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Post by Turnagain on Apr 16, 2022 22:41:34 GMT
been-there, you're trying to have a rational discussion with a nutzoid. It ain't gonna' work.
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Post by Sandhurst on Apr 17, 2022 6:48:57 GMT
been-there, you're trying to have a rational discussion with a nutzoid. It ain't gonna' work. It is only fun abusing "flipper", leave the dip stick alone. |
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Post by Turnagain on Apr 17, 2022 7:15:35 GMT
Venator wrote:
Gotta' get your giggles where you find 'em.
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Post by NorrisCrippen on Apr 17, 2022 8:41:08 GMT
1) Putin's paranoia may be justification for an illegal invasion in your fantasy world, but not in the real one. 2) Ukraine has the right to ask anyone they like to train their military. It has nothing to do with Putin. Oh no, not the heinous crime of 'pointing' soldiers to face a threat !!!!! I mean, no other country indulges in such unsavoury activity, do they?   3) Nato is a defensive organisation. To defend democracy from tyranny and oppression, from the likes of Russia and China. Such defensive action is NOT justification for the illegal invasion of another sovereign country, and nor is it justification for the murder, rape, torture of thousands of innocent people. But maybe you disagree. 1) Note your inclusion of deceptive words such as 'desire' and 'courting' when the reality is that Ukraine has not been allowed to join Nato. Simple. 2) Ditto 3) Again, Nato actions are defensive and Ukraine will not be joining, this makes a mockery of yours and Putin's rationale . So if you think the above lame and laughable issues are valid justifications for an invasion of another country, then basically you've set the bar so f******g low for future conflict that you would basically have no issues with any country invading who the hell they like ! All that's required is accusations of 'desire' and 'courting' , mixed with a little paranoia and a determination to partake in a little bit of land grabbing. Wow, the mind boggles at the gross stupidity that some people display, it really does.  |
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𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸
🕵️
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎
Posts: 1,458 
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on Apr 17, 2022 8:45:15 GMT
Wow, the mind boggles at the gross stupidity that some people display, it really does I am sure we all concur Itzig. |
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Post by been_there on Apr 17, 2022 8:59:47 GMT
3) Nato is a defensive organisation. To defend democracy from tyranny and oppression, from the likes of Russia and China. Such defensive action is NOT justification for the illegal invasion of another sovereign country... Whatever. If NATO was really ”defensive” why didn’t they let Russia join when Putin suggested that to Bill Clinton? The reality is that the USA have been using Ukraine as a proxy for at least 8 years. Watch Adam Schiff from 13:43 if you doubt it. Mr. Schiff TWO YEARS AGO, is seen admitting that the US arms Ukraine to advance American interests in the region and beyond. He also admitted that the US regarded themselves at war with Russia and for YEARS have been using Ukrainians to fight that war: ——— ”...the military aid [to Ukraine] was for such essentials as sniper rifles, rocket propelled grenade launchers, radar night vision goggles, and other vital support for the war effort. Most critically, the military aid that we provide Ukraine helps to protect and advance American national security interests in the region and beyond. ...we have tens of thousands of troops stationed there. Moreover, as one witness put it ...the United States aids Ukraine and her people so that we can fight Russia over there and we don’t have to fight Russia here.” ________ Admitted by Adam Schiff on Day 2 of the Impeachment Trial of Trump on January 22nd, 2020. |
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Post by Ulios on Apr 17, 2022 10:01:28 GMT
Putin is putting on quite a pissing contest. He has some intellectual issues with the status of the Ukraine and threatened to go nuclear. He is a politician who is supposed to put the interests of his people first, not let them be the first to feel the full blast of a nuclear armageddon; after this there would be no Moscow let alone a Kremlin. There would be no more Russian goodnights, no more За здоровье as the language dies with the decaying muons.  |
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Post by been_there on Apr 17, 2022 11:26:16 GMT
Putin is putting on quite a pissing contest. He has some intellectual issues with the status of the Ukraine and threatened to go nuclear. He is a politician who is supposed to put the interests of his people first, not let them be the first to feel the full blast of a nuclear armageddon; after this there would be no Moscow let alone a Kremlin. There would be no more Russian goodnights, no more За здоровье as the language dies with the decaying muons. There would have been no sovereign Russia if he had not done this. Nor any security for Russian people. Just as there is no genuine sovereign Iraq. Nor any security for Iraqi people. Nor any genuine sovereign Libya. Nor any security for Libyan people. Nor any genuine sovereign Afghanistan. Nor any security for Afghan people. Similarly with countries ruled by puppet-regimes like Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, etc. Actually it is not that different in France, Germany, UK, America. Germany still has US military bases! Germany locks up innocent, decent, upright citizens like Ursula Haverbeck to pander to the wishes of an effectively occupying foreign power. Why else would Germany persecute, humiliate and imprison decent, upright, law-abiding citizens in their nineties and even hundreds? People like Oskar Gröning, Bruno Dey, And many others. abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/germany-100-year-nazi-camp-guard-trial-80449899. Yet no-one is pursued into their antiquity for mass-murdering innocent, civilian non-combatants at Dresden, Tokyo, Nagazaki, Hiroshima, etc. Britain can’t have fair, transparent democratic elections. As witnessed by the smear campaign and paid-for treason at the last two elections by all the political parties and the MSM. It locks up and psychologically tortures innocent journalists like Julian Assange. Neither can USA have fair, transparent, genuinely democratic elections. 