Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 22, 2022 18:27:44 GMT
Spielberg made the movie, "Swindler's List" so he's part of the hoax. How he effed up with the Treblinka deportees and let that cat out of the bag is unknown. As I said, probably because his film/interview crew who did the interviews didn't realize the importance of what the witnesses were saying. After Hunt got into the film archive it was too late to do anything about it. You were mistaken about witnesses from the Lanzmann film saying that deportees were transited through Treblinka. Well done for admitting your mistake. The actual answer is because those people do not evidence TII as a transit camp. They evidence worker selections. There is no hoax, what happened is evidenced. Wrong. At this moment in time, we do not know what is in the archives, regarding the records that correspond to what the witnesses said. Since you claim the witnesses are credible, why do you also want to see the records of their transports? That you dispute the witness claims about TII gassings, is not evidence it was not a death camp. Your claim about a lack of any physical evidence is dishonest. The witness transport evidence is for worker selections, which happened at all the death camps. You cannot evidence what did happen instead, you have no contemporaneous evidence from inside TII.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 22, 2022 19:09:29 GMT
Nessie wrote:
LOL! Nessie's attempt to paint Treblinka as a "death camp", a pure extermination camp has fallen on it's arse. His "evidence" exists only in his own mind. Like imaginary wood for his magic Jew barbeque and his mythical mystery machine that dug the nonexistent graves. What a hoot!
Suuuuuure, at this moment in time we don't know if interstellar travel is a possibility. What we do know is that right now, it's impossible. If you have those records, let's see them. Until you or someone else produces those records they don't exist.
Because we can then get an idea of how many people transited through Treblinka. Was it just the 15-20,000 claimed by the witnesses or was it more? Hunt said that all of the able bodied were sent to alternate destinations. How many was that?
Nessie does his cheap imitation of whistling past the graveyard. No, I don't dispute the claims made by the hoaxster witnesses. I point out their impossibilities and define why they are impossible. A brick pressure vessel as described by such as Rajchman and Bomba is impossible. Their claims to have seen such things are lies. Your attempt to rehabilitate such lies is a FAIL. Your claims of "evidence" and "selections" are just bullshit from your imagination.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 22, 2022 19:30:19 GMT
Nessie wrote: LOL! Nessie's attempt to paint Treblinka as a "death camp", a pure extermination camp has fallen on it's arse. His "evidence" exists only in his own mind. Like imaginary wood for his magic Jew barbeque and his mythical mystery machine that dug the nonexistent graves. What a hoot! I knew about the selection process at A-B and Sobibor, but not TII, until I saw the evidence for that. I now know the selection process took place at various death camps. That does nothing to alter TII was a death camp. It just means there was a selection process at more death camps than I knew about. In that case, until you produce records of regular mass transports back out of TII, they also do not exist. That is your standard, no record, no transport. The answer is none, since your standard is no record, no transport. That the witnesses say things you do not believe, does not therefore mean you have evidence of no gassings. It just means you do not believe any of the witnesses who worked inside TII. You cannot claim, therefore, mass transports. You need evidence of mass transports and not only is there none, you have admitted no record, no transport.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 22, 2022 20:05:39 GMT
Nessie wrote:
You have no credible evidence that Treblinka was a "death camp".
Yep, we have testimony from credible witnesses backed up by German records and records from the USHMM but there's no records for trains carrying passengers out of Treblinka. We know that trains DID leave Treblinka carrying passengers but there's no record of any passenger carrying trains leaving Treblinka. That's what I've been trying to tell you. Those records don't exist or can't be found. Offhand, I'd say that the Soviets made sure that no such records now exist. Glad to see that you agree.
(sigh) No, my standard is, no records no way to know how many deportees transited through Treblinka.
Uh-huh, just because the witnesses claim that the impossible happened is no reason for me not to believe them. Yeah, that's the ticket. Life in holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 22, 2022 20:15:12 GMT
Nessie wrote: You have no credible evidence that Treblinka was a "death camp". That is merely your biased opinion. There is corroborating evidence it was a death camp. Then I point out Mattogno did find records at Majdanek and there are archives for the other camps, which need to be searched. Your suggestion of a hoax is falling apart, with the Soviets missing records and then Speilberg blowing the whistle that there were some transports. I have been telling you for a long time now that the hoax you allege would be impossible to organise and coordinate. You have now admitted to two examples of where those supposedly coordinating the hoax have blown it. But you admit you don't know what records are or are not in the archives. What is evidenced, is occasional transports, which also happened at other death camps. Uh-huh, just because the witnesses claim that the impossible happened is no reason for me not to believe them. Yeah, that's the ticket. Life in holyhoax la-la land. [/quote] You interpret them literally, without taking into account how witnesses behave normally, which is dishonest and designed to support your argument from incredulity.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 22, 2022 20:40:57 GMT
What Nessie is maundering about doesn't make any sense. Mattogno found evidence that deportees did in fact leave Treblinka for Majdanek. He DIDN'T find any train records for that. Nobody has any unequivocal evidence that Treblinka was a death camp including Nessie.
