Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 26, 2022 12:27:18 GMT
Nessie is still harping on the shuttle trains. Still trying to cover up the fact that nobody can find the outbound train schedules from Treblinka. Suuuuure, those train schedules are in some unnamed "ghetto archive". Nessie just can't quite lay his digital hands on them and give a link to their location where a print-out of such documents could be had.
Nessie wrote:
I didn't ask you for "information". I'm aware of the shuttle trains. I asked you for the train schedules for the outbound trains from Treblinka. You weasel dodge that request with your weak suck claim that they're in some unspecified ghetto archive.
WHERE'S THE EFFING TRAIN SCHEDULES, NESSIE? Those schedules are missing because from just 20 witnesses we have proof that at least 15-20,000 deportees left Treblinka alive and kicking. Nessie is doing his level best to hide that fact.
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Post by Nessie on Feb 26, 2022 15:20:00 GMT
Nessie is still harping on the shuttle trains. Still trying to cover up the fact that nobody can find the outbound train schedules from Treblinka. Suuuuure, those train schedules are in some unnamed "ghetto archive". Nessie just can't quite lay his digital hands on them and give a link to their location where a print-out of such documents could be had. Nessie wrote: I didn't ask you for "information". I'm aware of the shuttle trains. I asked you for the train schedules for the outbound trains from Treblinka. You weasel dodge that request with your weak suck claim that they're in some unspecified ghetto archive. WHERE'S THE EFFING TRAIN SCHEDULES, NESSIE? Those schedules are missing because from just 20 witnesses we have proof that at least 15-20,000 deportees left Treblinka alive and kicking. Nessie is doing his level best to hide that fact.
I have shown you the schedules that record outbound trains from TII to Warsaw, Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice. You weasel dodge that alone, that accounts for over 30% of all trains and over 300,000 people, who arrived at TII and their trains left empty. Here are those schedules again, to rub it in your face;
Warsaw;
Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice;
Lukow;
I have explained that the other ghettos sent trains to TII, which like the above, would have returned empty, because like the above, the ghettos were being emptied of people. You weasel dodge that accounts for the vast majority of the rest of the trains.
You then weasel dodge that Mattogno found records of arrivals at Majdanek from TII, which corroborates the witnesses who say they left TII for Majdanek.
You then weasel dodge that historians know about train transports because of the archives. The Majdanek camp archive is here;
Archives that had records regarding transports include USHMM, Bad Arolsen and The Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites for Poland, which is the source recorded for the schedules linked to above. Turnagain thinks that because he cannot be shown every single document and they are all handed to him on a plate, he can claim there are no documents.
He is weasel dodging that he cannot produce any documents or other evidence, at all, that record regular mass transports back out of TII.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 26, 2022 16:25:12 GMT
Nessie continues to natter on about the shuttle trains and has now created the claim that almost all of the trains that went to Treblinka were part of the shuttle service. A few more posts and I'm sure that he can get that up to 99+% of trains that went to Treblinka. No more than 20 trains ever left Treblinka with passengers and the passengers were just "selected for work" so those passengers didn't really transit through the camp.
Nessie has no intention of answering my question of, "Where are the schedules for trains leaving Treblinka". According to Nessie the majority of them were on shuttle service and within a few more posts, only the trains that are known to have left Treblinka with passengers will be the trains not on shuttle service. Twenty trains at most. Nessie has an untranslated document to prove it.
Nessie is close to achieving his goal of all trains from Treblinka on shuttle service excepting the 20 mentioned by the witnesses and of course Zabecki and the Polish trainmen just missed seeing those few trains. After all, when ya' gotta' go, ya' gotta' go so everybody "coulda" just have been off having a pee when those few trains went past. Yeah, that's the ticket. The Majdanek archive definitely has all of the schedules for those trains anyway.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 26, 2022 16:35:04 GMT
.... Nessie has no intention of answering my question of, "Where are the schedules for trains leaving Treblinka".... You are lying. I have shown you the schedules for trains leaving TII for Warsaw, Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice. I have told you where the other schedules are located and why we know they are in the archives.
You just repeatedly ask me that question, despite me having answered it on multiple occasions, to weasel dodge that those named ghettos alone account for over 30% of trains departing TII and that means over 300,000 people arrived at TII and the schedules show the trains went back to the ghettos where they came from.
That alone is proof TII was not a transit camp.
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Post by Nessie on Feb 26, 2022 16:38:40 GMT
... No more than 20 trains ever left Treblinka with passengers and the passengers were just "selected for work" so those passengers didn't really transit through the camp. .... Correct, there is only evidence that a tiny number of trains left TII carrying people and they all went to labour camps in Poland at Majdanek, Budzyn and Poniatowa, which are either south or west of TII. Worker selections do not make a transit camp. Worker selections also took place at Sobibor, Belzec and Birkenau, where the rest of the transport was gassed. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 26, 2022 17:04:32 GMT
Hurrah! Nessie is now claiming that only 20 trains ever left Treblinka with passengers and all the rest of the trains were on shuttle service. Just as predicted. The schedules for trains carrying passengers from Treblinka are of course in the Majdanek archive. No need to question that, there's no doubt about it. The fact that deportees were "selected for work" from Belzec and Sobibor is proof that they were extermination facilities. Of course that could be taken as evidence of all three camps being transit camps but perish the thought. Life in holyhoax la-la land.
