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Post by Turnagain on Jul 25, 2022 22:59:24 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie weasel dodges again. CS-C never claimed to have definitely found the gravesites. She said that she found pits that were "probable" graves. She always hedged her claims and never produced the GPR profile of the camp. She then said that she "hoped" to return to Treblinka but never did so.
He didn't. He just described the graves as being 6X15X120 meters. All claims for the mass graves at Treblinka were beyond the capabilities of the M&H dragline.
Only a complete idiot would claim that the M&H dragline could have dug the pits described by the witnesses and Nessie. Nessie fails to grasp the actual capabilities of the M&H. 32 cubic meters per meter is a very large pile of dirt as shown in the photos of the M&H working in T-I. A grave only 8 meters wide presents problems with filling the grave with cadavers. It would be necessary to leave walkways on both sides of the grave and there would still be a problem filling the center of the grave. It's claimed that the sonderkommandos simply dumped the bodies into the graves. It would be necessary to throw the cadavers up to 13 feet to the center of the grave. That's grotesque. The air would be filled with flying corpses.
Why wouldn't the very practical Germans have excavated smaller graves that were more easily filled and excavated the graves on an as needed basis? The answer of course is that there wasn't the area needed for that in the totenlager to bury 725,000 cadavers.
Why do both revisionists and believers so seldom consider the practicalities, the "nuts and bolts" of the holyhoax? When I was allowed to post at the Klown's forum I brought up the subject of the limitations of the M&H dragline and was roundly ridiculed for such "nonsense". At the CODOH forum I brought up the definitions of effective pistol ranges and the ballistics of the 9mm parabellum cartridge and was told by one poster that I should stick to relevant subjects. Everyone seems to be so caught up in historical research, the delving into archives and examining documents that they forget the first rule of evidence: "Is it possible?".
Was it possible for the Germans to bury up to 725,000 cadavers inside the totenlager? No. Was it possible for the Germans to exhume those bodies using the clamshell equipped M&H dragline? No. Was it possible for the Germans to have stacked up to 3,000 cadavers on a grate constructed from railroad rails and concrete pylons that was 1.5X30 meters? No. Was it possible for the Germans to cremate those 3,000 cadavers using some mysterious exothermic process? No, it wasn't.
Nessie claims to know what Lukaszkiewcz was thinking. Is it possible for Nessie to divine the thoughts of Lukaszkiewcz? No, it isn't.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 26, 2022 8:11:05 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie weasel dodges again. CS-C never claimed to have definitely found the gravesites. She said that she found pits that were "probable" graves. She always hedged her claims and never produced the GPR profile of the camp. She then said that she "hoped" to return to Treblinka but never did so. She said that she found large pits in the area of the camp where witnesses said large pits had been dug. That is evidence to corroborate the witnesses and further prove the Nazis dug large pits at TII. Assuming that was the only excavator used and the labourers were all allowed to just stood around and watch. You are again assuming that was the only excavator used and the labourers were all allowed to just stood around and watch. You have invented an unrealistic scenario, where the Nazis only had a M&H dragline and did not think to use any other machine or the slave labourers they had on tap. I have shown you how there was space. I don't fall for the fallacy of incredulity as you do. If it is evidenced to have happened, then it happened and just because I cannot figure out all the details, does not mean it did not happen. It just means I cannot figure out all the details. Your suggestion that the Germans, of all people, could not figure out how to build gas chambers, dig large pits and cremate on pyres, is just stupid. Your arrogance that you think that because you cannot work it out, not one can, is quite staggering and childish at the same time. My evidenced based beliefs are logical, your argument from incredulity is not. No, I can read what he said and understand the context. He said he found no mass graves, he also said what he did find, which is a huge area of disturbed ground full of cremated remains, explained by the witnesses to be the result of the mass graves being exhumed, the bodies cremated and mixed back into the ground. |
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 26, 2022 8:43:27 GMT
Nessie wrote: I have invented nothing. All of the witnesses said that the graves were dug with a dragline. Nobody said squat about laborers using equipment of any sort to haul away the ex. YOU are the one presenting alternate scenarios to what was claimed by the eyewitnesses. Nessie presents his scenarios and then claims his imaginary graves would fit inside the totenlager. The witnesses make claims that are physically impossible. Nessie says he can't figure out how it happened but physically impossible claims are possible. NASA sent men to the moon. The little boy didn't ride his tricycle to the moon. The Germans could build gas chambers, dig large pits and cremate cadavers on a pyre. They couldn't perform the events described by the eyewitnesses. Read the NAFCASH challenge. See: duckduckgo.com/?q=nafcash+challenge&t=newext&atb=v326-1&ia=web |
