Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 5, 2022 12:41:58 GMT
It's true that your claim of CS-C finding "evidence" of 2-2,500 tons of cremains or the giant mass graves is bullshit. Same for your claim of Lukaszkiewcz finding "evidence" of cremains. Suck it up, Buttercup.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 5, 2022 14:35:15 GMT
It's true that your claim of CS-C finding "evidence" of 2-2,500 tons of cremains or the giant mass graves is bullshit. Same for your claim of Lukaszkiewcz finding "evidence" of cremains. Suck it up, Buttercup. Your responses are more and more childish. The site examinations corroborate witness claims of mass graves, cremated remains being buried and the Nazi actions to prevent a body count, identify the dead and establish cause of death. You weasel dodge that the other AR camps and Chelmno are the same and are unique. No other camps were razed to the ground, planted over and left guarded. You weasel dodge that if c2.5 million had not been gassed, by the autumn of 1944, there would be a series of massive camps all over eastern Europe, full of Jews. |
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 5, 2022 15:36:31 GMT
Nessie wrote:
You weasel dodge the fact that if ~2.5 million Jews had been gassed, buried, exhumed, cremated and the cremains reburied in the alleged death camps, there would be coherent accounts of the gassing, the mass graves could be found with GPR and a reasonable means of exhumation and cremations would have been recorded. What we do have is bullshit accounts of asphyxiation in hermetically sealed chambers by steam, vacuum and gassing with captured diesel tank engines that got morphed into Soviet gasoline tank engines. Then we have bullshit accounts of mass graves up to 40 feet deep and 150 meters long. Nobody can give a reasonable explanation of how the pits were excavated or what happened to the ex. Then we have from one to four draglines exhuming whole bodies which were piled 20-25 feet high on the magic Jew barbeque where they were cremated with nothing more than twigs, brush or camp detritus with the cremains being reburied in the mass graves.
Nessie has absolutely no intelligent explanation for any of that other than to stamp his feet and shriek, "It happened, it DID happen". If asked to explain such bizarre fantasies Nessie simply mumbles about "mistakes" and "exaggerations" and how historians and police inspectors all know that eyewitnesses are full of shit and should be ignored. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 5, 2022 15:48:28 GMT
Nessie wrote: You weasel dodge the fact that if ~2.5 million Jews had been gassed, buried, exhumed, cremated and the cremains reburied in the alleged death camps, there would be coherent accounts of the gassing, Which there are, from the Nazis and you fail to take into account much of the Jewish testimony is hearsay and those who saw gassings did not know as much about the functioning of the gas chambers as the Nazis did. That is why you concentrate on the Jewish testimony and have to claim, without evidence, the Nazis were coerced. GPR has found large excavations around the memorial, for which you have no reasonable, evidenced explanation. Digging out bodies with an excavator and then cremating on pyres using rails are reasonable. You dishonestly conflate hearsay with eyewitness evidence and pretend that truthful witnesses do not make mistakes. Which are clearly overestimations. They used excavators, we just do not have any details. You are again conflating sources and cherry picking testimony. I have provided you with explanations that are reasonable, evidenced and based on what witnesses are like. You weasel dodge that it is physically impossible to transport and accommodate so many people without leaving any evidence. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 5, 2022 16:36:40 GMT
Nessie is still stamping his feet and shrieking, "It happened, it DID happen". Of course the Jews lied (made "mistakes", "exaggerated" etc.) but the Germans told the truth about the steaming/gassing/asphyxiating all of which is a matter of court records. No German who wasn't under the threat of legal sanctions gave any such testimony. Of course Nessie is now claiming that no Jew had any first hand knowledge or experience with the "gas chambers". Everything that they wrote in books or gave as testimony is bullshit and should be disregarded.
Of course GPR WASN'T used to locate any graves. CS-C used electrical resistivity for that and never published her GPR scans. Gee, why didn't she do that since she claimed to have done a complete survey of the available grounds? Neither did she return with GPR equipped with a suitable antenna.
Nessie natters on with his usual blather about "mystery excavators" and his magic Jew barbeque. Nothing new there. Nessie provides nothing but half-assed claims and excuses for his alleged witnesses. Giddoutahere!
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 5, 2022 16:45:56 GMT
Nessie is still stamping his feet and shrieking, "It happened, it DID happen". I present evidence it happened. You shriek and stamp your feet it did not happen and demand I believe your arguments from incredulity. The Nazis all stated gassings were from engine exhaust fumes, none of them claimed anything else. Their claims are corroborated and there is no evidence they were coerced during the German trials. The Sonderkommados were not involved in the design and details about the gas chambers. They saw chambers being built and cleared bodies. You are lying. She posted the GPR results and images of GPR scans in her report. Both types of scan located large excavations around the memorial, and you weasel dodge explaining and evidencing why the Nazis dug such large pits. Not knowing the exact make and model does not make an excavator a mystery. The pyres were the same type as used in Tibet, at Dresden and Ohrdruf camp. You have again weasel dodged that transporting and accommodating c2.5 million people by the autumn of 1944, with there being any evidence, is physically impossible. |
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 5, 2022 17:09:43 GMT
Nessie presents bullshit and calls it evidence. In fact he has no "evidence" for what he claims. CS-C presented two (2) plates to GPR scans and NOTHING, zip, zero, nada of any complete scan or analysis of those scans. Like his "evidence", Nessie claims that CS-C presented GPR scans like he claims that Wiernik didn't help build the newer gas chamber so didn't have any knowledge of how it functioned. A full load of bullshit covered by a very thin veneer of cherry-picked truth.
