Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 11, 2022 10:39:12 GMT
Uh-huh, the witnesses just "mis-estimated" the size of the graves. I shouldn't take what the witnesses say "literally". Yes. If you were asked to estimate the size of something, that you last saw decades ago, you would not get its dimensions precisely. Yes, you are not as bright as you think you are, hence the childish, stupid comment about pressure issues not applying. Of course they do, and the Germans knew a hinged vent would solve pressure issues. They also worked out the minimum amount of wood needed to get decomposed corpses to burn, which is not surprising, since they were clever than you are. Yes you do, hence, despite both Blake and myself explaining to you that a hermetically sealed chamber cannot have gas pumped into it, so obviously the witnesses did not mean the entire chamber was a hermetic seal, you don't understand. You are flexible, filling the gaps in our knowledge, claiming a specific type of excavator was used, when no witness said it was and your remarkable claim that the Nazis could not dig big pits in a camp next to a quarry!!! Sorry, but just because you are not clever enough to work out how gas chambers would function with hermetic seals around the doors, does not mean no one can. Your arrogance is your downfall. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on May 11, 2022 11:13:30 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Wiernik wrote "A Year in Treblinka" in 1944 while the war was still ongoing. Rajchman wrote "The Last Jew of Treblinka" in 1945. "Decades ago" my arse.
Of course Nessie then moves smoothly on to "WHAT IF" the Germans built vents into the gas/vacuum chambers. Of course those same Germans knew how to cremate cadavers by the thousands with nothing more than twigs, brush, etc. At Treblinka the cremation process became exothermic. Set them alight with some kindling and let them cremate themselves. To this day the eeevul Narzis have kept that process a secret.
Yep, don't pay any attention to that trigonometry. It's just a bunch of squiggles that don't mean nuthin'.
Of course I'm not clever enough to understand that what the eyewitnesses swore to was just a guide and wasn't meant to be taken literally. I don't consider the "mistakes", the "exaggerations", the "hyperbole", the "emotive language" the "coulda woulda" and of course the ever present "what ifs" in judging what the witnesses "actually meant". Well, what they "actually meant" in holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 11, 2022 11:36:04 GMT
Nessie wrote: Wiernik wrote "A Year in Treblinka" in 1944 while the war was still ongoing. Rajchman wrote "The Last Jew of Treblinka" in 1945. "Decades ago" my arse. If you were asked to estimate the size of something that you last saw more than 2 years previously, you would not get its size precise, to the meter. There is no "what if" since there is the document recording the fitting of vents to gas vans. Your "what if" the Germans were too stupid to understand engineer round pressure issues is not believable. The Nazis worked out the most efficient method, we even know the name of the Nazi who worked it out, Herbert Floss. The process is not a secret, it is a similar process that everyone with a BBQ uses. Keep the wood separate from what is above the grill, the wood burns to embers, which is the hottest a fire will go to and that heat of up to 1000 degrees is enough to dry and set bodies on fire, with the bodies fat content acting as fuel. The cremations were not complete to ash, but that did not matter, it was enough to do the job the Nazis wanted, of preventing body counts. You base your calculations on two models of the camp, one made by someone who was not there and another by someone who did not build his model to scale. You weasel dodge that TII had a quarry next to it!!!!!! Your very literal interpretation of witness descriptions is wrong, as are your "what ifs". You claimed the building would structurally fail!!!! You actually argued that, when it is obvious the engine would stall long before that happened. You are ignoring that Blake and I explained to you that the chambers cannot have been hermetically sealed as you think, since gas was pumped in. Sorry, but you are not as clever as you think you are. That is why no one else bangs on about draglines and pressure, because they all know your arguments are flawed. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on May 11, 2022 12:10:59 GMT
Nessie wrote:
I wouldn't miss it by 25 meters or more as both Wiernik and Rajchman did. That excuse is horse frocky. Then we have your claim that Wiernik and Rajchman wrote their books decades after the war. What happened to that little clanger, Nessie?
That comes from the dubious "confession" of a German at Chelmno. It has nothing to do with the gas/vacuum chambers at Treblinka. Your "what if" the Germans fitted vents to the gas/vacuum chambers at Treblinka doesn't fly.
I base my calculations on the statements made by the eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen the mass graves. More bullsh!t from Nessie.
You and Blake don't "bang on" about pressure and draglines because you're both too stupid to be able to understand some basic trigonometry and Boyle's law.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on May 11, 2022 15:30:15 GMT
1 - Filip Mueller? 2 - Nope. Jews had an interest, nazis were under pressure. 3 - or down to imperfect knowledge due to little actual experience. 4 - as above 5 - Nazis were never without pressure in various ways, only a few were brave. Which is logical, most people lie either to save their skin or to advance their ethic , or their 'side's' interest and only a few are shooting straight. Nessie. Do you feel that I have answered these points straightforwardly and in good faith with your wishes and the aims of this board? If not, I will gladly change my answers to help fit with the discussion you wish to have. No, you have answered the points well and explained your doubts. So, how do we decide who is correct?
