Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on May 13, 2022 0:20:31 GMT
The Soviets destroyed all of the outbound train records for trains transporting Jews out of Treblinka. That trains carrying deportees out of Treblinka is known. Zabecki, Nessie's premier eyewitness to railroad evidence, claimed that those trains didn't exist. Nessie's historians such as Arad claimed that only a handful, less than 100 Jews, escaped from Treblinka after an uprising. Wiernik, Rajchman et al. also concur that the only people to have left Treblinka alive were the escapees. These people are known liars about Jews being transported out of Treblinka yet Nessie continues to claim that hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered at Treblinka based on their testimony.
Nessie claims to know for a fact that the 15-20,000 Jews transported out of Treblinka were the only Jews to escape being gassed at Treblinka by being transported to alternate destinations in the Lublin district. How does he know that? How do you KNOW that the 15-20,000 were the only deportees who left Treblinka alive, Nessie?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 13, 2022 8:09:38 GMT
Nessie wrote: For years hoaxsters claimed that only a handful of people escaped Treblinka alive after a rebellion by the inmates. Wiernik wrote in his book that the Germans killed a German woman and her two sons to keep the Treblinka extermination facility a secret. That has been proven to be a lie. Not a "mistake" or an "exaggeration" but an outright LIE. How has it been proved a lie? Where is your evidence? Your doubts are not evidence. The amount of corroborating evidence I have is sufficient to prove mass gassings, graves and cremations. You only disagree, because you want to convince yourself of the denier hoax. You happily believe in mass resettlement, despite there being no evidence of that form any source at all. That proves your beliefs are not driven by what is and what is not evidenced. That no witness to gassings speaks to seeing the selection process and the small number of people who left TII, is evidence how few left TII. You have exaggerated the number of people for whom there is evidence they left TII. Hunt's list of witnesses adds up to c9000 at most and since a number of those transports may not have left TII, such as Sam Kulawy, that number is likely lower. There is evidence of gassings, which is why there is reason to believe the rest were not also sent in mystery trains to mystery destinations. There is no evidence of regular mass transports of trains packed full of people and the resettlement of c850,000 people from TII, 1942-3. Unlike you I go with what is evidence, you prefer what is not evidenced. You are lying again. You have lied so often that there is no evidence, when there is a lot of evidence, I made this thread on the old forum web.archive.org/web/20210423162204/http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3808which lists the evidence that is online for TII. I also started this thread here; rodoh.freeforums.net/thread/255/claims-suggestions-evidenceto show how often you lie and claim there is no evidence. You do that to deflect from your actual lack of evidence. The ash scattered on the ground at TII had been through a modern crematorium. The bits of bone shard found during the walkover survey in 2014, are from an incomplete cremation and are larger than ashes. You are lying that is the only evidence of cremains at TII, since you ignore the 1945 survey and the remains reburied in the 1960s when the memorial was built. Your belief is built on constantly lying to yourself.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 13, 2022 8:39:40 GMT
The Soviets destroyed all of the outbound train records for trains transporting Jews out of Treblinka. You have no evidence of that. You are referring to your imaginary trains, that arrived empty at TII from places unknown, collected hundreds of thousands of passengers without anyone noticing, and then left for destinations unknown. Indeed they are known, because transports leave evidence. Except when they are your magical transports that whisk hundreds of thousands of people to magical camps in the sky!!!! So few trains left TII carrying passengers, that those working at TII, or on the railways nearby, did not notice them. I know because of the evidence, evidence I have discussed with you at length, but you pretend to forget and then lie there is no evidence. The evidence is, AGAIN!!!!! 1 - Nazi transport records showing timetables of trains from ghettos, that returned to the ghettos empty. 2 - Nazi documents recording transports to TII, with no corresponding departures (Holfe, Ganzenmuller, Stroop). 3 - Polish witnesses to full trains arriving and empty trains leaving, or some trains leaving carrying property. 4 - the circumstantial evidence of AR, whereby property was taken from TII to Lublin for sorting and selling, which leaves the Jews you say were resettled with nothing, not even their clothes. 5 - no witness who worked inside TII, Nazi or Jew, makes any reference to mass departures of people. Oh, it was at most 9000 who left TII, according to the evidence of those who say they left TII. Eric Hunt made a handy list of their claims and the total is at most 9000 studylib.net/doc/7233192/treblinka-transit-list-editedThe actual number is lower, since there is evidence not all of those witnesses were at TII. Your figure of 15-20,000 is unevidenced.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on May 13, 2022 10:08:13 GMT
Nessie wrote:
If the Soviets didn't destroy or hide the outbound train records then where are they? No matter how you turn and squirm, the outbound train records aren't available except for trains assigned to hauling Jews to Treblinka. The number of trains that left Treblinka carrying passengers is UNKNOWN. From your "Treblinka-Transit-List-edited" it shows that 34 trains left Treblinka carrying passengers. That's a rough count of deportees who claim to have left Treblinka but it's from your own list. Other than testimony from surviving Jews no records for any of those trains exist. NONE, zip, zero, nada.