😉 It locks up and persecutes whistleblowers like Manning, Kiriakou, etc. Canada can not even have peaceful, legal protests any more! People can’t even choose whether to have experimental ’vaccines’ injected into themselves and their children! The countries who want to choose their own governments and decide their own futures get demonised, ostracised, sanctioned. Look at Cuba and North Korea. And in the end such countries get infiltrated by bankers, NGOs, spies, fifth columnists and agent provocateurs. Their scientists, generals and politicians are killed, assassinated or die conveniently in new ’epidemics’. Look at Syria and Iran. They have mysterious catastrophic explosions. Look at Lebanon. Anyway... apparently Putin has an 80% approval rating amongst the Russian populace. It apparently was much lower in February and early March. That was because of the western psy-ops and propaganda. But the longer it goes on the more everyone sides with their own people PLUS the more xenophobic everyone involved becomes. That is the nature of warfare. |
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Post by Ulios on Apr 17, 2022 11:34:38 GMT
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Post by NorrisCrippen on Apr 17, 2022 16:12:46 GMT
. If NATO was really ”defensive” why didn’t they let Russia join when Putin suggested that to Bill Clinton? Russia didn't apply to join Nato. But even if it did why would it allow such a country to join when one of Nato's aims is to prevent the expansion/influence of Communist aggression and corrupt non-democratic dictatorships? You mean since Russia illegally invaded Crimea and threatened the democracy/stability of both a Nato ally and democratic Europe? Russia has been using the pro-Russian separatists in a proxy war against Ukraine, but you don't appear to have any issues with that. The words of a witness I see, not Schiff himself. It's no secret Nato send military help to Ukraine, in order to help defend against the aggressor , Putin. What about the equipment Russian sends to the separatists ? You know, the sort of equipment that was responsible for downing the Malaysian aeroplane killing 200+ innocent people??? |
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Post by been_there on Apr 18, 2022 16:46:41 GMT
Gonzalo Lira a Chilean blogger from Kharkiv has disappeared
and his life is feared to be in danger from Ukraine’s Secret Police.George Galloway has made an appeal for disappeared Ukrainian/Chilean blogger Gonzalo Lira after he sent Galloway the list of names below of 'disappeared' journalists in Ukraine — some of whom are feared to have been murdered by Ukraine's Secret Police.  A few days ago I watched a video interview by Zuby with Gonzalo, a Chilean blogger living in Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second biggest city, describing conditions there and pouring scorn on the mainstream media’s narrative about how the Russians are war criminals. In it he expressed his fear that he, like other bloggers, could disappear and said that the Ukrainian authorities were trying to locate him to silence him. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ...You will have heard of the Russian law which imposes up to 15 years in prison for ‘fake’ information about the war. The mass media won’t let you forget Putin’s repression. But have you heard of the Ukrainian blogger Gleb Lyashenko who has been gaoled and is facing 15 years in prison? No? That’s strange. I guess that the BBC and Guardian didn’t have room in between all their anti-Russian stories! The Morning Star reported that the Galician District Court in Lviv jailed Gleb Lyashenko for 60 days pending trial for blaming Ukrainian political decisions for the Russian attack. “For eight years Russia has been asking and even begging Ukraine to change its course. Ukraine has refused for eight years. And here is the result,” he wrote. Gleb was referring to the Minsk agreement signed between Russia and Ukraine, which aimed to end conflict in the eastern Donbass region which erupted in 2014. Ukrainian security forces accused Mr Lyashenko of being a “traitor who supported the criminal actions of the aggressor country.” .. .. .. .. .. .. The Morning Star reported that: The charges of treason were brought after President Volodomyr Zelensky banned all private TV stations, merging them into one state-controlled TV channel amid a broader crackdown on media. He has been widely criticised for banning 11 left-wing and progressive parties. Purges of the Ukrainian left have continued, with priests, communists and human rights defenders disappearing in a mirror image of Russia’s harsh crackdown on peace activists and critics of the war. The fate of trade union leader Yuriy Bobchenko remains unknown nearly two weeks after he was abducted from his home in the east Ukrainian city of Krivoy Rog. He is chair of the Trade Union of Metallurgists and Miners of Ukraine, an affiliate of global labour federation IndustriALL, at the city’s ArcelorMittal mine. azvsas.blogspot.com/2022/04/gonzalo-lira-chilean-blogger-from.html
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Post by been_there on Apr 20, 2022 6:53:43 GMT
Here is more on the disappearance of a journalist/blogger in Ukraine, presumed killed or kidnapped by UKRAINIAN FORCES!!!!