Nessie claiming that "there was no hoax" because of Russia and Spielberg "blowing the whistle" on deportees being transited out of Treblinka makes zero sense. Then we have his inane claim that I don't know what exists in "archives". What does that mean? I don't know the contents of every archive in the world? What I do know is that at this point in time, nobody has or knows the location of the outbound train records for trains carrying passengers out of Treblinka e.g. they don't exist in the real world.
Yes, I DO think that your excuses for the lies of the alleged eyewitnesses to be bullshit. So would any other reasonable person.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 23, 2022 10:19:41 GMT
What Nessie is maundering about doesn't make any sense. Mattogno found evidence that deportees did in fact leave Treblinka for Majdanek. He DIDN'T find any train records for that. Nobody has any unequivocal evidence that Treblinka was a death camp including Nessie. Nessie claiming that "there was no hoax" because of Russia and Spielberg "blowing the whistle" on deportees being transited out of Treblinka makes zero sense. Then we have his inane claim that I don't know what exists in "archives". What does that mean? I don't know the contents of every archive in the world? What I do know is that at this point in time, nobody has or knows the location of the outbound train records for trains carrying passengers out of Treblinka e.g. they don't exist in the real world. Yes, I DO think that your excuses for the lies of the alleged eyewitnesses to be bullshit. So would any other reasonable person. I will make it simple for you, so you can understand;
1 - there IS evidence of TII as a death camp. You know that, you discuss that evidence constantly. Just because you do not believe the evidence does not mean there is no evidence.
2 - there IS evidence that there were some worker selections at TII, sending workers to labour camps in Poland.
3 - there are some uncorroborated claims of larger transports from TII, but with records at A-B showing transports from the nearby Malkinia camp, it is more likely those witnesses mixed up camps.
4 - there is NO evidence of regular mass transports back out of TII, which if it had happened, would leave evidence, especially since the smaller transports left evidence.
5 - there is NO evidence from inside TII of it functioning as a death camp. Stripping people of their property and sending it to Lublin is consistent with gassings, not resettlement.
In the real world, with people who do not fall for hoaxes and who follow what is evidenced over what is not evidenced, TII was a death camp, not a transit camp.
Oh, and by the way, evidence is from witnesses, documents, physical items etc, not arguments from disbelief.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 23, 2022 23:02:44 GMT
Nessie has gone full Klown. We have statements from some credible witnesses. There's a German record and the records from the USHMM that corroborate those statements. Nessie is claiming that Kulawy was mistaken about being in Treblinka because there's no record of he and the trainload of men, women and children arriving at A-B. There aren't any records for any of the deportees arriving at any destination save the one for 451 deportees arriving at Majdanek. The lack of transport records is what this thread is supposed to be about. Nessie is OK with a few deportees being "selected for work" but he draws the line at whole train loads, especially one that has children as passengers.
Theres's twenty witnesses who say that they left Treblinka via rail. It seems that they all left Treblinka on separate trains but since there are NO train records of anyone leaving Treblinka for alternate destinations there's no proof of that. However, that seems to be the case. At any rate there's proof that up to twenty (20) trains DID leave Treblinka with passengers and there's NO train schedules for any of those trains. Nessie claims that those are the only trains that left Treblinka with passengers but what evidence or proof does he have of that? Nothing. Zip, zero, nada.
Nessie wrote:
No, I don't "discuss the evidence". I give the reasons for why those testimonies are lies. Brick pressure vessels are an impossibility, a dragline with a 35 foot boom can't both dig and stockpile the ex from 12X30X50 meter pits and so on.