Nessie simply lies about the excavator supposedly used to dig the graves and the cremation procedure in Tibet being the same as as the burned bodies in Ohrdruff. He winds it up with his wail of, "Where did they gooooo?".
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 5, 2022 17:33:08 GMT
Nessie presents bullshit and calls it evidence. In fact he has no "evidence" for what he claims. You then contradict yourself and discuss that evidence. She presents the area surveyed by GPR with Figure 4.10, Figure 4.32 of GPR time slices of feature G4, Figure 4.34 of a GPR image plot of features G50-54 and Figure 4.35 of a GPR profile showing cut edges of feature G38. On page 98 there is a chapter detailing the GPR work and from page 470 onwards are the details about what GPR and the other geophysical surveys found. etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/3531/1/SturdyColls12PhD.pdfYou are a liar. There is ample evidence to prove the Nazis dug large pits at TII and you weasel dodge explaining and evidencing why. Wiernik, who did wood work about the camp, when not working at the gas chambers, did some work with the second gas chamber, hence he had the best knowledge of how it worked. The Nazis had the most detailed knowledge, so you weasel dodge that they all agree an engine was used to gas people. Multiple witnesses speak to the use of excavators, without giving the make and model. TII was next to a quarry. Your suggestion the witnesses all lied about the use of excavators is nonsense. The cremations at Tibet, Ohrdruf and Dresden all piled bodies on top of rails above wood and are similar enough to prove that what the witnesses describe at TII would have worked. You weasel dodge the physical impossibility of your claim millions were transported back out of the death camps and accommodated somewhere, without leaving any evidence. |
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 5, 2022 18:03:05 GMT
CS-C presents no complete analysis of her supposed GPR scans. As before, a thin veneer of truth over a load of bullshit. Same for Wiernik and his work on the new gas chamber. The witnesses probably didn't see any draglines at all. Arad, CS-C, ARC et al. all claimed that the M&H draglines from T-I were used to dig the graves and so did Nessie until that was shown to be an impossibility. Now the excavator is some mystery machine that could both dig and stockpile the ex from the graves. How it got to and from Treblinka is equally mysterious. Rather like how the fuel to cremate 860,000 cadavers just "mysteriously" appeared. So mysteriously that nobody even mentioned seeing thousands of tons of firewood being delivered. Such mysteries.
Nessie lies about the Tibetan cremations being the same as Ohrdruff and Dresden. There weren't any cremations at Ohrdruff or Dresden but the fact that there were bodies burned/charred at those locations is Nessie's thin veneer of truth that he spreads over his lies and bullshit.
As far as Jews being transported out of Treblinka by the trainload, there is evidence. Both testimony and documentary but Nessie dismisses all of that with his claim that the witnesses just didn't know where they were and left from some other location. Does he have anything to back up that speculation? Of course not but deportees leaving Treblinka by the trainload doesn't fit his narrative.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 6, 2022 9:14:34 GMT
CS-C presents no complete analysis of her supposed GPR scans. As before, a thin veneer of truth over a load of bullshit. Same for Wiernik and his work on the new gas chamber. The witnesses probably didn't see any draglines at all. Arad, CS-C, ARC et al. all claimed that the M&H draglines from T-I were used to dig the graves and so did Nessie until that was shown to be an impossibility. Now the excavator is some mystery machine that could both dig and stockpile the ex from the graves. How it got to and from Treblinka is equally mysterious. Rather like how the fuel to cremate 860,000 cadavers just "mysteriously" appeared. So mysteriously that nobody even mentioned seeing thousands of tons of firewood being delivered. Such mysteries. Nessie lies about the Tibetan cremations being the same as Ohrdruff and Dresden. There weren't any cremations at Ohrdruff or Dresden but the fact that there were bodies burned/charred at those locations is Nessie's thin veneer of truth that he spreads over his lies and bullshit. It does not matter how often you repeat your arguments from incredulity, they are still fallacies. From the way the witnesses describe what happened, I can work out how it happened, therefore it happened. That is the form of argument you use. That worker transports, whereby only about 1% of arrivals who were transported back out of TII, left evidence, makes your claim that the other 99% could leave without there being any evidence, physically impossible. You weasel dodge that impossibility. You are lying that I am speculating some did not know what camp they were at. The evidence comes from witnesses who said they went to A-B and records there are of transports from Malkinia, which was nearby to Treblinka. Then there is the evidence that those who say they were inside TII, do not describe anything that matches those who worked inside TII. Then there is the evidence that no one who worked inside TII was even aware of worker selections. |
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 6, 2022 10:06:07 GMT
Nessie shrieks his, "argument from incredulity" just as he would for anything debunking the claims of his so-called "eyewitnesses". Rajchman claiming that the air was pumped out of the gas chamber? Oh that was just a "mistake" or "exaggeration" so anyone who doesn't believe "gas chambers" didn't exist is just "arguing from incredulity". Anyone who doesn't believe that Jews could be cremated without any fuel beyond some kindling is just "arguing from incredulity".
