Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 25, 2022 8:54:35 GMT
This is totally off topic. Actually, no. It is on topic. ๐ It is Nessie giving a practical demonstration of how holocaust promulgators attempt to โprove a lieโ by literally stupid โ but amazingly so far succesful โ hopelessly irrational โreasoningโ. ๐ 1. Documents showing only train movements of people delusionally becomes โproofโ of mass-gassings. Wrong, the documents are corroborating evidence of mass arrivals. Wrong. The original blueprints are merely what was designed in the first place. The evidence from witnesses and photos is that the Nazis destroyed the evidence, which can then be used to infer they had something to hide and their actions were criminal. Excavations the size of large swimming pools found by geophysics around the memorial, 2 hectares of disturbed ground containing cremated and larger human remains and the sharks tooth found near the surface, are all evidence that the the Nazis were excavating and burying and covering over at TII. I don't know about those issues. Not proof, evidence of. The documentary, physical and circumstantial evidence TOGETHER, converges to prove what happened. Each piece of evidence corroorates each part of the witness claims. |
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Agandaur
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Post by Agandaur on Feb 25, 2022 9:28:43 GMT
Correlation not corroboration. Coincidences.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 25, 2022 9:38:35 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No assumption. The narrative declares that the engine used to produce the CO was from a Soviet tank. Soviet tanks used used only two (2) types of gasoline engines to power their tanks. That's a historical fact. The M-5 was the smallest of those engines at 27 liters displacement
The fact is that the Germans not only could have built gas chambers, they did build them. Quite a few of them. They even had gas chambers large enough to disinfest trains as did the US on their border with Mexico. The US even used poison gas as a means of execution so don't try to sell any bullshit about how nobody knows how gas chambers should be constructed.
More of Nessie's tired "what ifs" and "coulda woulda". "WHAT IF" the little boy had rockets on his tricycle? Then he "COULDA" rode it to the moon.
Given the quality of the rest of the witnesses' testimony, it means that he was lying his ass off.
When NO witness gives a believable narrative of the alleged murderous events at Treblinka we know that it's an effing lie. You have a list of "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" longer than the list of so-called witnesses. Not to mention the list of "emotive answers", "mistakes", "exaggerations" and the rest of your asinine excuses. You have nothing but a fantasy from holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 25, 2022 9:42:43 GMT
Correlation not corroboration. Coincidences. If multiple documents record mass transports to a camp and multiple witnesses report mass transports to a camp, then that is corroborating evidence of mass transports to the camp, which then proves there were mass transports. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 25, 2022 10:28:34 GMT
Nessie wrote
Now show us all, not just 30%, but ALL of the train schedules for outbound trains from Treblinka. We know that trains carrying at least 15-20,000 deportees left Treblinka so where are the schedules for those trains? Where is the testimony from Zabecki and the polish trainmen attesting to those trains leaving Treblinka? You claim them as reliable witnesses so where's their testimony?
(Nessie is going to weasel dodge this question just as he's done before. Hide and watch, folks.)
