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Post by been_there on Aug 16, 2022 5:31:45 GMT
I agree. But in this case event A is not evidenced. Which therefore requires another explanation. Case B is one such. You are in denial of this logic. Which ironically shows that you are the real โdenierโ here. ๐No denier [H-skeptic] has produced an evidenced case as to what did happen inside TII and that hundreds of thousands of people left the camp to be accommodated elsewhere. You are the only โdenierโ here. You deny all evidence and logic that refutes your own wierd, illogical and cultish โbeliefโ. I specify โyour ownโ, because yours does not even fit the accepted H narrative in certain particulars. You want others to provide โevidenceโ but cannot even provide evidence of hundreds of thousands of arrivals at T2.
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Post by been_there on Aug 16, 2022 5:39:26 GMT
I agree. But in this case event A is not evidenced. That is not true. It is evidenced by eye witnesses, documents, physical, archaeological, forensic, photographic and circumstantial evidence. Which means there is evidence, it is just you disagree with it. [Oh boy! Sigh! ๐๐คฆโโ๏ธ๐คช] There has been provided โevidenceโ, yes. But... (concentrate now) it is โevidenceโ which has been refuted!!!!! So this isnโt a case of anyone โ disagreeingโ with the evidence provided. It has been scientifically and empirically proven to be false! This is a case of ignoramuses, and gullible, cultish โbelieversโ refusing to accept their belief has been refuted in certain key particulars. Which makes such people the genuine โ deniersโ here. You are one of the worst cases that I have come across of this irrational, cultish mind-set.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 16, 2022 7:27:55 GMT
No denier has produced an evidenced case as to what did happen inside TII and that hundreds of thousands of people left the camp to be accommodated elsewhere. To find issues with the TII scenario does not make one a "denier"; the evidence produced is not sufficient to warrant blind belief like some do. Treblinka was a set of camps named after the centre town, it was also an exit point. The Germans did not build over 600 camps in Belarus just to leave them empty. Treblinka was a small village, with two camps built on a rail spur to a quarry. Aerial photos, along with a host of other evidence, prove that.
There is no evidence it was an exit point. Around 6,500 to 9,000 are evidenced to have left the camp to go to Majdanek, Budzyn and Poinatowa, labour camps in Poland.
That leaves c840,000 evidenced to have arrived at TII and never left. There is evidence to prove they were gassed.
You cannot produce evidence from eyewitnesses, documents or any other source to prove otherwise.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 16, 2022 7:34:56 GMT
Ulios wrote: There is proof that deportees did leave Treblinka via rail. That is evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp. The ~600 camps built by the Germans in Belarus is more evidence that the AR camps were transit camps. That deportees left TII after witnesses described a process where some from the transport they were on were put back on trains to go and work at labour camps, is a selection process that was also described at other AR camps and A-B. Many survivors talk about being moved from camp to camp for work, which does not make all those camps transit camps. There is no evidence of transports from TII to camps outwith Poland. Evidence a transport that went to TII from somewhere other than a ghetto. There is none. There is no evidence of the mass transportation of c840,000 people back out of TII.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 16, 2022 7:43:20 GMT
No denier [H-skeptic] has produced an evidenced case as to what did happen inside TII and that hundreds of thousands of people left the camp to be accommodated elsewhere. You are the only โdenierโ here. You deny all evidence and logic that refutes your own wierd, illogical and cultish โbeliefโ. TII as an AR camp where hundreds of thousands were gassed and their property taken to be sorted and sold, is evidenced. TII as a transit camp where hundreds of thousands were processed in an unknown way and sent on to places unknown, is not evidenced. It is logical to believe in what is evidenced, over what is not evidenced. It is weird, illogical and cultist to believe in what is not evidenced. What do I say that does not fit the accepted narrative? The evidence of mass transports of hundreds of thousands to TII comes from 1 - ghetto population and transport records 2 - Nazi records specifying mass transports to the camp, such as the Ganzenmuller Letter. 3 - Jewish witnesses from the transports 4 - Nazi witnesses from TII 5 - local Polish witnesses 6 - the circumstances of AR That is six sources of corroborating evidence of mass transports to TII. Only weird, illogical, cultists would deny that. Will you admit to lying that I cannot provide evidence?
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Post by Nessie on Aug 16, 2022 7:54:30 GMT
That is not true. It is evidenced by eye witnesses, documents, physical, archaeological, forensic, photographic and circumstantial evidence. Which means there is evidence, it is just you disagree with it. [Oh boy! Sigh! ๐๐คฆโโ๏ธ๐คช] There has been provided โevidenceโ, yes. You repeatedly lie that no evidence has been provided. You lied when you said; "But in this case event A is not evidenced." and "...cannot even provide evidence of hundreds of thousands of arrivals at T2." Which is different from no evidence. There is no evidence of regular mass transports back out of TII of hundreds of thousands of people. There is evidence of mass gassings, which you claim to have refuted. Which is a form of disagreement. In any case, it is pseudo-science and argument from incredulity that has been used, in an obviously flawed methodology, that is unique to denial. You have fallen for the denier hoax, which is an unevidenced argument that cannot evidence what did actually happen. You are the irrational, deluded cultist.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Aug 16, 2022 8:00:37 GMT
And yet Korherr states they passed through the camps. You hate to think this evidence is real so you claim he lied.
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Post by been_there on Aug 16, 2022 8:31:38 GMT
[Oh boy! Sigh! ๐๐คฆโโ๏ธ๐คช] There has been provided โevidenceโ, yes. But... (concentrate now) it is โevidenceโ which has been refuted!!!!! You repeatedly lie that no evidence has been provided. You lied when you said; "But in this case event A is not evidenced." and "...cannot even provide evidence of hundreds of thousands of arrivals at T2." Which is different from no evidence... I assumed you were honest enough and intelligent enough to understand that we are talking ONLY about credible โevidenceโ. So, my mistake. As by your own admission here, you clearly do not fit either category.