It's a "fallacy" that full trainloads of deportees left Treblinka because the witnesses didn't know their true location so left from Malkinia or "somewhere else". Train schedules/records of trains leaving Treblinka no longer exist so the lack of train records proves that Sam Kulawy couldn't have left Treblinka with a trainload of men, women and children...or something. Neither do records for any of the other deportees who were sent to Majdanek exist but that's OK...or something. Oh, wait a minute, there is one record of deportees arriving at Majdanek but no train schedules for that train. Oh well, it's still a "fallacy"...or something.
Clamshell equipped draglines couldn't exhume whole bodies? That's just a "fallacy", an "argument from incredulity". Bodies can't be piled by hand 20-25 feet high on a 1.5 meter wide grate. That's just another "argument from incredulity"...or something. Bodies can be cremated on grates just like the bodies were cremated in Tibet is just a bald-faced lie but anyone who disagrees is just "arguing from incredulity". No matter the rationale for debunking Nessie's liars, it all ends up a "fallacy", an "argument from incredulity". Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 6, 2022 14:31:13 GMT
Nessie shrieks his, "argument from incredulity" just as he would for anything debunking the claims of his so-called "eyewitnesses". Rajchman claiming that the air was pumped out of the gas chamber? Oh that was just a "mistake" or "exaggeration" so anyone who doesn't believe "gas chambers" didn't exist is just "arguing from incredulity". Anyone who doesn't believe that Jews could be cremated without any fuel beyond some kindling is just "arguing from incredulity". It's a "fallacy" that full trainloads of deportees left Treblinka because the witnesses didn't know their true location so left from Malkinia or "somewhere else". Train schedules/records of trains leaving Treblinka no longer exist so the lack of train records proves that Sam Kulawy couldn't have left Treblinka with a trainload of men, women and children...or something. Neither do records for any of the other deportees who were sent to Majdanek exist but that's OK...or something. Oh, wait a minute, there is one record of deportees arriving at Majdanek but no train schedules for that train. Oh well, it's still a "fallacy"...or something. Clamshell equipped draglines couldn't exhume whole bodies? That's just a "fallacy", an "argument from incredulity". Bodies can't be piled by hand 20-25 feet high on a 1.5 meter wide grate. That's just another "argument from incredulity"...or something. Bodies can be cremated on grates just like the bodies were cremated in Tibet is just a bald-faced lie but anyone who disagrees is just "arguing from incredulity". No matter the rationale for debunking Nessie's liars, it all ends up a "fallacy", an "argument from incredulity". Yeah, that's the ticket. I can see how what the witnesses described would work and I do not take what the witnesses said literally. I can see that the Nazis could engineer gas chambers, dig big pits with excavators and cremate on pyres using rails. Just because you cannot, means nothing.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 6, 2022 16:00:21 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Yes, and I can see how your imaginations are more relevant to you than the actual testimony of the witnesses.
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Post by Nessie on Mar 6, 2022 16:41:56 GMT
Nessie wrote: Yes, and I can see how your imaginations are more relevant to you than the actual testimony of the witnesses. You go by your imagination and not the evidence. Are you now admitting you are wrong to use your imagination? |
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 6, 2022 18:15:54 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Let's get something straight here, Nessie. I am going by what the witnesses SAID. Nothing imaginary about that, they wrote their claims in books and gave them in testimony in both courts and interviews. YOU are the person who uses his imagination to make excuses for their lies. I do indeed take it literally that when a witness says that the air was pumped out of the gas chamber before the CO from the tank engine exhaust was pumped into it that he meant that the air was pumped out of the gas chamber before the exhaust from the tank engine was turned into the gas chamber. When Wiernik said that the dragline could lift 3,000 cadavers at a time then I assume that he meant that the dragline could lift 3,000 cadavers at a time. When a witness claimed that 2-3,000 cadavers could be stacked by hand on a grate 1.5X30 meters that's precisely what he meant.
YOU are the one who uses his imagination to excuse the lies of the witnesses. "You can't take the witnesses literally". Witnesses make "mistakes" or "exaggerate". YOU are the person who declares the witnesses unreliable and irrelevant. YOU are the one who says, "Believe what I say and don't pay any attention to what the eyewitnesses say".
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