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Post by Nessie on Jul 26, 2022 13:44:40 GMT
Nessie wrote: I have invented nothing. All of the witnesses said that the graves were dug with a dragline. Nobody said squat about laborers using equipment of any sort to haul away the ex. YOU are the one presenting alternate scenarios to what was claimed by the eyewitnesses. We have been through this before. NO witness uses the term dragline. They use terms like excavator. You happily invent a scenario that the Nazis thought, let's only dig using a dragline and let the Jewish prisoners stand around and watch and have a nice rest. Or, there is the more likely and credible scenario of they could dig large pits using equipment from the quarry and labourers as needed. I use the same figures you use and have proved there enough space. How is saying that an excavator dug a pit, a physically impossible claim? Just because the witness possibly overestimated the size of the pit, does not make their claim physically impossible. Same with the gas chambers. Just because no witness mentioned how any pressure issues were dealt with, does not mean gas chambers are a physical possibility. You have fallen hook, line and sinker for the fallacy of incredulity, so much so that no amount of explaining why it is flawed logic will shake you from your beliefs. Your argument is of the same form of me arguing, I can see how it was done, therefore it happened. Can you see the logical flaw now? You need to learn the difference between a witness saying something happened and then describing how they think it was done. Can you see the difference? Probably not, but most people can. According to your argument, if someone who sees a moon rocket launch, but they cannot describe to your satisfaction how the rocket worked, then they are lying a rocket was launched. Since you admit the Germans could dig pits etc, then when witnesses say the Germans dug pits they are not making physically impossible claims. Just because the witnesses think the pits were dug in a way you interpret to be physically impossible, does not then make the witness a liar and no pit was dug. It is a stupid challenge. Lukaskiewicz found what the witness said was at the camp, mass graves that had been emptied of bodies, which were cremated and the cremains mixed back into the ground. He also found that ground even more disturbed due to the grave robbing. |
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 26, 2022 22:20:57 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No one has claimed that they did.
No, you don't. You claim that the dragline dug a 5X20X100 meter pit. It can't do that.
Digging a pit of the size that you and the witnesses describe is impossible for an unaided M&H mB dragline.
Nessie excuses the lies of the alleged witnesses.
Then it should be easy money for you. All you have to do is prove what Lukkaszkiewicz said was true.
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Post by Nessie on Jul 27, 2022 12:44:39 GMT
Nessie wrote: No one has claimed that they did. You do all the time. Yes it can, by moving about, use of ancillary equipment and labourers. Which logically does not therefore mean no pits. There are also the alternatives of the witnesses overestimated the size of the pits or it was not the dragline being used on its own. There are three logical alternatives, to find out which one is correct, requires evidence. The geophysical evidence suggests the witnesses over estimated the size of the pits and, since the camp was next a quarry, there was clearly all the equipment needed, so whatever dug the quarry, dug the pits. No, you are missing the point. A witness said he saw a rocket launched is obviously different from a witness who describes how a rocket works. You cannot determine if a witness did see the rocket launch, from their description of how they think the rocket works. The time I start the challenge, as I answered questions, Gerdes panicked and started to change the questions and add new questions. |
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 28, 2022 0:20:17 GMT
Nessie wrote: No one has claimed that they did. You do all the time. Yes it can, by moving about, use of ancillary equipment and labourers. Which logically does not therefore mean no pits. There are also the alternatives of the witnesses overestimated the size of the pits or it was not the dragline being used on its own. There are three logical alternatives, to find out which one is correct, requires evidence. The geophysical evidence suggests the witnesses over estimated the size of the pits and, since the camp was next a quarry, there was clearly all the equipment needed, so whatever dug the quarry, dug the pits. No, you are missing the point. A witness said he saw a rocket launched is obviously different from a witness who describes how a rocket works. You cannot determine if a witness did see the rocket launch, from their description of how they think the rocket works. The time I start the challenge, as I answered questions, Gerdes panicked and started to change the questions and add new questions. Nessie is offended by my use of the American term, "dragline" for the equipment used to allegedly dig the graves at Treblinka. Would "digger" or "seilbagger" suit you better, Nessie"
Name and quote the witness who claims that auxiliary equipment and laborers were used to haul the ex away from the gravesites.
Nessie continues to excuse the lies of the alleged eyewitnesses.