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Post by Turnagain on Aug 16, 2022 8:33:11 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie skips over a couple of trainloads of deportees leaving Treblinka but really hangs on to his claim that there's only "evidence" for deportees leaving Treblinka not any proof. Admitting that there's proof of the deportees leaving Treblinka would really screw up his claim that there's no evidence for Treblinka being a transit camp. The fact that deportees were proven to have left Treblinka is evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp and under no circumstances can Nessie allow that. Nope, admitting that there's proof of deportees leaving Treblinka is strictly verboten. Well, according to Nessie.
Yep, that's what I've been telling you for the last forty-leven posts. The records for trains inbound and outbound (except fahrplanaordnungs) for Treblinka are no longer available. As said, those records have been destroyed, hidden or lost. There is no doubt that they existed but now they're gone, disappeared. Those records would provide an definitive answer to how many Jews and others were sent to Treblinka and how many left and they have miraculously disappeared. Such a strange coincidence.
There is no proof of ~840,000 or 700,000 or 925,000 or 1,200,000 or 3,000,000 deportees being sent to Treblinka. Those are just estimates and not actual numbers. The actual number of deportees sent to Treblinka and then transported to other destinations seems to be forever unknown in the absence of train records or some other definitive document. That some deportees were proven to have left Treblinka is evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp. The fact that the Germans built some ~600 camps in Belarus that had to be populated is further evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 16, 2022 8:34:31 GMT
And yet Korherr states they passed through the camps. You hate to think this evidence is real so you claim he lied. No, he was lied to. A few did pass through, and went to work at other camps. Some Dutch Jews passed through Sobibor and went to work at A-B. Some Warsaw Jews passed through TII and went to work at Majdanek. The lie was to suggest to Korherr that all of them passed through.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 16, 2022 8:37:46 GMT
You repeatedly lie that no evidence has been provided. You lied when you said; "But in this case event A is not evidenced." and "...cannot even provide evidence of hundreds of thousands of arrivals at T2." Which is different from no evidence... I assumed you were honest enough and intelligent enough to understand that we are talking ONLY about credible โevidenceโ. So, my mistake. As by your own admission here, you clearly do not fit either category. You are moving the goalposts to excuse your lying that there is no evidence of hundreds of thousands of arrivals at TII.
You are doing that to dodge discussing the actual, total lack of evidence of hundreds of thousands of departures from TII.
You do that to avoid having to think about that lack of evidence, as it challenges your cultist beliefs.
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Post by been_there on Aug 16, 2022 8:43:25 GMT
I assumed you were honest enough and intelligent enough to understand that we are talking ONLY about credible โevidenceโ. So, my mistake. As by your own admission here, you clearly do not fit either category. You are moving the goalposts to excuse your lying that there is no evidence of hundreds of thousands of arrivals at TII.
You are doing that to dodge discussing the actual, total lack of evidence of hundreds of thousands of departures from TII.
You do that to avoid having to think about that lack of evidence, as it challenges your cultist beliefs.
Ha ha! ๐๐คฃ So you admit that when asking for evidence for our argument you didnโt and still donโt think we need to only discuss credible evidence! ๐คฆโโ๏ธ๐คช
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Aug 16, 2022 8:44:38 GMT
The lie was to suggest to Korherr that all of them passed through. Yes of course leaving 600 empty camps within "White Russia" and Ostland.
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Post by Turnagain on Aug 16, 2022 8:50:48 GMT
Nessie wrote:
LOL! That's a good 'un, Nessie. Korherr was lied to except when he wasn't lied to. Gotta' give you high marks for inventiveness.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 16, 2022 8:51:53 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie skips over a couple of trainloads of deportees leaving Treblinka... Not true. Including the claimed mass transports, that is where the c9000 top end figure comes from. You have been quiet about the mass transport that arrived from Malkinia, not TII and that Kulawy is likely mixed up what camps he was at. You are confused. I have said there is evidence to prove a few thousand left TII in elections to go to labour camps in Poland. The evidence is proof of a selection process, the same as described at Sobibor and A-B. That does not make TII a transit camp, as it does not evidence Sobibor or A-B were transit camps. Going by your definition, any camp that had prisoners transported out of it to work at another camp, was a transit camp. That means every camp is, according to you, a transit camp! Yep, that's what I've been telling you for the last forty-leven posts. The records for trains inbound and outbound (except fahrplanaordnungs) for Treblinka are no longer available. As said, those records have been destroyed, hidden or lost. There is no doubt that they existed but now they're gone, disappeared. Those records would provide an definitive answer to how many Jews and others were sent to Treblinka and how many left and they have miraculously disappeared. Such a strange coincidence.[/quote] The ghetto documents recording the transportation of c850,000 people from those ghettos, on trains that left empty to back to the ghetto, have survived. Various Nazi documents recording mass transportations either from ghettos or arriving at TII have survived. Two records survive at Majdanek recording transports from TII. What mystery transports are you referring to, where documents have not survived? Where did those people come from? Where did they go to? Everyone else out of the c850,000 has been accounted for. There is evidence to prove at least 700,000 were sent to TII and the actual number was higher than that. There is evidence to prove a few thousand were sent to labour camps in Poland. There is no evidence, let alone proof hundreds of thousands left TII. The records you claim are missing, never existed, because there were no mass transports taking hundreds of thousands from TII.
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