mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Apr 6, 2022 17:31:28 GMT
Nessie wrote: Whether I "cherry-picked" my reasons for doubting the claims of the witnesses or not is irrelevant. The fact is that I give reasons for disbelieving the claims of the witnesses. I DON'T just say it's unbelievable because I don't believe the statement to be credible as required by a fallacy of incredulity. What can't you understand about that? The fact remains that I give reasons for why I don't believe the fable of the pits and the stockpiles. I can be proven wrong but I DON'T just say that I don't believe it because it doesn't seem credible to me. What can't you understand about that. My reasons for not believing the witnesses, right or wrong, are reasonable objections to what the witnesses claim. They are NOT just a simple objection based on nothing but personal disbelief about someone's statement. A fallacy of incredulity: "For no given reason I just don't believe it." Statement: "I circumnavigated solo in a 40 foot long sailboat". Fallacy of incredulity reply: "I don't believe you". Reasons for disbelief: You're only 12 years old. You live in an orphanage in Iowa so how did you finance a 40 foot blue water sailing yacht? There's no record of you even going to the beach let alone circumnavigating and so on. Just saying "I don't believe that" is a logical fallacy of incredulity. Reasonable objections to the claim aren't a fallacy of incredulity. Nessie obviously can't understand that and simply shrieks, "Fallacy of incredulity" when given reasons for not believing the witnesses. A very nice exposition of the trick Nessie has been trying to pull here.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Apr 7, 2022 4:09:50 GMT
A very nice exposition of the trick Nessie has been trying to pull here. Little boy before his bat mitzvah says he saw an elephant stand on his trunk, legs high in the air, and elephant doing a "trunk stand". The Rabbi says that this is impossible, as do the other members of the synagogue. Nessie is an observer amongst the worshippers and says: " Just because you cannot work out how it was done from the way the witness described what he saw, does not therefore mean it did not happen."This is the mentality you are dealing with.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Apr 7, 2022 9:23:06 GMT
Nessie wrote: Whether I "cherry-picked" my reasons for doubting the claims of the witnesses or not is irrelevant. The fact is that I give reasons for disbelieving the claims of the witnesses. I DON'T just say it's unbelievable because I don't believe the statement to be credible as required by a fallacy of incredulity. What can't you understand about that? The fact remains that I give reasons for why I don't believe the fable of the pits and the stockpiles. I can be proven wrong but I DON'T just say that I don't believe it because it doesn't seem credible to me. What can't you understand about that. My reasons for not believing the witnesses, right or wrong, are reasonable objections to what the witnesses claim. They are NOT just a simple objection based on nothing but personal disbelief about someone's statement. A fallacy of incredulity: "For no given reason I just don't believe it." Statement: "I circumnavigated solo in a 40 foot long sailboat". Fallacy of incredulity reply: "I don't believe you". Reasons for disbelief: You're only 12 years old. You live in an orphanage in Iowa so how did you finance a 40 foot blue water sailing yacht? There's no record of you even going to the beach let alone circumnavigating and so on. Just saying "I don't believe that" is a logical fallacy of incredulity. Reasonable objections to the claim aren't a fallacy of incredulity. Nessie obviously can't understand that and simply shrieks, "Fallacy of incredulity" when given reasons for not believing the witnesses. You shriek that you do not rely on the fallacy of incredulity, and then you use it, for example, you are incredulous a 20 year old was one of the train drivers at Treblinka.
Your reasons for being incredulous are spurious. There is no reason why a 20 year old would be banned from driving locomotives, when it is normal during war time to use younger then normal (and older and female) labourers. You also ignore that locomotives are not normally driven by one person, so he would have been another, probably far more experienced driver. Your suggestion is that he is claiming that at 20, he solo drove trains from Poland to France and back, which is too incredible to believe, so he lied. But he did not say that, you are lying, which is something you do constantly.
You claim you do not cherry pick, but you ignore the references to the use of wood on the cremation pyres and concentrate on the references to smaller pieces of wood. Your suggestion is that the witnesses are only claiming bodies were set on fire with twigs. But that is wrong. Instead, they are saying the fire was started with smaller bits of wood, which is how fires are started, with kindling. You are again making up a dishonest version of what the witnesses said.
Your odd interpretation of the witnesses is designed to excuse your use of the argument from incredulity. If you cannot understand how that is wrong, then there is another issue you ignore.
Many witnesses, especially the Nazis, merely state gas chambers were used, there were mass graves and mass pyres. They hardly describe what they saw. So, how do you determine if they are telling the truth or not? You cannot use your argument from incredulity, because it is not incredulous that the Nazis could build gas chambers (they did it for clothes and trains), dig huge pits (they built massive defences) and cremate on pyres (you know a BBQ can be used to incinerate meat).
