Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 31, 2022 9:48:37 GMT
Logic. If lots of people arrive and few people leave, then something happened to the rest of the people inside those places. The evidence is that something was that they were gassed, which explains why they did not leave.
Unless of course, the gassing was unlikely or impossible, not designed for etc, then some other explanation is more likely. But you know this already, are you just trying to brow beat us down by saying the same argument over and over again? Building gas chambers, digging big pits and cremating on pyres using grates are all physically possible for the Nazis to have done.
Your only objection is down to how you interpret the way some witnesses describe the gas chambers, pits and pyres. It does not matter that someone describes something that is physically possible in a way that makes it appear impossible. That just means the witness was not very good at describing what he saw.
Logic states that since there is no evidence of mass departures, those people were gassed as evidenced.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 31, 2022 11:21:08 GMT
Building gas chambers, digging big pits and cremating on pyres using grates are all physically possible for the Nazis to have done. Nope. Not evidenced. Thats not the only objection and you know that. Logic doesnt state that. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 31, 2022 11:37:24 GMT
Who is right and whether or not the evidence of gassings is correct, is solved by answering the question, where did they go?
If that question can be answered, then they were not gassed.
Revisionists know they cannot answer that question, so they obfuscate, troll and sorry to say, lie.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 31, 2022 12:11:52 GMT
Who is right and whether or not the evidence of gassings is correct, is solved by answering the question, where did they go? If that question can be answered, then they were not gassed. Revisionists know they cannot answer that question, so they obfuscate, troll and sorry to say, lie. No they just say they dont know the entirety of the answer. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 31, 2022 14:40:17 GMT
Nessie shrieks, "You lie" and continues on with his mindless claim that 30% of an unknown number of trains were used to shuttle Jews to Treblinka. Rinse and repeat.
Then Nessie goes on about "only 9,500 Jews left Treblinka alive" and the eeevul Narzies built hermetically sealed pressure vessels from bricks to gas the Jews with CO from a "seized" Soviet tank engine, buried them in graves that were impossible to dig with the M&H draglines, exhumed whole bodies with a clamshell, cremated them on a grate that required nothing but kindling to completely cremate the bodies and threw the powdered cremains back into the giant graves. Rinse and repeat...endlessly.
Never mind Nessie's endless litany of excuses for the lies of the so-called eyewitnesses. He hasn't any proof that his scenario is correct but has "conclusive evidence" that it happened. Rinse and repeat endlessly.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 31, 2022 14:55:59 GMT
Who is right and whether or not the evidence of gassings is correct, is solved by answering the question, where did they go? If that question can be answered, then they were not gassed. Revisionists know they cannot answer that question, so they obfuscate, troll and sorry to say, lie. No they just say they dont know the entirety of the answer. You cannot even evidence what happened inside the AR camps and A-B Kremas. So far, suggestions have been made that the AR camps were purely about seizing property, but that fails to take into account as to what happened to the people once their property had been taken from them. The Kremas have been variously suggested to be used for mass showering, delousing, bomb shelters and their original purpose of corpse storage. But try to get a chronology as to when all of that happened and the deniers go quiet or vague.
Then there is the total lack of evidence of regular mass transports back out of the camps, which is at odds with Nazi policy of tracking all Jews and the records of their arrival at the camps.
Then there is the total lack of evidence of millions of Jews not gassed, being accommodated anywhere by the end of 1944. If there had been no gassings, by then there would be an extra c2.5 million Jews in Nazi custody. That would require a massive system of camps and ghettos, but also by then all the ghettos had been closed and camps were being found empty or with few prisoners left.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 31, 2022 14:59:20 GMT
Nessie shrieks, "You lie" and continues on with his mindless claim that 30% of an unknown number of trains were used to shuttle Jews to Treblinka. Rinse and repeat. Then Nessie goes on about "only 9,500 Jews left Treblinka alive" and the eeevul Narzies built hermetically sealed pressure vessels from bricks to gas the Jews with CO from a "seized" Soviet tank engine, buried them in graves that were impossible to dig with the M&H draglines, exhumed whole bodies with a clamshell, cremated them on a grate that required nothing but kindling to completely cremate the bodies and threw the powdered cremains back into the giant graves. Rinse and repeat...endlessly. Never mind Nessie's endless litany of excuses for the lies of the so-called eyewitnesses. He hasn't any proof that his scenario is correct but has "conclusive evidence" that it happened. Rinse and repeat endlessly. OK, so where did they all go? TII is your favourite topic, it was open July 1942 to August 1943. We know 713,555 people had arrived by the end of 1942. Where did they all go? Show me transport and accommodation records, witnesses and the physical evidence of camps large enough to take that number of people. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 31, 2022 15:41:20 GMT
Curious how Koherr forcefully stressed that his numbers were estimates but the Hoefle telegram matched that estimated number perfectly...if you add another 5 to it.