Nessie claims to have won the NAFCASH challenge but Gerdes reneged on paying him. Anyone care to contact Gerdes and inform him of Nessie's claim?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jul 28, 2022 8:01:33 GMT
You do all the time. Yes it can, by moving about, use of ancillary equipment and labourers. Which logically does not therefore mean no pits. There are also the alternatives of the witnesses overestimated the size of the pits or it was not the dragline being used on its own. There are three logical alternatives, to find out which one is correct, requires evidence. The geophysical evidence suggests the witnesses over estimated the size of the pits and, since the camp was next a quarry, there was clearly all the equipment needed, so whatever dug the quarry, dug the pits. No, you are missing the point. A witness said he saw a rocket launched is obviously different from a witness who describes how a rocket works. You cannot determine if a witness did see the rocket launch, from their description of how they think the rocket works. The time I start the challenge, as I answered questions, Gerdes panicked and started to change the questions and add new questions. Nessie is offended by my use of the American term, "dragline" for the equipment used to allegedly dig the graves at Treblinka. Would "digger" or "seilbagger" suit you better, Nessie" Name and quote the witness who claims that auxiliary equipment and laborers were used to haul the ex away from the gravesites. Nessie continues to excuse the lies of the alleged eyewitnesses. You continue to claim that people only speak literally and never exaggerate, use emotive descriptions and mistakes are lies. You are lying, I have said no such thing. Stop lying. |
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 28, 2022 9:20:52 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie continues to drag out his pitiful litany excuses for the lies of the so-called witnesses. They just made some little "mistakes" or "exaggerated" and so on for every, single, last witness. Nessie can't name and quote ONE (1) witness to the alleged atrocities that doesn't require some of his excuses. Not ONE!
In that case, what question did you ask Gerdes that required him to change the rules of the NAFCASH challenge and renege on his offer to pay anyone who could answer the challenge?
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Post by Nessie on Jul 28, 2022 15:20:26 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie continues to drag out his pitiful litany excuses for the lies of the so-called witnesses. They just made some little "mistakes" or "exaggerated" and so on for every, single, last witness. Nessie can't name and quote ONE (1) witness to the alleged atrocities that doesn't require some of his excuses. Not ONE! There is no witness who you do not need to think up an excuse to claim they lied. Only in la-la land do witnesses talk literally and do not make mistakes. You don't talk literally and you make mistakes!!!!! As I started work my way through the questions, he started to change them. I have looked through the old forum and cannot find the thread, which was Berg challenging me to answer the questions. |
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 29, 2022 7:19:09 GMT
Nessie wrote:
I make no excuses. I just quote what the witnesses said.
Only in holyhoax la-la land does every single last witness, every one without fail, need a litany of excuses and "what ifs" to make his testimony even remotely possible.
IOW, your claim that you forced Gerdes to change the rules of the NAFCASH challenge and renege on paying the money due you is just bullsh!t.
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Post by Nessie on Jul 29, 2022 7:47:23 GMT
Nessie wrote: I make no excuses. I just quote what the witnesses said. You take them very literally. You don't speak that way, so why do you think the witnesses would? I am pointing out how witnesses behave normally. You ignore that the Nazi testimony is far more matter of fact, so your arguments from incredulity don't work, so you have to claim they were all coerced into lying. He did not change the rules, he just added more questions. I did not force him, I kept on asking him to stop altering questions! |
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 29, 2022 8:31:57 GMT
Nessie wrote:
I don't say that the grave was 6X15X120 meters on one occasion and claim that they were 12X30X50 meters on another. Neither do I claim that there were a total of five graves on one occasion and eleven on anther. Neither do I claim that cremation is an exothermic process. I wouldn't say that a building/room that lacked ventilation was hermetically sealed. I would say it was "stuffy" or needed to have a window opened. Your claim that I speak the same way as the Treblinka witnesses is bullsh!t.
Uh-huh, like the German who claimed that the cadavers burned on their own. Like the German to testified that the Jew's noses turned blue from CO poisoning. Care to be a little more specific about which Germans told the absolute truth?
Uh-huh, you really got over on ol' Gerdes. Well, according to you.
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Post by Nessie on Jul 29, 2022 14:36:09 GMT
Nessie wrote: I don't say that the grave was 6X15X120 meters on one occasion and claim that they were 12X30X50 meters on another. Neither do I claim that there were a total of five graves on one occasion and eleven on anther. Neither do I claim that cremation is an exothermic process. I wouldn't say that a building/room that lacked ventilation was hermetically sealed. I would say it was "stuffy" or needed to have a window opened. Your claim that I speak the same way as the Treblinka witnesses is bullsh!t. You exaggerate, forget and make mistakes. So, why do you think the witness would not do the same? The Nazi, Gley who said that once the pyre was set alight with wood, the corpses burned with no need for more fuel, which is what would happen when exposed to up to 1000 degrees. I don't know who said anything about noses turning blue. All the Nazis who worked as part of AR at the AR camps told the truth. No, I just started to do his challenge and then gave up. |
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Post by Turnagain on Jul 29, 2022 15:52:20 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Of course I have. Now quote me where I've exaggerated or made mistakes about the holyhoax. I am forgetful but quote me being forgetful about my claims about the holyhoax. Be specific, quotes only. Explain why they are exaggerations or mistakes.
Gley said that initially wood was placed under the grate. He also said that later on only cadavers were used as fuel to cremate the cadavers. That was for a grate placed on rocks with 200 cadavers to be cremated. Sergeant Schluch was the German who said that the noses of the Jews turned blue from CO poisoning.
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