The answer is from the other evidence. It is because of the other evidence, that is independent of the witnesses, that I believe the witnesses are generally being truthful, despite some credibility issues.
Yes, thank you. The other evidence actually supports the benign theory. For example, the fact that cremation processes did occur which witnesses do refer to does not mean anyone was murdered there. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on May 11, 2022 15:37:14 GMT
Nessie wrote: Wiernik wrote "A Year in Treblinka" in 1944 while the war was still ongoing. Rajchman wrote "The Last Jew of Treblinka" in 1945. "Decades ago" my arse. If you were asked to estimate the size of something that you last saw more than 2 years previously, you would not get its size precise, to the meter. There is no "what if" since there is the document recording the fitting of vents to gas vans. Your "what if" the Germans were too stupid to understand engineer round pressure issues is not believable. The Nazis worked out the most efficient method, we even know the name of the Nazi who worked it out, Herbert Floss. The process is not a secret, it is a similar process that everyone with a BBQ uses. Keep the wood separate from what is above the grill, the wood burns to embers, which is the hottest a fire will go to and that heat of up to 1000 degrees is enough to dry and set bodies on fire, with the bodies fat content acting as fuel. The cremations were not complete to ash, but that did not matter, it was enough to do the job the Nazis wanted, of preventing body counts. You base your calculations on two models of the camp, one made by someone who was not there and another by someone who did not build his model to scale. You weasel dodge that TII had a quarry next to it!!!!!! Your very literal interpretation of witness descriptions is wrong, as are your "what ifs". You claimed the building would structurally fail!!!! You actually argued that, when it is obvious the engine would stall long before that happened. You are ignoring that Blake and I explained to you that the chambers cannot have been hermetically sealed as you think, since gas was pumped in. Sorry, but you are not as clever as you think you are. That is why no one else bangs on about draglines and pressure, because they all know your arguments are flawed. Ridiculous. These were healthy intelligent, though corrupt men, in the prime of life, they would get the dimensions mostly correct. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 11, 2022 16:22:28 GMT
Nessie wrote: I wouldn't miss it by 25 meters or more as both Wiernik and Rajchman did. That excuse is horse frocky. It is the length of the pits that the witnesses are the most out from what was found by geophysics, which is easily explained by the memorial preventing the total lengths from being measured. I did not say they wrote their books decades later. I did say that witnesses cannot be expected to get precise sizes accurately when they recall events from decades previously, which applies to their court testimony. No it comes from a document about the gas vans and your what if the Germans who ran the gas vans worked out how to fit a simple vent, but the Germans who ran the AR camp gas chambers could not work that out and could not get the chambers to work, is idiotic. You have referenced the models. You base your claims on witness estimations you claim are wrong!!!! The ex from the pits found by geophysics would be able to be stockpiled next to the pits. No, you are weasel dodging that we both explained that when a witness said a chamber was hermetically sealed, they cannot have meant it was totally sealed, or else how did the gas get in? A chamber that was a hermetic seal would not let gas in. You dodge that. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 11, 2022 16:25:02 GMT
No, you have answered the points well and explained your doubts. So, how do we decide who is correct?
The answer is from the other evidence. It is because of the other evidence, that is independent of the witnesses, that I believe the witnesses are generally being truthful, despite some credibility issues.
Yes, thank you. The other evidence actually supports the benign theory. For example, the fact that cremation processes did occur which witnesses do refer to does not mean anyone was murdered there. How about you quote a witness and explain how they are credible and how they evidence a benign process at the AR camps. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on May 11, 2022 20:27:50 GMT
Yes, thank you. The other evidence actually supports the benign theory. For example, the fact that cremation processes did occur which witnesses do refer to does not mean anyone was murdered there. How about you quote a witness and explain how they are credible and how they evidence a benign process at the AR camps. Filip Mueller is a self described witness. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 12, 2022 8:56:30 GMT
How about you quote a witness and explain how they are credible and how they evidence a benign process at the AR camps. Filip Mueller is a self described witness. You suggested him for another thread, so let's stick to one thread on his testimony. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on May 12, 2022 12:15:17 GMT
Filip Mueller is a self described witness. You suggested him for another thread, so let's stick to one thread on his testimony. Yes, he's a good example. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on May 12, 2022 13:27:32 GMT
Nessie wrote:
None of the pits supposedly found by CS-C even remotely resemble the mass graves described by Wiernik, Rajchman or Rosenberg. None are rectangular. None are 15, 25, 30 meter wide or even wider. Rajchman doesn't give dimensions for his "larger" graves.