Nessie then shrieks (again), "Where did they gooooooo?". They went somewhere since it's for damned sure they weren't killed and disposed of in the way your lie-witnesses claimed. Don't bother with your litany of excuses. We've heard them all before and don't believe them. Nobody was gassed in a hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chamber and cremated with twigs on a grate constructed of railroad rails.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 31, 2022 15:54:36 GMT
Curious how Koherr forcefully stressed that his numbers were estimates but the Hoefle telegram matched that estimated number perfectly...if you add another 5 to it. Yet again, you have lie about what someone said. Show Korherr clearly stating that every single number he used was an estimate. Facts is he made it clear a number of times in his report where a figure was calculated or estimated and every figure he gave in Part V, where he used the Hofle Telegram number, was precise, so no estimations there. "They went somewhere"....!!!! Only in la-la land can millions of people magically disappear inside 5 specific camps, with no evidence they left and that is just hand waved away as, well, they must have gone somewhere. No rational person would accept that. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 31, 2022 16:19:09 GMT
Nessie wrote:
So don't just blather on, link to Koherr's quote. I said that I was curious, not that I knew how Koherr arrived at his numbers other than by estimate.
Nobody "magically disappeared". Most likely they left on trains as did the deportees from Hunt's video. Perhaps they walked or left in carts or wagons. It's one of those unknowns. Just because you claim that they couldn't "magically disappear" then they were murdered is asinine. No credible witness claimed to have smelled the stench of burning bodies although the area would have been permeated with it if cadavers were being cremated 2-3,000 at a time.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 31, 2022 16:41:03 GMT
Nessie wrote: So don't just blather on, link to Koherr's quote. I said that I was curious, not that I knew how Koherr arrived at his numbers other than by estimate. You lied. You said "Curious how Koherr forcefully stressed that his numbers were estimates..." when you did not know that and now you are back peddling furiously. www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/korherr.htmlHe variously said "Figures up to 1939 are calculated or estimated.", "** New territorial division with East Poland, the figure is estimated *** New territorial division, the figure is calculated", "The figures represent results calculated from the origin Jewish population, the final population and the evacuations." Whenever he uses a precise figure, is it clearly not an estimate. If you stopped lying, you would get a far more accurate picture of what happened. The only person you are fooling with your lies is yourself. According to you, the vast majority of the people who arrived at TII magically disappeared. You claim they were not gassed, but then you hand wave away your inability to evidence what did happen to them inside the camp and how they left and where they went. Robert Faurisson said that when he interviewed Marian Olszuk about living near TII, he said; www.whale.to/b/treblinka2.html"Now and then, he related, a ghastly stench emanated from the camp." |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 31, 2022 16:58:10 GMT
No they just say they dont know the entirety of the answer. You cannot even evidence what happened inside the AR camps and A-B Kremas. So far, suggestions have been made that the AR camps were purely about seizing property, but that fails to take into account as to what happened to the people once their property had been taken from them. The Kremas have been variously suggested to be used for mass showering, delousing, bomb shelters and their original purpose of corpse storage. But try to get a chronology as to when all of that happened and the deniers go quiet or vague.
Then there is the total lack of evidence of regular mass transports back out of the camps, which is at odds with Nazi policy of tracking all Jews and the records of their arrival at the camps.
Then there is the total lack of evidence of millions of Jews not gassed, being accommodated anywhere by the end of 1944. If there had been no gassings, by then there would be an extra c2.5 million Jews in Nazi custody. That would require a massive system of camps and ghettos, but also by then all the ghettos had been closed and camps were being found empty or with few prisoners left.