Nessie wrote:
In that case, where are the records of those trains that left Treblinka carrying passengers? There were apparently 34 (or thereabouts) trains that left Treblinka carrying passengers so where are the effing train schedules for those transports?
That's just soooooo believable. Thirty trains or better left Treblinka with passengers and nobody, not Wiernik or Rajchman, not Zabecki or Grabowski nor anyone else "noticed" them. The fact remains that you don't know how many trains left Treblinka carrying passengers.
From Nessie's link:
Sam Kulawy -- Left Treblinka with an entire trainload of men, women and children. Runia Lunski -- Left Treblinka with an entire trainload of deportees. Jacob Rozmaryn -- Left Treblinka with 2,000 deportees in following trolleys. Helen Schwartz -- Left Treblinka with "every car" filled with deportees.
Apparently none of the above specified exactly how many were in those trainloads so Nessie doesn't count them as leaving Treblinka. How many were in a trainload, Nessie?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 13, 2022 11:37:36 GMT
Nessie wrote: If the Soviets didn't destroy or hide the outbound train records then where are they? Your magical trains did not exist, there were no records to destroy. Ghetto transport records show the timetables of trains that left the ghettos full and returned empty. Since ghettos account for all the trains sent to TII, that covers every train. I have shown you the online records, which since it includes Warsaw, accounts for about 30% of known ghetto transports to TII. The 394 known ghetto transports cover most days the camp was open, so where was the opportuinity for hundreds of empty trains to arrive and take people away? Eric Hunt's Treblinka transit list includes transports for which there is no evidence they left TII. There are two records Mattogno found a source for, of transports to Majdanek. We do not know what else is in the archives for Majdanek, Budzyn and Poniatowa camps. The effing train schedules will be the archives. You have been told that many times. First, prove they left TII and were not mistaken about what camp they were at. Kulawy said he went to A-B, and there was a transport from Malkinina to A-B. Schwartz said she went from Majdanek to TII which is the opposite direction to everyone else. You have never read the testimony of the other two to check to see if they are correct. You just assume they are, because it suits you. When there were 394 transports, which needed splitting to fit into TII, that means over 1000 trains entered TII and you think every witness would definitely notice 4 you think you have evidence left full of people. Even if it was 30, that is 3% of trains leaving with people, so no wonder no witness spotted them, especially witnesses like Wiernik, who did not work at the camp station.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on May 13, 2022 13:04:13 GMT
Nessie wrote:
There are no records of the thirty or so trains that DID leave Treblinka with passengers. You continually harp on the number of trains that left Treblinka empty but refuse to mention the number of trains that left Treblinka with passengers. You claim that nobody "noticed" those trains but why isn't there any train schedules for them? You also maintain that Mattogno found train schedules for at least two trains but never post a link to Mattogno doing so. Where's your link, Nessie?
Really? Apparently the trains that left Treblinka with passengers didn't exist? The only people who left Treblinka alive were the handful that successfully escaped after the camp uprising? The witnesses to people leaving Treblinka along with the corroborating evidence are all lies? Geez, who knew?
Nessie's records of trains carrying Jews to Treblinka all come from, wait for it...WIKIPEDIA. What could be a more reliable and unbiased source of holyhoax information than WIDIPEDIA? Otherwise he gets his information from such known liars as Wiernik, Rajchman, Arad et al. Nessie NEVER questions any claims made for the holyhoax. Every syllable is the gospel truth even it's proven to be a lie. The official narrative was that nobody except a few escapees left Treblinka alive. Then Hunt and his video taken from the UCLA films threw a monkey wrench into that particular lie.