The report mentions other western journalists being killed and injured by Ukrainian forces. I tried to confirm that it was Ukranian forces who were responsible, but despite there being widespread reporting of Benjamin Hall’s serious injuries and the deaths of two colleagues, I could find no western reporting that explained WHO had caused them.
That omission seems to confirm that it IS Ukrainian forces shooting and killing civilians. As if it had been Russian forces, we can be sure that detail would be screamed in the headlines.
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Post by Charles Traynor on Apr 22, 2022 15:50:28 GMT
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Post by Ulios on Apr 29, 2022 20:46:37 GMT
It appears there is a Russian Mi-8 helicopter for sale near Kyiv, Ukraine. Going cheap, though modest repairs may be needed, an amateur aviation mechanics dream. |
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Post by been_there on May 3, 2022 8:07:00 GMT
Ask [your Ukraine-flag-waving friends] and you’ll be lucky to find even one who’s ever heard of Minsk II. But ask those same [people] how the Ukraine war started, and you’ll likely get ‘Russian President Putin woke up one day and decided to re-establish the Soviet empire, starting with Ukraine’.
That is because our governments and [their] slavishly loyal media have created a false narrative for maximum propaganda to support pouring billions in weaponry into the Ukraine war zone, ensuring that death and destruction will proceed endlessly.
Minsk II was the 2015 agreement hammered out by Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany to end the civil war in Ukraine between the pro west, ultra nationalist government and the pro Russian Ukrainians in the eastern Donbas provinces of Lugansk and Donetsk.
Why a civil war in Ukraine? Historically, Ukraine was cobbled together first by the Russian Empire, then the Soviet Union over 4 centuries, containing disparate peoples. The main ones were the Ukrainian speaking people in the north and west, and the Russian speaking in the east and south.
Their relationship was always toxic, but under Soviet rule relative peace prevailed.
Once freed from Soviet rule in 1999, the tension between the two disparate groups resurfaced. Fifteen years on the U.S. essentially blew up whatever chance for peaceful resolution by aiding a coup which violently removed Russian leaning President Yanukovych, replacing him with an ultra nationalist government under Petro Poroshenko.
Thus began the civil war in the Donbas that has killed over 14,000 Ukrainians in Kiev’s effort to subjugate and marginalize the hated Russian leaning Ukrainians. And leading the carnage for the past 3 years is current president Volodymyr Zelensky.
...Ukraine had an off ramp from civil war early on in the form of the Minsk and then the Minsk II agreements in 2014 and 2015. The latter called for autonomy for the breakaway provinces Donetsk and Lugansk, amnesty to the combatants and representation in the Ukraine government.
But goaded by the U.S. and the ultra nationalists with the real power, both post coup presidents Poroshenko and Zelensky opted to continue the civil war to both retake the breakaway provinces and recapture the Crimea, seized by Russia after the 2014 coup threatened their naval base at Sebastopol in the Crimea.
In the months leading up to Russia’s [invasion], Ukraine — with the help of weaponry and training by Uncle Sam — dramatically increased its criminal shelling of the Donbas, even massing a hundred thousand troops for a possible invasion predicted for March.
Did that, and the threat of NATO’s encroachment in Ukraine up to Russia’s borders make Russia’s invasion legal...? Of course not. But expecting Russia would sit back and do nothing made their invasion virtually inevitable.
On February 24, that inevitability occurred, costing thousands of senseless deaths, putting the world in danger of worldwide recession, millions of poor worldwide facing starvation from food shortages and worst of all….nuclear war.
Millions of words have been spilled by our government and our media framing this war as the madman in the Kremlin and his dreams of a reconstituted Soviet empire. But they could do better with just two words that Ukraine and U.S. refused to honor and implement: Minsk II.
~~ by WALT ZLOTOW
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