You cannot even evidence what happened inside the AR camps and A-B Kremas. So far, suggestions have been made that the AR camps were purely about seizing property, but that fails to take into account as to what happened to the people once their property had been taken from them. The Kremas have been variously suggested to be used for mass showering, delousing, bomb shelters and their original purpose of corpse storage. But try to get a chronology as to when all of that happened and the deniers go quiet or vague. Revisionists examine the claims of murder, as well as researching what the camps really were. There's no mass showering claim for Kremas, delousing clothing and/ or workers at one point certainly. Bomb shelters too is reasonable. Corpse storage certainly, all reasonable.Then there is the total lack of evidence of regular mass transports back out of the camps, which is at odds with Nazi policy of tracking all Jews and the records of their arrival at the camps. Nazis did track alot of people but not everyone, and the lack of evidence in total for transports isnt evidence for murderThen there is the total lack of evidence of millions of Jews not gassed, being accommodated anywhere by the end of 1944. If there had been no gassings, by then there would be an extra c2.5 million Jews in Nazi custody. That would require a massive system of camps and ghettos, but also by then all the ghettos had been closed and camps were being found empty or with few prisoners left. Gassed or ungassed, there's a lack of clarity. We see that as reasonable given the conditions and the parties involved. There was a massive system of camps and ghettos, which emptied with the changing front, then the borders changed and millions of ethnic germans moved across europe too. So we stick to the hardest of evidence, which is why we're reasonable. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 31, 2022 17:10:28 GMT
You cannot even evidence what happened inside the AR camps and A-B Kremas. So far, suggestions have been made that the AR camps were purely about seizing property, but that fails to take into account as to what happened to the people once their property had been taken from them. The Kremas have been variously suggested to be used for mass showering, delousing, bomb shelters and their original purpose of corpse storage. But try to get a chronology as to when all of that happened and the deniers go quiet or vague.
Then there is the total lack of evidence of regular mass transports back out of the camps, which is at odds with Nazi policy of tracking all Jews and the records of their arrival at the camps.
Then there is the total lack of evidence of millions of Jews not gassed, being accommodated anywhere by the end of 1944. If there had been no gassings, by then there would be an extra c2.5 million Jews in Nazi custody. That would require a massive system of camps and ghettos, but also by then all the ghettos had been closed and camps were being found empty or with few prisoners left.
You cannot even evidence what happened inside the AR camps and A-B Kremas. So far, suggestions have been made that the AR camps were purely about seizing property, but that fails to take into account as to what happened to the people once their property had been taken from them. The Kremas have been variously suggested to be used for mass showering, delousing, bomb shelters and their original purpose of corpse storage. But try to get a chronology as to when all of that happened and the deniers go quiet or vague. Revisionists examine the claims of murder, as well as researching what the camps really were. There's no mass showering claim for Kremas, delousing clothing and/ or workers at one point certainly. Bomb shelters too is reasonable. Corpse storage certainly, all reasonable."There is no material or documentary evidence that unambiguously supports the gassing claim. -- The evidence put forward overwhelmingly refers to either disinfection or civil air defense, including gas protection" That the Nazis sent millions to specific camps, where those people disappeared, is circumstantial evidence to support the gassing claims. You are not being reasonable, you are demanding belief in what you cannot evidence to have happened. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 31, 2022 21:20:01 GMT
"There is no material or documentary evidence that unambiguously supports the gassing claim. -- The evidence put forward overwhelmingly refers to either disinfection or civil air defense, including gas protection" Indeed. Circumstantial is bested by direct evidence. No Im not believing Nazis gassed anyone given the claims that are made, and the corroboration with other documents that support the benign hypothesis, my view is entirely reasonable, given what we know about the nazis and the care they took with the jews and others as well as their general policy in war. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 31, 2022 22:38:02 GMT
I could say that water is wet and fire is hot and Nessie would immediately start shrieking, "You lie , you lie you liar. Quit lying, you liar".
No, I didn't say that the Jews magically disappeared. They most likely left on trains, wagons, trucks, whatever but some sort of conveyance. Some may have died either at Treblinka or on the way there and there's even a possibility that some were shot but nobody was gassed, steamed, vacuumed, buried in giant pits, exhumed whole with a clamshell, cremated on the magic Jew barbeque with some twigs and had their cremains thrown back into the huge pits.
I shall now shriek, "You lie you lying liar". Quit lying about what the holyhoax so-called eyewitnesses said they saw happen at Treblinka.
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