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 25, 2022 13:44:41 GMT
Nessie wrote Now show us all, not just 30%, but ALL of the train schedules for outbound trains from Treblinka. We know that trains carrying at least 15-20,000 deportees left Treblinka so where are the schedules for those trains? How many times do I have to answer that question, before you remember the answer? Here is a previous answer; rodoh.info/post/4369/threadTo find the schedules of trains that left TII with passengers for Majdanek, Budzyn and Poniatowa, search the archives. Mattogno found some records at Majdanek. To find the schedules of trains that left TII and returned to ghettos, search the ghetto records. I have shown you want is online for Warsaw, Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice. Other records will be in the relevant ghetto archive, as that is how historians know about the transports to TII. rodoh.info/post/4319/threadrodoh.info/post/4357/threadI have shown you that before as well, here is the site where I got the Polish rail worker testimonies from; www.zapisyterroru.pl/dlibra/results?action=AdvancedSearchAction&type=-3&search_attid1=62&search_value1=Treblinka%20%E2%80%93%20extermination%20camp&p=0For some reason many are now locked for open access, but there is also testimony here; portal.ehri-project.eu/units/us-005578-irn507789/search?lang=eng&page=5You have asked me to link you to evidence relating to TII so often and lied that I have not shown you that evidence that I complied all the evidence that is online on the old RODOH and then again here; www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=32918You should show some decency and apologise for your lie that I run and hide from showing you the evidence that is online and I can access. I have just proved you lied, by linking you to that evidence and where I have previously shown you that evidence. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 25, 2022 13:46:49 GMT
....Now show us all, not just 30%, but ALL of the train schedules for outbound trains from Treblinka.... Now I have shown you the evidence I have that corroborates the witnesses, you show me the evidence you have, from documents and other sources to prove your claim all of the witnesses lied. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 25, 2022 14:38:25 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Predictably, Nessie weasel dodges. No train schedules for trains outbound from Treblinka. Clouds of bullshit but NO train schedules. As in, "Mattogno found records at Majdanek". Mattogno found records that corroborated the statement from one Treblinka deportee but DIDN'T find any train schedules for trains outbound from Treblinka. So, where are the effing train schedules detailing the transport of the deportees from Treblinka? The fact is that whether they are lost and haven't been found or have been destroyed, at this moment they don't exist. Gee, imagine that.
You should apologize for your weasel dodging the question of, "Where's the train schedules for trains carrying passengers outbound from Treblinka", but that's not likely to happen.
Just to keep you weasel dodging, here's the question again. "Where's the train schedules for trains carrying passengers outbound from Treblinka"? We know that they had to exist at one time so where are they?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 25, 2022 15:17:38 GMT
Nessie wrote: Predictably, Nessie weasel dodges. No train schedules for trains outbound from Treblinka. Clouds of bullshit but NO train schedules. The train schedules that I have linked to above, for trains that went to and from TII and Warsaw, Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice, which accounts for over 30% of trains and over 300,000 people are here; dirkdeklein.net/2016/09/13/amon-goth/kz-fahrplananordnung/commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timetable_to_Treblinka_from_Radom_district_September_1942.jpgen.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram#/media/File:Ostbahn_Krakau_shuttle_train_Warschau-Treblinka.jpgEach schedule shows the time the trains left the ghetto, when they arrived at TII, when they left TII and what time the trains arrived back at the ghetto. That means each schedule has the outbound train times and destination. I thought you would understand that, but obviously not. I have been showing you the schedules that are online, thinking you know what a trains schedule looks like and that you would be able to read them! Mattogno does not post the schedules he found, he instead references them; holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1&page_id=5"Concurrently, Polish prisoners arrived in Majdanek almost on a daily basis. A total of 110 transports of Polish inmates have been documented for this period." He does not say specifically where those transports came from, but he references what he found about Treblinka transports; "On May 13 the new arrivals included a convoy of 308 Jewish men who had been taken from Warsaw to Treblinka, and thence, after a selection, to Majdanek" "A few transports from Warsaw arrived in Lublin via Treblinka; a selection of the deportees had been carried out in Treblinka.โ "February 1943, 104 Jewesses were sent to Majdanek from Treblinka" "In March [1943], Globocnik and Wirth, the inspector of the โReinhardtโcamps, ordered selections to be performed on transports arriving in Sobibor and Treblinka, because Globocnik intended to recruit Jewish laborers for deployment in the Osti units in Majdanek. The Jewesses and Jews classified as โfit for laborโwere initially admitted into the Majdanek camp" If you want to see the actual schedules, you will need to contact the relevant archives to see what they have. Clearly they do exist, or else how have historians and Mattogno found out the transport details they reference? Again, I have linked you to the schedules that are online above, and shown you where historians and Mattogno have accessed archives to get details about transports. It is odd that you ask me for schedules, I answer you with the schedules available online and where the other schedules are kept, but you do not understand that answer. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 25, 2022 16:00:24 GMT
