Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 28, 2022 8:20:31 GMT
Nessie wrote:
"It's raining cats and dogs" is an old and well known saying so I'm not likely to take it literally. If someone were to say, "It's raining rocks and boulders" I would at least ask him what he was talking about. If he continued with his claim about raining rocks and boulders in Palmer, Alaska in previous years I would research weather phenomena for Palmer and finding nothing about it raining rocks and boulders I'd conclude that the witness was lying. You have attempted a false analogy and failed miserably.
Wiernik didn't say that he had run three marathons. He said that he had ran from dawn til sundown, sunup til sundown without stopping for even a drink of water. There was 13 hours of daylight on August 24, 1942. I checked with the naval weather station for hours of daylight for the latitude and longitude for Treblinka. It was 12 hours and 40-50 minutes; I don't recall the exact number but very close to 13 hours. A brisk walk will accomplish 4 mph so running would be 5-6 mph. Trained athletes can average over 9 mph for running a marathon. So, Wiernik essentially claimed to have ran nonstop approximately 3 marathons in his 13 hour day without taking a drink of water. That's bullshit. No different that someone claiming it rained rocks and boulders in Palmer, Alaska and no effing way related to the old saying of, "It's raining cats and dogs".
Really? Try being a little more specific about what I'm mixed up about.
Listen up, dimwit, the number of people transported in however many trainloads has NOTHING, zip, zero, nada to do with the number of trains employed to fulfill the task. What can't you understand about that? Going by the wikipedia timeline the Warsaw ghetto was emptied in precisely 60 days. The Germans said that one (1) train was detailed for the Warsaw shuttle service but according to the wiki page it would have taken at least two (2) trains. Personally I'm inclined to take the German's word for how many trains were assigned to shuttle service but I'll accept that possibly two trains were assigned to the Warsaw shuttle. You idiotically equate the number of loads of Jews transported out of Warsaw to the number of trains required to do the job. You then use the number of loads of Jews to calculate your 30% of the total number of trains that entered and left Treblinka. That number is completely unknown and you're too mathematically illiterate to comprehend your eff-up.
If you're aware of that then how the hell can you claim to know that 30% of the trains entering and leaving Treblinka were assigned to the shuttle service? One, possibly two trains carried ~30% of the deportees transported to Treblinka. At least that's what wiki claims. Their bibliography reads like an invitation to a bar mitzvah so take it for what it is.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 28, 2022 9:55:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: "It's raining cats and dogs" is an old and well known saying so I'm not likely to take it literally. If someone were to say, "It's raining rocks and boulders" I would at least ask him what he was talking about. If he continued with his claim about raining rocks and boulders in Palmer, Alaska in previous years I would research weather phenomena for Palmer and finding nothing about it raining rocks and boulders I'd conclude that the witness was lying. You have attempted a false analogy and failed miserably. Wiernik didn't say that he had run three marathons. He said that he had ran from dawn til sundown, sunup til sundown without stopping for even a drink of water. There was 13 hours of daylight on August 24, 1942. I checked with the naval weather station for hours of daylight for the latitude and longitude for Treblinka. It was 12 hours and 40-50 minutes; I don't recall the exact number but very close to 13 hours. A brisk walk will accomplish 4 mph so running would be 5-6 mph. Trained athletes can average over 9 mph for running a marathon. So, Wiernik essentially claimed to have ran nonstop approximately 3 marathons in his 13 hour day without taking a drink of water. That's bullshit. No different that someone claiming it rained rocks and boulders in Palmer, Alaska and no effing way related to the old saying of, "It's raining cats and dogs". He said he ran from dawn to dusk, which is like the claim of running a marathon at the shops. You have taken an obvious turn of phrase and taken it literally. He obviously did stop at times, such as waiting for gassings to end. He claimed he had to work hard all day long, which anyone knows is possible and not to be taken literally You said some bones shards is proof of tons of bone and bits of broken tile were proof of the gas chambers. You are confused, they are both examples of evidence, not proof. You have been told that before, but you lack the ability to understand. You are doing everything you can think of to weasel dodge that Warsaw sent over a quarter of a million Jews to TII on trains that returned empty. The Nazi records and witnesses prove the Warsaw ghetto was emptied gradually over 1942-3, mostly to TII. Some weeks the only trains TII got were from