NO! Their claims are corroborated by a record at Majdanek and from the USHMM. If you have proof that nobody left Treblinka alive save the escapees and that the deportees who left Treblinka actually left from some alternate camp then YOU produce it. I DON'T have to disprove your fantasies and fairy tales.
Your claim that Wiernik et al. wouldn't have noticed people getting on trains to leave Treblinka is laughable. That still doesn't explain why the train schedules for those trains no longer exist. Just as your claim that 30% of an unknown number is somehow known is mind-numbingly stupid.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 13, 2022 16:45:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: There are no records of the thirty or so trains that DID leave Treblinka with passengers. You continually harp on the number of trains that left Treblinka empty but refuse to mention the number of trains that left Treblinka with passengers. You claim that nobody "noticed" those trains but why isn't there any train schedules for them? You also maintain that Mattogno found train schedules for at least two trains but never post a link to Mattogno doing so. Where's your link, Nessie? Stop lying. I posted a link here to Mattogno, 3 days ago, rodoh.info/post/7628/threadHere is the link again codoh.com/library/document/concentration-camp-majdanek/en/"On May 13 the new arrivals included a convoy of 308 Jewish men who had been taken from Warsaw to Treblinka, and thence, after a selection, to Majdanek." "The authors al-so mention that in February 1943, 104 Jewesses were sent to Majdanek from Treblinka" There may be more, there are 362 references to Treblinka in his book. You do not know what is in the archives, so you are in no position to assert there are no records, when there clearly are. Some historians did not know about the few worker trains sent to Majdanek, Budzyn and Poniatowa. No historian is going to know every single detail. Eric Hunt now admits that those people do not evidence TII as a transit camp. Instead they are just evidence TII also had a selection process, as did other death camps, where some got lucky and were sent to work in labour camps. Hunt did not thrown a monkey wrench in anything. All he did was publicise, so that it is now better known, that TII did have a selection process. NO! It is up to you to prove they were at TII. Weirnik did not work at the camp station. He worked at the section of the camp with the gas chambers and graves. There is no known witness who worked at the station as people arrived. The Nazis did not bother to mention departures, because there were so few. There are no schedules for empty trains arriving at TII to take people away, because there were no such trains. Your mystery trains that arrived and took away c850,000 people to be resettled, without leaving any evidence, are a fantasy. The known numbers are 394 ghetto transports to TII, sending c860,000 people to the camp, of which c30% have timetables that are online and c30% came from Warsaw. I am using a percentage of known figures.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on May 13, 2022 17:24:05 GMT
Nessie wrote: There are no records of the thirty or so trains that DID leave Treblinka with passengers. You continually harp on the number of trains that left Treblinka empty but refuse to mention the number of trains that left Treblinka with passengers. You claim that nobody "noticed" those trains but why isn't there any train schedules for them? You also maintain that Mattogno found train schedules for at least two trains but never post a link to Mattogno doing so. Where's your link, Nessie? Stop lying. I posted a link here to Mattogno, 3 days ago, rodoh.info/post/7628/threadHere is the link again codoh.com/library/document/concentration-camp-majdanek/en/"On May 13 the new arrivals included a convoy of 308 Jewish men who had been taken from Warsaw to Treblinka, and thence, after a selection, to Majdanek." "The authors al-so mention that in February 1943, 104 Jewesses were sent to Majdanek from Treblinka" There may be more, there are 362 references to Treblinka in his book. You do not know what is in the archives, so you are in no position to assert there are no records, when there clearly are. Some historians did not know about the few worker trains sent to Majdanek, Budzyn and Poniatowa. No historian is going to know every single detail. Eric Hunt now admits that those people do not evidence TII as a transit camp. Instead they are just evidence TII also had a selection process, as did other death camps, where some got lucky and were sent to work in labour camps. Hunt did not thrown a monkey wrench in anything. All he did was publicise, so that it is now better known, that TII did have a selection process. NO! It is up to you to prove they were at TII. Weirnik did not work at the camp station. He worked at the section of the camp with the gas chambers and graves. There is no known witness who worked at the station as people arrived. The