Nessie continues to weasel dodge. He claims that Mattogno found a train schedule but just "referenced it". Really? How do you know that? If you've seen that train schedule, why don't you link to it? In any event, that's for only one (1) train. Nobody is talking about the 30% of the trains that were on the Warsaw shuttle. It's about the 70% of the trains that left Treblinka for which there's NO record. There were at least 18-20 of those trains so why didn't Zabecki and his fellow Polish trainmen record them as leaving Treblinka with passengers? Why did he claim that only empty or goods trains left Treblinka? The fact is that trains carrying thousands of deportees are known to have left Treblinka. The fact that someone, either the Poles or the Soviets, by hiding or more likely destroying the outbound train records is evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp. People arrived at Treblinka, stayed there for a short period of time and left. Sometimes on the same train and others after a few days. Nessie is trying with no success to hide the fact that other than the trains on the Warsaw shuttle, records have been either lost or destroyed. The fact that the schedules for the shuttle trains still exist indicates that there was an effort to make it appear as though the Jews sent to Treblinka were murdered and not transferred on to alternate destinations. Wait and see though, folks, Nessie will continue to weasel dodge the fact that the outbound train records no longer exist and he absolutely cannot produce anything but excuses for their absence. No matter that there's proof that thousands of deportees left Treblinka, Nessie won't admit that there's no actual train schedules in existence for those trains.
PS. I see from a casual perusal of the Mattogno/Graf book about Majdanek that Nessie has resorted to his old trick of misattributing quotes to MG that are actually just MG recounting the official narrative of hoaxster historians. Nothing new from Nessie.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 25, 2022 16:32:58 GMT
Nessie continues to weasel dodge. He claims that Mattogno found a train schedule but just "referenced it". Really? How do you know that? How would he, or indeed historians, know about train transports, without having seen the train schedules? I have linked to every schedule I have seen. No, the schedules I have linked to are for multiple trains that went to TII from Warsaw, Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice and then returned. Except there are schedules for Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice that are online and the other ghetto records are in archives. From what is online, Zabecki recorded two trains that left with passengers. www.holocaustresearchproject.org/revolt/zabecki.html"18 August 1943, a transport of Jews โPJ 201" (32 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka. 8 September, transport โPJ 211" (31 wagons) was sent to Lublin, and on 17 September, transport โPJ 1025" (50 wagons) of Jews from Minsk Litewski was sent to Chelm (in fact to Sobibor)." His actual records are not online. I have shown you the schedules for trains that left TII for the ghettos at Warsaw, Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice. They are online. The other schedules are in archives. We know they exist, because historians have used them to construct the timelines of transports from ghettos to TII and Mattogno references some for transports of workers to Majdanek and Zabecki did record transports of people back out of TII. You are weasel dodging that you cannot show me a single schedule for a mass transport that left TII full of passengers and arrived at any other place. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 25, 2022 17:14:25 GMT
Well, my OS just crashed my post so I'll take this up later. Time for a nap attack.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 25, 2022 17:23:36 GMT
Well, my OS just crashed my post so I'll take this up later. Time for a nap attack. You need a nap.
You ask me for schedules, I show you schedules and where the other schedules are and how we know they are there, and you weasel dodge my answer and ask me again for schedules.
You need to explain why the schedules I have shown you are not schedules and how you know there are no schedules in the archives, when Mattogno and historians have accessed the archives and reported about transports.
EDIT - You did the same with GPR scans. You asked to be shown GPR scans, I linked you to where the GPR scans can be viewed on C S-C thesis, down to figure and page number and then you kept on asking to see the scans, even though I had shown you them.