Warsaw. I have explained why I say it was about a third of trains and a third of people sent to TII. It does not matter that you are unhappy with that, the totals still blow your transit camp claim away. You complain about a supposed lack of evidence, but there is evidence of transports arriving at TII most days it was open, there was not room for many more transports to go. If more transports did arrive, then instead of c850,000 being sent to the camp, it was c900,000 or more. That makes the situation even worse for you, because now there are even more people you cannot account for, since you say they not gassed. You demand that I believe in some sort of transiting process inside TII, that there is no evidence for and that c840,000 people left, for which there is no evidence from any source, witness or document. That puts you slap bang in la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 28, 2022 10:02:05 GMT
The Warsaw shuttle train record here states www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigschedule.jpg"Until further notice a special train with resettlers runs from Warsaw Danziger station to Treblinka, and back empty..." It gives the times of departure and arrival. It does not say what a train is. We know that a transport tended to be 1000 at a time, with locomotives pulling and/or pushing carriages. But each day anywhere from 5 to 10,000 could arrive at TII, so a train could be a huge transport of various locos with multiple carriages. At TII, those locos had to be split to go in and out the camp. Those are details we will never know about. The important part is that Warsaw was being emptied to TII and those trains returned empty. That is what you weasel dodge, because it blows away your transit camp claim. There is no space in the day, as thousands of Warsaw Jews are being taken into TII a few carriages at a time, for other trains to appear to collect them and take them elsewhere.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 28, 2022 10:39:36 GMT
Nessie wrote:
More tiresome bullshit. Wiernik specifically stated that he didn't stop running for even a drink of water. You can weasel dodge from now til forever but Wiernik LIED about how he carried cadavers to the graves which were 300 meters distance from the ramp, not the gas chamber. He was claiming to be clearing out bodies from Eberle's supposedly failed command.
More bullshit. Nessie claims that such "evidence" is "overwhelming" but denies it's proof. What I said was such "evidence" isn't proof of anything. Nessie claims his "evidence" is "overwhelming" when it's convenient and denies that it's proof when it isn't. It all depends on which way Nessie wants the weasel to dodge.
I don't give a shit how many Jews you claim were transported out of Warsaw. The fact remains that one, possibly two trains were detailed to return empty to Warsaw to load Jews and you claim they constitute 30% of the total number of trains that entered and left Treblinka. Your idiotic attempt at mathematics is a miserable FAIL. The rest of your drivel about the number of Jews that were sent to Treblinka from Warsaw is just smoke and horse frocky to cover up your math FAIL.
That's because it an effing TIMETABLE not a train SCHEDULE.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 28, 2022 10:51:22 GMT
Nessie wrote: More tiresome bullshit. Wiernik specifically stated that he didn't stop running for even a drink of water. You can weasel dodge from now til forever but Wiernik LIED about how he carried cadavers to the graves which were 300 meters distance from the ramp, not the gas chamber. He was claiming to be clearing out bodies from Eberle's supposedly failed command. Only deniers take the witnesses literally. Everyone else knows that is stupid. You have ignored many people will say things like, "I haven't stopped all day", "I have not had a bite to eat", "I have run a marathon today", and you know they are not being literal. You are so stupid that you think each piece of evidence proves what happened, despite it being repeatedly explained to you that each piece of evidence combines and converges to prove what happened. For example, again, the bits of cremated bone are evidence of cremations. How many were cremated is evidenced not by the bits of bone, but the witnesses and records of how many went to the camp. You will not understand that, despite it being a simple, logical process of piecing evidence together logically and chronologically to prove what happened. OK, so the Treblinka timeline shows 267,121 people were transported from Warsaw on 53 train transports. What percentage do they make of the total of 850,000 people on 219 train transports to TII? How many Jews do you say were sent from Warsaw to TII? Show your evidence. It is a Fahrplananordnung, which translates as schedule arrangement and it shows the times of the trains.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 28, 2022 11:17:11 GMT
Nessie wrote:
That could be taken as a possibility if that were Wiernik's only clanger. It wasn't. There were lots more so don't try to make out that Wiernik was just using an everyday expression like, "I have run a marathon today". Wiernik said nothing about marathons.