Uh...Nessie, are you staying with the claim that Zabecki and the boys just happened to be off having a pee when those 20 trains went past the Treblinka station?
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Post by Nessie on Feb 26, 2022 17:13:56 GMT
Hurrah! Nessie is now claiming that only 20 trains ever left Treblinka with passengers and all the rest of the trains were on shuttle service. Just as predicted. The evidence from schedules is that the vast majority of trains went from ghetto to TII and then returned to the town or city the ghetto was in. Yet again you weasel dodge that the schedules which are online account for over 30% and over 300,000 people, which alone proves TII was not a transit camp. Mattogno in his book about Majdanek reports he found records of transports from TII, Sobibor and Belzec. Are you saying he lied and he did not find any records of transports? It is reasonable that when only about 1% of trains leaving TII left with passengers, that there is hardly any mention of seeing such trains. You weasel dodge that Zabecki noted two such trains in the records of his that are online. You weasel dodge that you have no evidence, from records or witnesses, of regular mass transports out of TII, so your demand that I believe TII was a transit camp is not backed by any evidence. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 26, 2022 18:02:38 GMT
Nessie has one page from an untranslated document but that obviously means that all of the trains that carried passengers to Treblinka returned to ghettos empty to load more passengers. Hey, a document is a document. Mattogno didn't say that he had the train schedules. He just said that information existed that proved trains carrying passengers left Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka. If you can show where he specifically stated that he had the schedules then let's see it.
Yep, Nessie has morphed the 30% of trains that were originally on shuttle service into 99% of all trains that took deportees to Treblinka being on shuttle service. I said that would happen in a previous post and look what Nessie is now claiming. There's only 20 witnesses to deportees leaving Treblinka via rail and only three of those are for entire trainloads or "mass transit". Nessie has never produced the train schedules for any of those trains or for his 99% of the other trains but he has his untranslated document so never mind.
Nessie claims that it's "reasonable" that nobody noticed the 20 trains that left Treblinka carrying passengers. Zabecki and the Polish trainmen were just off having a beer or a pee or something so just missed them. Yeah, that's the ticket. Life in holyhoax la-la land.
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Post by Nessie on Feb 26, 2022 19:23:37 GMT
Nessie has one page from an untranslated document but that obviously means that all of the trains that carried passengers to Treblinka returned to ghettos empty to load more passengers. Hey, a document is a document. Mattogno didn't say that he had the train schedules. He just said that information existed that proved trains carrying passengers left Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka. If you can show where he specifically stated that he had the schedules then let's see it. Yep, Nessie has morphed the 30% of trains that were originally on shuttle service into 99% of all trains that took deportees to Treblinka being on shuttle service. I said that would happen in a previous post and look what Nessie is now claiming. There's only 20 witnesses to deportees leaving Treblinka via rail and only three of those are for entire trainloads or "mass transit". Nessie has never produced the train schedules for any of those trains or for his 99% of the other trains but he has his untranslated document so never mind. Nessie claims that it's "reasonable" that nobody noticed the 20 trains that left Treblinka carrying passengers. Zabecki and the Polish trainmen were just off having a beer or a pee or something so just missed them. Yeah, that's the ticket. Life in holyhoax la-la land. Yet again you weasel dodge that the schedules which are online for Warsaw, Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice, account for over 30% of trains and over 300,000 people arriving at TII, on trains that then returned to the ghettos they left from, which alone proves TII was not a transit camp.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 27, 2022 7:41:01 GMT
I've been re-reading -
My question is how could anyone believe any of this mish-mash of pure bullshit? From the beginning of steam chambers through the vacuum pumping, death by asphyxiation, to the exhaust from engines that had "special" additives to the fuel, exhaust from diesel engines and to the current CO from the exhaust of a Soviet gasoline tank engine is beyond rational comprehension. Nevertheless, Nessie demands that we believe that anything but the claims of CO from a gasoline tank engine were just "mistakes" or "exaggerations".
Then we have the question of train schedules. A certain number of the trains leaving Treblinka were assigned to a shuttle service between Warsaw and other ghettos to transport Jews to Treblinka. Nessie has now morphed that into 99% of the trains that left Treblinka did so as shuttle service.
The only conclusion I can draw from this is that I'm trying to have a rational debate with a madman. IOW, Nessie is crazier than a [excrement]-house rat. No rational person could believe such egregious bullshit.