There is something wrong with how you process information. You ask, I show you and you ask again. Your actions are bizarre.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 25, 2022 23:07:48 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie is frenetically weasel dodging and lying like a rug. I've specifically asked about a half dozen times for the train schedules for trains outbound from Treblinka. Yes, I know that 30% of those trains were on shuttle service. Your weasel dodge of constantly referring to the 30% of trains that were on shuttle service is supposed to be a smoke screen for having no answer for the remaining 70% of trains that went to Treblinka and have no schedules showing them leaving. That attempt at obfuscation is a FAIL. So are your other attempts to cover up the lack of train schedules for 70% of the trains that went to Treblinka such as the train that took an entire load of men, women and children from Treblinka to A-B or Runia Lunski's trainload of deportees. Of course you won't answer but again, where are the train schedules for the trains that left Treblinka after delivering deportees and weren't part of the shuttle service? Obviously you can't answer that. Admitting that those records were destroyed/hidden would be evidence that the claim of hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered at Treblinka is false. The testimony of the witnesses to people leaving has been proven true and just 20 witnesses have accounted for 15-20,000 deportees leaving Treblinka for alternate destinations. Nessie knows that the train schedules would blow a gaping hole in his death camp fantasy so isn't about to admit that they don't exist.
CS-C supposedly used GPR to scan a large area of Treblinka. If memory serves, she showed one photo of a GPR scan. Maybe a couple but she made no effort to show GPR scans that delineated the boundaries of the pits she allegedly found. She used electrical resistivity for that. As you've done with the train schedule question, you've claimed that a minor portion of what should have been a complete set of scans to be the complete scan of the area. CS-C did NOT show her GPR scans or offer any analysis of them. The question of why didn't CS-C show the complete GPR scans remains unanswered to this day.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 26, 2022 11:21:17 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie is frenetically weasel dodging and lying like a rug. I've specifically asked about a half dozen times for the train schedules for trains outbound from Treblinka. Yes, I know that 30% of those trains were on shuttle service. Your weasel dodge of constantly referring to the 30% of trains that were on shuttle service is supposed to be a smoke screen for having no answer for the remaining 70% of trains that went to Treblinka and have no schedules showing them leaving. That attempt at obfuscation is a FAIL. The train schedules that cover the ghettos at Warsaw, Lukow, Sedziszow, Szydlowiec and Kozienice and show the times trains left TII and when they arrived back at the ghettos, covers 30% of trains and over 300,000 people. You weasel dodge that alone drives a huge wedge in your claim TII was a transit camp. The other ghettos that sent Jews to TII cover the other 70% of records, which are not online and it is reasonable, based on other evidence from eyewitnesses, that like the trains we do have schedules for, they mostly returned from TII back to their originating station. A tiny number, about 1% of trains, went to Polish labour camps, mostly Majdanek, which according to Mattogno, has records. There is no cover up, those schedules are in ghetto archives, as that is how historians know about the transports from the ghettos to TII. I have answered you repeatedly, they are in ghetto archives or the archives of the labour camps in Poland which received transports from TII. The shuttle service applies to all the ghettos I have posted schedules for. The train leaves the town, arrives at TII, leaves TII and arrives back in the town. For example, the train from Lukow on the 28th August 1942; dirkdeklein.net/2016/09/13/amon-goth/kz-fahrplananordnung/Lukow leaves 10.44 Siedlce arrives 11.34, leaves 12.37 Treblinka arrives 14.52, leaves 17.22 Siedlce arrives 19.22, leaves 19.42 Lukow arrives 20.36 There were transports from Lukow on the 28th August and the 5th October and the 7th Nov en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Treblinka_extermination_campAs the Lukow ghetto was emptied, every month a train shuttled back and forth from Lukow to TII. The gaps are due to the camp being over-run under the command of Irmfried Eberl and a pause in transports as Franz Stangl took over and re-organised the camp. They must exist, or else how do historians know about all the ghetto transports? Some small ghettos emptied with one transport, others needed multiple transports, with Warsaw needing the most, so trains went back and forth on at times a daily basis. You are weasel dodging that Kulawy said his train went to Auschwitz and Auschwitz has a transport record of a trains arriving from Malkinia. You are weasel dodging my point that you ask for information, I provide it and then you lie and claim I have not provided it. Stop lying and start discussing the evidence I have provided. |
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