have an issue with. It is a logical fallacy of non sequitur to claim that if a witness describes how they think something that is physically possible works, in a way that includes claims that are not physically possible, then the witness lied. The reason for that is there is an alternative reasonable explanation, which is the witness did not know all the details about what they describe and they did not describe it very well.
It is also a logical fallacy, that because you do not believe the witness and cannot believe the gas chambers worked, therefore no gas chambers. That is the argument from incredulity.
You are also guilty of making false analogies, such as with the Tiger tank and Tom Hanks.
You have fallen for the denier hoax, because you just cannot get to grips with logic.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 17, 2022 14:34:48 GMT
Nessie wrote: No deportees who left Treblinka knew how many trains actually carried passengers from Treblinka. That's specious nonsense. If you add up the number of witnesses who said they left TII, it comes to about 40. There are about 40 witnesses and the records of transports arriving at Majdanek from TII. Witness and documents are forms of evidence. There is evidence of transports carrying passengers that left TII. IOW, it makes no difference. There is documentary evidence at Majdanek of transports of passengers from TII. Between that and the witnesses traced that Hunt used, there is evidence of limited transports carrying passengers from TII to labour camps in Poland. There is no evidence of regular mass transports from any source. Correct, since until that is done, you cannot prove there are no such documents. Irregular transports of a few hundred adults at a time, to labour camps in Poland, are different from regular mass transports of trains packed full of people to the east. One is evidenced, the other is not. Both the Poles in 1945 and the 2014 investigation found large areas of disturbed ground and cremated remains. The Poles did not have GPR, so they could not differentiate specific disturbed and undisturbed ground, which the 2014 survey could. The 1944 aerial photo also evidences disturbed ground and there are various outlines, which tally with prisoner maps and GPR as a pits; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treblinka_extermination_camp#/media/File:Treblinka_II_aerial_photo_(1944).jpgThe circumstantial evidence is the evidence of mass arrivals, the theft of personal property which then left the camp and the lack of any evidence of regular mass transports of people leaving the camp. That logically fits with the evidence most were killed. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 17, 2022 15:17:37 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Neither is it impossible for people to be killed with a tank. Lots of people have been attacked and killed with tanks. It's a rather ordinary event these days. You just have an issue with how I described the murder scene.
You are claiming that your "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" are different from the "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" that I described in my fictional scenarios. Your witnesses make ridiculous claims and you begin your "what if" and "coulda woulda" claims to excuse the obvious lies of the witnesses. "What if" they were mistaken? Exaggerating? Using emotive language? Absolutely no difference between that and my "what if" a crate containing a kit plane washed ashore on Hanks' island.
Those are scenarios that describe your "what if" and "coulda woulda" tales perfectly.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 17, 2022 15:38:40 GMT
Nessie wrote: Neither is it impossible for people to be killed with a tank. Lots of people have been attacked and killed with tanks. It's a rather ordinary event these days. You just have an issue with how I described the murder scene. You are claiming that your "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" are different from the "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" that I described in my fictional scenarios. Your witnesses make ridiculous claims and you begin your "what if" and "coulda woulda" claims to excuse the obvious lies of the witnesses. "What if" they were mistaken? Exaggerating? Using emotive language? Absolutely no difference between that and my "what if" a crate containing a kit plane washed ashore on Hanks' island. Those are scenarios that describe your "what if" and "coulda woulda" tales perfectly. Witnesses making mistakes, exaggerating, using emotive descriptions and hyperbole is not a "what if". That is exactly how witnesses often behave.
Your suggestion that we should take the witnesses literally is a "what if", because that is not how witnesses behave when giving evidence.
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