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Post by Nessie on Feb 27, 2022 9:01:49 GMT
I've been re-reading - My question is how could anyone believe any of this mish-mash of pure bullshit? From the beginning of steam chambers through the vacuum pumping, death by asphyxiation, to the exhaust from engines that had "special" additives to the fuel, exhaust from diesel engines and to the current CO from the exhaust of a Soviet gasoline tank engine is beyond rational comprehension. Nevertheless, Nessie demands that we believe that anything but the claims of CO from a gasoline tank engine were just "mistakes" or "exaggerations". Then we have the question of train schedules. A certain number of the trains leaving Treblinka were assigned to a shuttle service between Warsaw and other ghettos to transport Jews to Treblinka. Nessie has now morphed that into 99% of the trains that left Treblinka did so as shuttle service. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that I'm trying to have a rational debate with a madman. IOW, Nessie is crazier than a [excrement]-house rat. No rational person could believe such egregious bullshit. Just because you find it too hard to believe, does not mean therefore it did not happen. You have fallen for the logical fallacy of argument from incredulity.
Your inexperience in dealing with witnesses is why you do understand how they behave, their flaws and, you have to claim the witnesses you cannot dismiss as saying incredible things, have been coerced, with no evidence of such.
The witnesses are corroborated by other evidence and consistent about deaths by asphyxiation inside chambers, large pits, cremations and the theft of property.
The cover up of what did happen inside the camps and the hoax you allege is physically impossible to have achieved and is totally unevidenced.
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Post by Nessie on Feb 27, 2022 9:48:12 GMT
Turnagain has asked me a question in a thread I am prevented from replying in, as part of the ongoing censorship of RODOH, making challenges to the weak denier arguments far harder. rodoh.info/post/4502/threadThe corroborating evidence about the use of an engine is from multiple witnesses. When both Nazi and Jewish witness agree, that makes their claims even more credible, as they would not normally cooperate. |
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Post by Nessie on Feb 27, 2022 10:07:58 GMT
Been-there, who is too scared to debate me and hides behind the forum censorship, has claimed there is no corroboration for the witnesses to the following. rodoh.info/post/4505/thread1 - the gas vans. Lie, there is documentary evidence of gas vans. 2 - mass graves at Babi Yar. Lie, there is the circumstantial evidence proving the Nazis forced Jews to gather there and shot them and documentary evidence as to how many were shot. 3 - the columns and holes at the Kremas. Lie, there is documentary evidence for the columns and photographic and physical evidence of the holes. 4 - the mass graves and buried cremains at TII. Lie, there is archaeological, forensic, photographic and geophysical evidence. Deniers revel in their ignorance of what evidence there is, so they can pretend there is a lack of evidence. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 27, 2022 10:26:43 GMT
Suuuure, that "ropa" gas will getcha' every time. That's unless the vacuum doesn't get you first and if that doesn't work, the CO from the diesel engine...oops...the gasoline engine is sure to do the job. Gotta' dodge the steam chambers first, though. Besides, anything that the witnesses said are just the "normal" mistakes made by all witnesses. Everyone knows that. Kinda' like when the witnesses said that the cadavers turned blue, black and yellow from CO poisoning. That red/pint color only comes with rigor mortis. Doesn't have anything to do with CO poisoning.
Of course we have to take into account the self cremating cadavers. All you have to do is use some kindling to set them alight and they burn on their own. Rajchman said so and so did Steiner so it must be true. Twigs, brush or some "brushwood" will do the trick just fine. Then we have the graves that couldn't have been dug with the M&H draglines as claimed but hey, no eyewitness said "M&H" so we "COULDA" had some magical mystery machine dig and stockpile the ex from the graves. In holyhoax la-la land, nothing is impossible or even improbable. What the hell, given enough "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" the little boy "coulda" rode his tricycle to the moon.
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Post by Nessie on Feb 27, 2022 10:33:05 GMT
Suuuure, that "ropa" gas will getcha' every time. That's unless the vacuum doesn't get you first and if that doesn't work, the CO from the diesel engine...oops...the gasoline engine is sure to do the job. Gotta' dodge the steam chambers first, though. Besides, anything that the witnesses said are just the "normal" mistakes made by all witnesses. Everyone knows that. Kinda' like when the witnesses said that the cadavers turned blue, black and yellow from CO poisoning. That red/pint color only comes with rigor mortis. Doesn't have anything to do with CO poisoning. Of course we have to take into account the self cremating cadavers. All you have to do is use some kindling to set them alight and they burn on their own. Rajchman said so and so did Steiner so it must be true. Twigs, brush or some "brushwood" will do the trick just fine. Then we have the graves that couldn't have been dug with the M&H draglines as claimed but hey, no eyewitness said "M&H" so we "COULDA" had some magical mystery machine dig and stockpile the ex from the graves. In holyhoax la-la land, nothing is impossible or even improbable. What the hell, given enough "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" the little boy "coulda" rode his tricycle to the moon. Those with experience of witness evidence, know how to differentiate between rumour, hearsay, exaggerations, emotive descriptions, mistakes etc and eyewitness evidence and how to determine what claims are corroborated, what are not. From that, only the corroborated evidence is accepted and the rest is dismissed as inaccurate.
Deniers mix all the evidence together, without any differentiation, take what witnesses said literally, with no understanding of how people actually speak and then cry it is too incredible to believe and make the fallacious argument that therefore all the witnesses lied and there were no gassings.
Deniers are unique with their methodology, which is not used by any credible means of investigation such as the historial method or criminal investigations. Such as the arrogance of deniers, they think they are right and everyone else is wrong.
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