Nazis did not bother to mention departures, because there were so few. There are no schedules for empty trains arriving at TII to take people away, because there were no such trains. Your mystery trains that arrived and took away c850,000 people to be resettled, without leaving any evidence, are a fantasy. The known numbers are 394 ghetto transports to TII, sending c860,000 people to the camp, of which c30% have timetables that are online and c30% came from Warsaw. I am using a percentage of known figures. "Weirnik did not work at the camp station. He worked at the section of the camp with the gas chambers and graves. There is no known witness who worked at the station as people arrived. The Nazis did not bother to mention departures, because there were so few." T2 wasn't a large camp so no, wiernik would know who was coming and going. People left T2, that's clear.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on May 15, 2022 17:49:18 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Mattogno deemed Leszczynska's claims to be worthless. You claim it to be "evidence". Gee, who to believe?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 18:43:06 GMT
Nessie wrote: Mattogno deemed Leszczynska's claims to be worthless. You claim it to be "evidence". Gee, who to believe? Why is that, when it is evidence that supports your claims of people being transported out of TII?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 15, 2022 18:56:45 GMT
Mattogno said of transports from TII; holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1&page_id=5"Among the remaining 600 Jews there were 104 women from Grodno and Bialystok who had been sent to Majdanek via Treblinka." "On May 13 the new arrivals included a convoy of 308 Jewish men who had been taken from Warsaw to Treblinka, and thence, after a selection, to Majdanek " He states in footnotes; "In other cases, the selection was performed in Treblinka, even though according to the offi- cial โHolocaustโ literature that camp was โstrictly an extermination campโ! T. Berenstein and Rutkowski (op. cit., note 115) comment: โA few transports from Warsaw arrived in Lublin via Treblinka; a selection of the deportees had been carried out in Treblinka.โ The authors al- so mention that in February 1943, 104 Jewesses were sent to Majdanek from Treblinka, and similarly, in March of the same year, 35 Dutch Jews were sent there from Sobibรณr (also โstrictly an extermination campโ! op. cit., note 115, p. 16). And finally, Leszczyลska reports that 1,700 Jewesses were sent to Majdanek from Beลลผec (the third โstrict extermination campโ! op. cit., note 110, p. 189)." He is expressing surprise that TII has some worker transports, which is odd, since the selection process at death camps is well known and evidenced at other death camps, primarily A-B. He states the same about Sobibor, and expresses surprise about selections there; "This also applies to three transports of Jews from France out of four which came to Sobibor in March 1943: โJews and possibly Jewesses โfit for laborโ were transferred to Majdanekโ (p. 200). Therefore two alleged extermination camps have become instead reservoirs of Jewish labor for Majdanek!" Mattogno has not understood the selection process; "Throughout her work Schwindt emphasizes the importance of Jewish labor in the Lublin district. It had such a value for the SS that Jews fit for labor were selected even in the purported extermination camps of Sobibor and Treblinka. Hence to what purpose would the SS have killed 42,000 prisoners, if the more sensible alternative would have been to transfer them to other labor camps or industries in the West?" The answer is that the Nazis conducted selections for workers when they needed workers and the rest were gassed.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on May 16, 2022 4:45:04 GMT
Your mish-mash of unrelated quotes and footnotes make no sense. Do better.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 16, 2022 10:48:17 GMT
Your mish-mash of unrelated quotes and footnotes make no sense. Do better. Why are Mattogno and you rejecting evidence of transports from TII to Majdanek, when that is evidence in your favour?
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on May 16, 2022 11:59:22 GMT
Your mish-mash of unrelated quotes and footnotes make no sense. Do better. Why are Mattogno and you rejecting evidence of transports from TII to Majdanek, when that is evidence in your favour? There are many reports of deaths on the train for many reasons. What do the transport documents say about these.?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 16, 2022 12:09:00 GMT
Why are Mattogno and you rejecting evidence of transports from TII to Majdanek, when that is evidence in your favour? There are many reports of deaths on the train for many reasons. What do the transport documents say about these.? I am not aware of transport documents that record the number who arrived dead.
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