Uh-huh, even when they had their own books to refresh their memories they couldn't be expected to recall events accurately. Nessie tries for an absurd excuse and fails miserably. I especially enjoyed Wiernik's fairy tale about the German woman and her two boys being put to death rather than let her go with the knowledge of the super secret death camp built deep in the woods of Poland. What kind of absurd excuse are you going to come up with for that fantasy by Wiernik?
I referenced the models to show that both Wiernik and Laponder showed single cone stockpiles. The ex from CS-C's 17X26X4 meter pit COULD NOT have been stockpiled in one single cone stockpile. From both calculations and from photos it's plain that the larger M&H mB could have built a stockpile no larger than 36 cubic meters of earth per meter of stockpile and that's a stretch. What can't you understand about that? Why can't you understand that a pit 16 meters wide and 4 meters deep will produce 64 cubic meters of ex per meter of pit? The M&H mB would have had to build a stockpile on each side of the pit and that's at only 4 meters deep. Are you completely devoid of the ability to perform even the mathematical function of multiplication?
Nessie then goes on with his spurious definition of a hermetically sealed container. A propane bottle that is hermetically sealed can't be filled with propane. Neither can oxygen, acetylene or any other gas containers.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 12, 2022 13:47:41 GMT
Nessie wrote: None of the pits supposedly found by CS-C even remotely resemble the mass graves described by Wiernik, Rajchman or Rosenberg. None are rectangular. None are 15, 25, 30 meter wide or even wider. Rajchman doesn't give dimensions for his "larger" graves. If a grave is 26m long and 17m wide, it is a rectangle. The graves are described as rectilinear in C S-C report, so they have straight sides. I don't know why the images of the graves overlayed on the maps used by C S-C appear irregular blobs, since the descriptions are of more regular sided pits. Since the graves were dug into the grave robbers used explosives, it is probably a combination of both, with straight and uneven edges. www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363People's memories fade, you are just ignorant of witness evidence. You must be the only person who thinks someone will see a pit, know exactly how big it is by looking at it and be able to remember the precise dimensions years, if not decades later. Wiernik did not put the grave sizes in his book, so how did he refresh his memory? Only you think that they would let someone go, who had seen what was happening at TII, to return to Germany and tell others what they had seen. That just means the models are not accurate, which we know any way, especially Wiernik's which is not built to scale. Which means you are wrong to take witness descriptions literally, as if the chambers were sealed like a gas bottle. They were never sealed like that, since they had pipes to pump in the gas. When a door with a hermetic seal is closed, saying that chamber is now hermetically sealed does not mean it is not completely air tight and nothing can get in or out. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on May 12, 2022 18:28:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: None of the pits supposedly found by CS-C even remotely resemble the mass graves described by Wiernik, Rajchman or Rosenberg. None are rectangular. None are 15, 25, 30 meter wide or even wider. Rajchman doesn't give dimensions for his "larger" graves. If a grave is 26m long and 17m wide, it is a rectangle. The graves are described as rectilinear in C S-C report, so they have straight sides. I don't know why the images of the graves overlayed on the maps used by C S-C appear irregular blobs, since the descriptions are of more regular sided pits. Since the graves were dug into the grave robbers used explosives, it is probably a combination of both, with straight and uneven edges. www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363People's memories fade, you are just ignorant of witness evidence. You must be the only person who thinks someone will see a pit, know exactly how big it is by looking at it and be able to remember the precise dimensions years, if not decades later. Wiernik did not put the grave sizes in his book, so how did he refresh his memory? Only you think that they would let someone go, who had seen what was happening at TII, to return to Germany and tell others what they had seen. That just means the models are not accurate, which we know any way, especially Wiernik's which is not built to scale. Which means you are wrong to take witness descriptions literally, as if the chambers were sealed like a gas bottle. They were never sealed like that, since they had pipes to pump in the gas. When a door with a hermetic seal is closed, saying that chamber is now hermetically sealed does not mean it is not completely air tight and nothing can get in or out. "People's memories fade, you are just ignorant of witness evidence. You must be the only person who thinks someone will see a pit, know exactly how big it is by looking at it and be able to remember the precise dimensions years, if not decades later. Wiernik did not put the grave sizes in his book, so how did he refresh his memory? Only you think that they would let someone go, who had seen what was happening at TII, to return to Germany and tell others what they had seen." AR camps were in no way secret. The guarding Ukrainian troops mingled with locals frequently. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 29, 2022 9:45:18 GMT
Nazgul, this is the thread about how to accurately assess witness truthfulness. Try to keep up.
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