That may be but what you call "evidence" is nothing but unrelated bullshit. A handful of unidentified bone shards found on the surface at Treblinka has NO effing relation to the alleged 2-2,500 TONS of cremains especially when there was no viable means of cremation at Treblinka. CS-C's shallow little holes have NO relation to 12 meter deep graves as described by Rajchman. Your "evidence" is dreck that you try to stitch up into proof.
Nessie is still trying to cover up his math eff up about 30% of the trains that entered/left Treblinka were the train(s) assigned to the Warsaw shuttle service.
No, it's an effing TIMETABLE and that's not the same as a train SCHEDULE. Turn and squirm to your heart's content but they're not the same. [/quote]
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 28, 2022 11:51:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: That could be taken as a possibility if that were Wiernik's only clanger. It wasn't. There were lots more so don't try to make out that Wiernik was just using an everyday expression like, "I have run a marathon today". Wiernik said nothing about marathons. That he used more turns of phrase and expressions that you or I are used to, does not mean he lied about everything he saw. You use the way Jewish witnesse speak to try to claim they all lied. The Nazis speak differently, so you have to switch tactics with them and claim they were coerced. That cremains can still be found on the surface of the camp in 2014, is related to the large areas of cremated remains that were found in 1945, which is related to witness descriptions of months of cremations, which is related to documents recording hundreds of thousands of people were sent to TII. All that evidence together then proves mass cremations. What "eff up"? Show where my calculations are wrong. Whether it is called a schedule, as the Nazis called it, or a timetable, or just a transport document, it evidences a large proportion of trains left TII empty, which combined with the other evidence, proves most trains left TII empty.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 28, 2022 12:21:55 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Really? What was his "turn of phrase" when he said that the cadavers turned yellow from CO poisoning? How about when he said that the gas chamber had hermetic sealing doors and the roof vent had a hermetic vent? What was his "turn of phrase when he said that a pistol bullet fired at close range only penetrated his shirt and left nothing but a "mark" on his shoulder ? Tell me what his "turn of phrase" was for those instances.
You don't even know if those little bone shards are human or if they came from Jews dumping cremains at Treblinka. Claiming that they are "evidence" of 2-2,500 tons of cremains supposedly buried in pits 30-40 feet deep is ludicrous.
You claimed that 30% of the trains that left Treblinka left empty to return to Warsaw. That's your eff up. You're now just trying to change your story. Doesn't fly. You can't calculate a percentage of an unknown number. You can run but you can't hide from that fact.
More bullshit. Since you don't know how many trains entered and left Treblinka you CAN'T determine how many left empty. Your claim is idiotic. Besides, a timetable isn't a train schedule.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 28, 2022 12:44:18 GMT
Nessie wrote: Really? What was his "turn of phrase" when he said that the cadavers turned yellow from CO poisoning? How about when he said that the gas chamber had hermetic sealing doors and the roof vent had a hermetic vent? What was his "turn of phrase when he said that a pistol bullet fired at close range only penetrated his shirt and left nothing but a "mark" on his shoulder ? Tell me what his "turn of phrase" was for those instances. He described the dead from starvation and lack of water as yellow, not just those gassed. He said that it was as if the bullet bounced off him. Those phrases and descriptions are not literal. That the doors and a roof cap had hermetic sealing makes sense. You have weasel dodged that your tactic is to use the way Jews describe what they saw as supposed proof they all lied, but you cannot do the same with the Nazis. Just because someone uses emotive language, turns of phrase and does not always describe what they saw literally, does not mean they lied. You would not accuse someone who states they had a hard day at work by saying they ran a marathon and not a bite to eat of lying. You know they are using hyperbolic turns of phrase to describe their hard day at work. Ash from urns for cremations are finer and more regular than what was found at TII. That ash was scattered by some people at TII, does not account for the cremains found by C S-C and how more appear each time it rains. That evidences the presence of buried cremains, which is part of the evidence of teh cremations and burial of the cremains. I claimed that 30% of the trains from the timeline of known trains to TII, were Warsaw trains that returned empty. I showed you how I reached that calculation and you cannot show it to be wrong. Of the known train transports, about 30% were from Warsaw and the document showing the times and route of the Warsaw train makes it clear those trains returned empty. You are weasel dodging that blows your transit camp claim apart and that you have no evidence of trains full of people from Warsaw leaving TII.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 28, 2022 19:49:27 GMT