Now your argument has fallen apart. The Jew, whose description you find too incredible to believe is corroborated by a Nazi who is claiming something that is physically possible. What they are claiming happened is not physically impossoble to have done. It is also evidenced to have happened. Therefore you are wrong.
If a 12 year old claims to have circumnavigated the world on a yacht and there is EVIDENCE they did it, then it happened.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Apr 7, 2022 9:29:22 GMT
A very nice exposition of the trick Nessie has been trying to pull here. Little boy before his bat mitzvah says he saw an elephant stand on his trunk, legs high in the air, and elephant doing a "trunk stand". The Rabbi says that this is impossible, as do the other members of the synagogue. Nessie is an observer amongst the worshippers and says: " Just because you cannot work out how it was done from the way the witness described what he saw, does not therefore mean it did not happen."This is the mentality you are dealing with. You have gone off topic, to dodge your lack of evidence as to where they went.
That is your problem, the claim being made that you do not believe, are evidenced to have happened. You then try and make out what is being claimed is physically impossible, as if the Germans did not have the ability to build gas chambers (which they did) or to dig large pits (which they did) or mass cremate (which again, they did).
You then ignore that your claim of the Nazis mass transporting and accommodating c2.5million people supposedly not gassed, without leaving any evidence and then everyone involved, Nazi and Jew, conspiring to keep quiet about what happened is genuinely too incredible to believe. You then ignore my incredulity is justified, because it aligns with the evidence.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Apr 7, 2022 9:59:25 GMT
Nessie demonstrates his lack of comprehension of a fallacy of incredulity. He also demonstrates that he ignored my link to Quora. He also ignores the fact that thousands of Jews were transported out of Treblinka by mass transports. No records of any transports leaving Treblinka save the trains assigned to shuttle service are now in existence. Nessie claims that the train schedules showing that all of the trains excepting the trains enumerated by the witnesses in Hunt's video left empty but are located in some obscure archive and just haven't been discovered by anyone. One of Nessie's "what if" and "coulda woulda" scenarios. "What if" the train schedules are archived in some obscure location? Then they "coulda" shown that the trains left empty. "What if" and "coulda woulda" are considered valid evidence in holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Apr 7, 2022 10:49:34 GMT
Nessie demonstrates his lack of comprehension of a fallacy of incredulity. He also demonstrates that he ignored my link to Quora. He also ignores the fact that thousands of Jews were transported out of Treblinka by mass transports. No records of any transports leaving Treblinka save the trains assigned to shuttle service are now in existence. Nessie claims that the train schedules showing that all of the trains excepting the trains enumerated by the witnesses in Hunt's video left empty but are located in some obscure archive and just haven't been discovered by anyone. One of Nessie's "what if" and "coulda woulda" scenarios. "What if" the train schedules are archived in some obscure location? Then they "coulda" shown that the trains left empty. "What if" and "coulda woulda" are considered valid evidence in holyhoax la-la land. It is you who does not understand the fallacy of incredulity. You are incredulous about mass gassing, graves and pyres, based on the way Jewish witnesses describe what they saw. I am incredulous about transporting and accommodating millions in a massive conspiracy the Nazis had no reason to cooperate with, whereby all the evidence for that has been hidden or destroyed. How do you determine which incredulity is justified or not? The answer is from 1 - what was physically possible? 2 - what is evidenced to have happened. You agree that it was well within Nazi ability to gas, bury and cremate, so that is not physically impossible. Your objection is solely how the Jews described what they saw. That is why you are using the fallacy. You are claiming something possible is impossible because you do not believe it based only on descriptions. There is evidence it happened. It was not in Nazi ability and they had no reason to cooperate with secretly hiding millions of Jews, pretending they had been gassed. You suggest the supposed missing transport records is evidence of a conspiracy, but there would be no records of transports that did not happen. For most days TII was open, there are surviving records of transports, from ghettos as they were being emptied. When did the Nazis even fit in all the ghost trains you allege took away hundreds of thousands of people to unknown destinations? You are lying that I ignore thousands were transported out, my point there is that those few transports left evidence, so more regular, larger transports would also leave evidence.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Apr 8, 2022 20:38:02 GMT
Nessie demonstrates his lack of comprehension of a fallacy of incredulity. He also demonstrates that he ignored my link to Quora. He also ignores the fact that thousands of Jews were transported out of Treblinka by mass transports. No records of any transports leaving Treblinka save the trains assigned to shuttle service are now in existence. Nessie claims that the train schedules showing that all of the trains excepting the trains enumerated by the witnesses in Hunt's video left empty but are located in some obscure archive and just haven't been discovered by anyone. One of Nessie's "what if" and "coulda woulda" scenarios. "What if" the train schedules are archived in some obscure location? Then they "coulda" shown that the trains left empty. "What if" and "coulda woulda" are considered valid evidence in holyhoax la-la land. It is you who does not understand the fallacy of incredulity. You are incredulous about mass gassing, graves and pyres, based on the way Jewish witnesses describe what they saw. I am incredulous about transporting and accommodating millions in a massive conspiracy the Nazis had no reason to cooperate with, whereby all the evidence for that has been hidden or destroyed. How do you determine which incredulity is justified or not? The answer is from 1 - what was physically possible? 