Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 25, 2022 9:56:10 GMT
The Mogilev ghetto and area as reported by the Einsatzgruppen at the end of October 1941; www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/mogilev.html"Mogilev can be considered practically free of Jews after the last operations. The area of the ghetto built in Mogilev by Einsatzkommando 8 could, for the main part, be returned to the city administration. The few remaining Jews are accommodated in a forced labor camp and are ready to be used as skilled artisans."
The camps and ghettos of Belarus were short lived and many well gone even by the end of 1941.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 25, 2022 10:26:22 GMT
instead of asking baseless questions, please assist by putting some acumen into the issue. I think it was mentioned this was work in progress by Nazgul. It is not Belarus Ostland that is the issue if you read the information, it is Eastern Belarus and the Russian territory which is of interest; these were not territories of the Reich and so the Korherr statistics as you mentioned do not apply. This is indeed the Russian East. White Russian east provinces. OK, so what Nazi camps were there and what was the Jewish population of those camps at the end of 1943?
That is not a baseless question, unless you can prove the Nazis had been transporting millions not gassed to such camps, you have no case.
See first post |
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Post by Ulios on Mar 25, 2022 10:33:37 GMT
That is not a baseless question, unless you can prove the Nazis had been transporting millions not gassed to such camps, you have no case. I do not think Nazgul has stated he has a case; he has mentioned the past reality of hundreds of judenlagers within the Eastern part of Belarus outside the territory, otherwise known as East White Russia aka Russian East. Unless the Germans are totally psychotic on too much meth which they invented, as they did "Fanta" they did not build camps to be empty. It was clearly mentioned the the JUST that Jews from the Reich and other parts of Europe were sent to Belarus; it was not specified if this was West or Eastern Belarus. As Korherr mentioned the "Russian East" it can be assumed the camps were in the Eastern Belarus and Soviet occupied territory for that brief period. The Russian East is the White Russian East aka Eastern Belarus. It is this area that is not the focus of deep attention, not the mindless waffling on gassed people; if jews were gassed as claimed then so be it, there were also a huge number of jews in the Russian East. |
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Mar 25, 2022 10:39:18 GMT
unless you can prove the Nazis had been transporting millions not gassed to such camps, you have no case. V Makei and the US dept of Justice provided evidence that Jews were transported from Europe to these camps; this was mentioned though clearly not cognitized by yourself. This is an attempt to divert the topic of relocated jews to Belarus back to the AR camps for which there is no connection. |
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Mar 25, 2022 11:02:18 GMT
Korherr reported the Jewish population of the eastern territories dropped from 790,000 in 1939 to 233,210 at the end of 1942. If the camps were being filled, that population would go up, not down. Eastern Belarus and Occupied Russia are not part of the "eastern territories" but merely occupied land' ; Byelarus means white Russian, so the eastern part of this country is the Russian East. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 25, 2022 14:51:30 GMT
OK, so what Nazi camps were there and what was the Jewish population of those camps at the end of 1943?
That is not a baseless question, unless you can prove the Nazis had been transporting millions not gassed to such camps, you have no case.
See first post The first post states;
"An estimated 600,000-800,000 Jews, including those deported from eastern Poland and other European countries, were killed in the Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic between July 1941 and October 1943 in more than 500 ghettos, concentration camps, and mass killing sites."
They were killed, not resettled and by the end of 1943, there is no evidence of large Jewish populations in Belarus.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 25, 2022 14:53:48 GMT
Korherr reported the Jewish population of the eastern territories dropped from 790,000 in 1939 to 233,210 at the end of 1942. If the camps were being filled, that population would go up, not down. Eastern Belarus and Occupied Russia are not part of the "eastern territories" but merely occupied land' ; Byelarus means white Russian, so the eastern part of this country is the Russian East. OK, so let me see evidence of camps packed full of Jews in that location. Name one camp and its population at the end of 1943. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 25, 2022 15:50:27 GMT
The first post states;
"An estimated 600,000-800,000 Jews, including those deported from eastern Poland and other European countries, were killed in the Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic between July 1941 and October 1943 in more than 500 ghettos, concentration camps, and mass killing sites."
They were killed, not resettled and by the end of 1943, there is no evidence of large Jewish populations in Belarus.
Nope, this is the first post; rodoh.info/post/5159 |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 25, 2022 15:51:28 GMT
Eastern Belarus and Occupied Russia are not part of the "eastern territories" but merely occupied land' ; Byelarus means white Russian, so the eastern part of this country is the Russian East. OK, so let me see evidence of camps packed full of Jews in that location. Name one camp and its population at the end of 1943. See this post; rodoh.info/post/5417 |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 25, 2022 15:59:47 GMT
The first post states;
"An estimated 600,000-800,000 Jews, including those deported from eastern Poland and other European countries, were killed in the Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic between July 1941 and October 1943 in more than 500 ghettos, concentration camps, and mass killing sites."
They were killed, not resettled and by the end of 1943, there is no evidence of large Jewish populations in Belarus.
Nope, this is the first post; rodoh.info/post/5159Yes and in that post is the quote;
"An estimated 600,000-800,000 Jews, including those deported from eastern Poland and other European countries, were killed in the Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic between July 1941 and October 1943 in more than 500 ghettos, concentration camps, and mass killing sites."
That post admits there were mass killings in Belarus 1941-3, and that Jews were not being resettled there. They were being killed.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 25, 2022 16:00:39 GMT
OK, so let me see evidence of camps packed full of Jews in that location. Name one camp and its population at the end of 1943. See this post; rodoh.info/post/5417That post does not name a camp and show its population at the end of 1943. |
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Mar 25, 2022 19:09:58 GMT
In 1939 the Germans occupied Belarus then known as Byelorussia SSR for 3 years; prior to the war, the country was much smaller. It expanded considerably upon Soviet annexation and divided into two spheres: east and west. Ostland incorporated only the Western part of the country; the horrors that Nessie desribed and the losses, if true are only ascribed to that area not the East. However, the East has an interesting history. The museum on Nazi activity in the centre of Berlin names the residents of Eastern Belarus โRussiansโ. This is the "Russian East" of ill fame where the jews were allegedly sent to as described by Korherr the statistician. There were a plethora of camps further East actually in Soviet occupied territory as well. There is evidence that around 1.9 million Belarusians, or 20 per cent of the pre-war population of the land, perished in the war. Of course the Jews are not interested in the other inhabitants who perished, only their own kind.  There were massacres and not all jewish, such as Khatyn village. As a consequence of Belarusian partisansโ ambush killing German Olympic shot putter Hans Woellke, Nazi soldiers and their collaborators converged on the village and enacted total warfare on its civilian inhabitants. This was an individual war crime similar to the My lie massacre in vietname by US troops. The non partisans were German friendly which is why this site was chosen for camps. They did not wish to rejoin the Stalinist terror that had been inflicted upon them. . There is quite a schism between the official propaganda and the reality, which is why historians often avoid Eastern Belarus; the area and inhabitants are enigmatic. It is expected that Nessie would ask for the names of the camps in the area and the people who went etc. The evidence is there that these camps existed, Eastern Belarus and Russia. Knowledge of these camps is work in progress. I suggest that Nessie look at the Red Dots on the map above. These are just the ghettos and judenlagers. The horrors of Western Belarus do not apply in the Russian East where the inhabitants (not partisans) were pro German. |
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