Only deniers take the witnesses literally. Everyone else knows that is stupid. You have ignored many people will say things like, "I haven't stopped all day", "I have not had a bite to eat", "I have run a marathon today", and you know they are not being literal. If youre talking about a conversation between friends I understand, but it was a book full of the worst accusations - so he disdained accuracy deliberately.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 28, 2022 22:33:47 GMT
The English translation of Wiernik's book at:
www. zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm has been taken down. Yad Vashem now offers a heavily edited version of Wiernik's opus. For example, Wiernik's description of an excavator that could exhume 3,000 cadavers at a time has been changed to, "an excavator that could exhume many, many bodies". PDF versions require "registration" while the published version is available for sale on all the usual suspects. Bing, duckduckgo, startpage all give the same answer of, "Address not found". Anyone have an address for an unredacted copy of Wiernik's little book? Nessie is now free to lie about what Wiernik said without fear of someone quoting Wiernik's actual words to him. Thus we get: So, the Jews want to know who is accessing their hero's actual words. I'll have to poke around and see if an anonymous version of Wiernik's book is still available. Prolly not. Congratulations, Nessie, you're now free to lie about what Wiernik said with impunity.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Mar 29, 2022 9:52:34 GMT
The English translation of Wiernik's book at:
www. zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm has been taken down. Yad Vashem now offers a heavily edited version of Wiernik's opus. For example, Wiernik's description of an excavator that could exhume 3,000 cadavers at a time has been changed to, "an excavator that could exhume many, many bodies". PDF versions require "registration" while the published version is available for sale on all the usual suspects. Bing, duckduckgo, startpage all give the same answer of, "Address not found". Anyone have an address for an unredacted copy of Wiernik's little book? Nessie is now free to lie about what Wiernik said without fear of someone quoting Wiernik's actual words to him. Thus we get: So, the Jews want to know who is accessing their hero's actual words. I'll have to poke around and see if an anonymous version of Wiernik's book is still available. Prolly not. Congratulations, Nessie, you're now free to lie about what Wiernik said with impunity. Its vital we get and keep the original. Im sure Ive got a copy somewhere.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Mar 29, 2022 10:37:18 GMT
mrolonzo wrote:
That would be extremely handy. Can't imagine why I didn't make a copy of it when it was available. Hindsight is 20/20.
Nessie has already begun his lies with, "He described the dead from starvation and lack of water as yellow, not just those gassed.". He's also claimed that the bone chips found on the surface at Treblinka are the cremains although Rajchman declared that the cremains were beaten into a powder "as fine as cigarette ash".
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 29, 2022 10:47:15 GMT
Only deniers take the witnesses literally. Everyone else knows that is stupid. You have ignored many people will say things like, "I haven't stopped all day", "I have not had a bite to eat", "I have run a marathon today", and you know they are not being literal. If youre talking about a conversation between friends I understand, but it was a book full of the worst accusations - so he disdained accuracy deliberately. It is his memories of what happened. Considering what happened and what he described, it would be less credible if he wrote it in a matter of fact, unemotive, just something that once happened to him way.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Mar 29, 2022 10:48:52 GMT
The English translation of Wiernik's book at:
www. zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm has been taken down. Yad Vashem now offers a heavily edited version of Wiernik's opus. For example, Wiernik's description of an excavator that could exhume 3,000 cadavers at a time has been changed to, "an excavator that could exhume many, many bodies". PDF versions require "registration" while the published version is available for sale on all the usual suspects. Bing, duckduckgo, startpage all give the same answer of, "Address not found". Anyone have an address for an unredacted copy of Wiernik's little book? Nessie is now free to lie about what Wiernik said without fear of someone quoting Wiernik's actual words to him. Thus we get: So, the Jews want to know who is accessing their hero's actual words. I'll have to poke around and see if an anonymous version of Wiernik's book is still available. Prolly not. Congratulations, Nessie, you're now free to lie about what Wiernik said with impunity. No, since I now have no online access to his book and I do not have the physical book. You were the one who lies about what witnesses said.
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