2 - what is evidenced to have happened. You agree that it was well within Nazi ability to gas, bury and cremate, so that is not physically impossible. Your objection is solely how the Jews described what they saw. That is why you are using the fallacy. You are claiming something possible is impossible because you do not believe it based only on descriptions. There is evidence it happened. It was not in Nazi ability and they had no reason to cooperate with secretly hiding millions of Jews, pretending they had been gassed. You suggest the supposed missing transport records is evidence of a conspiracy, but there would be no records of transports that did not happen. For most days TII was open, there are surviving records of transports, from ghettos as they were being emptied. When did the Nazis even fit in all the ghost trains you allege took away hundreds of thousands of people to unknown destinations? You are lying that I ignore thousands were transported out, my point there is that those few transports left evidence, so more regular, larger transports would also leave evidence. What evidence?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Apr 9, 2022 7:57:07 GMT
Since mrolonoz still does not know what is evidence of mass transports, there is little point in responding.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Apr 10, 2022 6:45:35 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No, I DON'T agree that the Germans built gas chambers, dug graves and cremated the cadavers as described by the alleged eyewitnesses. Nessie is back to his "what if" and "coulda woulda" senario.
Nessie's witnesses describe impossibilities. The hermetically sealed gas chamber is nonfunctional. It can't be made to work without a generous helping of "what ifs" and "coulda woulda". I object to the witnesses gas chamber for a specific reason and Nessie says that I'm just objecting from incredulity. Nessie is full of more shit than a Christmas goose.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Apr 10, 2022 8:36:10 GMT
Nessie wrote: No, I DON'T agree that the Germans built gas chambers, dug graves and cremated the cadavers as described by the alleged eyewitnesses. Nessie is back to his "what if" and "coulda woulda" senario. Nessie's witnesses describe impossibilities. The hermetically sealed gas chamber is nonfunctional. It can't be made to work without a generous helping of "what ifs" and "coulda woulda". I object to the witnesses gas chamber for a specific reason and Nessie says that I'm just objecting from incredulity. Nessie is full of more shit than a Christmas goose. You have agreed that their construction and engineering abilities were such that they could build gas chambers, bury and cremate.
You have weasel dodged their supposed ability to transport millions of people in secret, accommodate them and why they would cooperate with a gassing hoax that they would be blamed for.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Apr 14, 2022 17:29:14 GMT
Nessie wrote:
I have NOT agreed that the Germans could have gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated the ~850,000 Jews AS DESCRIBED BY THE WITNESSES. Nessie instead goes for the false analogy.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Apr 15, 2022 8:32:38 GMT
Nessie wrote: I have NOT agreed that the Germans could have gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated the ~850,000 Jews AS DESCRIBED BY THE WITNESSES. Nessie instead goes for the false analogy. I know you have not agreed, as described by the witnesses. I constantly explain to you why that argument is logically flawed.
Where did they go? Unless you can evidence and prove mass departures of hundreds of thousands of people left TII, then the evidence to prove they were gassed stands.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Apr 15, 2022 10:03:41 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie is aware that the claims of the alleged eyewitnesses are bunkum. My pointing that out is "logically flawed" because I don't accept his "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" excuses for their lies.
You have no proof that anyone was gassed (or steamed or vacuumed) buried, exhumed, cremated and reburied at Treblinka. NONE, zip, zero, nada yet here you are demanding that I prove that the deportees were transported out of Treblinka. Train schedules for outbound trains carrying passengers have disappeared but it's KNOWN that such trains did exist. Where are the train schedules, Nessie?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Apr 15, 2022 14:38:02 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie is aware that the claims of the alleged eyewitnesses are bunkum. My pointing that out is "logically flawed" because I don't accept his "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" excuses for their lies. The claims by the witnesses are corroborated by other evidence. That you do not believe the claims and you hand wave away the other evidence is argument from incredulity. What do you mean by a train schedule? Show an example of one.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Apr 15, 2022 21:28:35 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Giddoutahere with your "other evidence". There's no evidence of the graves described by the eyewitnesses actually existing. Nessie uses his "disturbed ground" and CS-C's unproven claims as "evidence". Nobody is "hand waving" away any evidence. The claim that 2-3,000 cadavers were piled onto a 1X30 meter grate constructed from concrete pylons and railroad rails to be cremated to ash as fine as cigarette ash is a ludicrous lie. What we actually have is a broad application of Nessie's, "It happened therefore it was possible" theory. IOW, all witness lies are excused.
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