Bottom line, Nessie has no actual evidence of hundreds of thousands being murdered at Treblinka. He has the fantasies of his bogus witnesses along with Lukaszkiewcz's enumerated 304 cadavers and CS-C's handful of unidentified bone shards along with the holes she claims to have found. Where are her GPR scans? Oh, they disappeared and she used electrical resistivity to supposedly locate the holes. Holes that are insufficient to hold even 10% of the supposed 900,000 cadavers. In the real world, people don't fall for such bullshit as proof of mass murder.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 24, 2022 9:34:53 GMT
Nessie has gone full Klown. Turnagain starts his response with a logical fallacy, poisoning the well. He knows he has no evidence to back up his claim of regular mass transports of c850,000 back out of TII and the accommodation of those people elsewhere. So he has to start his response by abusing his opponent. He weasel dodges that those credible witnesses stated TII was a death camp. If he presented witnesses as credible in court, but they then said the opposite to what he claimed, he would be laughed out of the court! There are three claims of trains carrying children, none of which can be verified as having come from TII. Turnagain weasel dodges that. That is an assertion, since we do not know about the records for Budzyn and Poniatowa camps. There are records online of transports to TII from 5 different ghettos, including Warsaw, where trains stopped at TII and then returned to the ghetto. That means over 30% of trains have records we can see online, and that accounts to over 300,000 people. Historians have been able to construct timelines of trains to TII from ghettos all over eastern Europe. That proves there are more records that are not online. Because those records say what Turnagain does not want to hear, he pretends there is a lack of records, but everyone can see he is being dishonest. Until there is verification those trains left TII, they remain uncertain. The evidence that proves gassings took place, along with the mass theft of all of the passenger's property, is why only a few trains left with passengers. TII was no different to other death camps, some got selected to work. You weasel dodge the trains that left with passengers went to labour camps in Poland, not to be resettled in the east. Turnagain weasel dodges that when full trains left, they left evidence, from witnesses and/or records. Turnagin is playing semantic games to excuse he discusses the evidence for gassings, graves and cremations constantly. Here he goes again....! Your arguments from incredulity are logical fallacies. The Germans could easily build gas chambers and engineer around any pressure issues. They had excavators that could dig big pits. They could cremate on pyres using rails. You cherry pick the obviously flawed witness evidence and ignore that every single witness makes the same basic claim of deaths by asphyxiation in chambers, mass graves and cremations. Turnagain thinks his arguments from incredulity have merit and justify his claim of no gassings and belief in the mass transport and accommodation of c850,000 people, for which there is no evidence. In the real world, people do not fall for fallacies and believe in unevidenced fantasies.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 24, 2022 10:48:51 GMT
Jeezus H, but how many times do I have to tell you that while some of the witnesses, not all but some, said that they believed Treblinka to be an extermination facility but NOBODY, not one single, solitary witness claimed that they saw any mass murders take place. Why is that such a particularly difficult concept for you to understand? They believed the rumor but had no facts. Why is that seemingly simple concept so far beyond your ability to comprehend?
Then we have the fact that thousands of deportees were sent to Majdanek and the Lublin district. There is a record of one transport of ~400 arriving at Majdanek and NO train schedules that show trains coming from Treblinka. Why should it be any different at A-B? If you are going to speculate on the records of arrivals at the various camps then show us the effing records. Unless your trying to set up your old trick of morphing your speculations into "facts".
Then we have a real humdinger from Nessie:
If Nessie has any records for the outbound trains carrying passengers from Treblinka he should show them. Whining about the 30% of trains that were part of the shuttle service is just mindless bullshit.
Then we have Nessie claiming that he has proof of the mass gassing at Treblinka. He regularly claims that but he has no real evidence. Lots of foot stamping and shrieking but no evidence that proves mass murder. Foot stamping and shrieking continues about how I "discuss" his "evidence". Oh well.
Nessie continues with even more shrieking about his "logical fallacy" arguments. Tiresome.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 24, 2022 12:17:32 GMT
Jeezus H, but how many times do I have to tell you that while some of the witnesses, not all but some, said that they believed Treblinka to be an extermination facility but NOBODY, not one single, solitary witness claimed that they saw any mass murders take place. Why is that such a particularly difficult concept for you to understand? They believed the rumor but had no facts. Why is that seemingly simple concept so far beyond your ability to comprehend? What you weasel dodge, is your favourite witnesses all believe TII was a death camp. You like to present yourself as defence for the Nazis, but you are using witnesses who disagree with you. There are records at the Majdanek and A-B archives, as to where trains came from. Indeed, there are lots of surviving records of train transports. You weasel dodge that if there were regular mass transports back out of TII, not only would there be some surviving records, there would also be surviving witnesses. Instead, there are neither. Online records alone prove 30% of train left TII empty. Add in the archive records and all of the witnesses to empty trains leaving the camp, and there is proof the majority of trains left with no passengers. Stop using arguments from incredulity. Your disbelief is not a substitute for evidence.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 24, 2022 14:09:04 GMT
Nessie wrote: I just said that my "favorite witnesses" or at least some of them claimed that Treblinka was a death camp you brain dead fool. They believed a rumor but had no facts to back up that belief. What can't you understand about that? There wasn't and isn't anything to support the claim that Treblinka was a extermination facility. Are you actually claiming that train records exist at Majdanek for all of the deportees who were sent there from Treblinka? Let's see them or give a link to them.
Then we have more whining from Nessie about the 30% of trains outbound from Treblinka that were assigned to shuttle service. So effing what, Nessie? Claiming that a brick building of conventional construction methods can't be used as a pressure vessel is NOT an argument from incredulity. It's a proven fact. I've posted several videos of various containers such as railroad tank cars collapsing from atmospheric pressure. It's a well known and measurable phenomena. That a dragline with a ~35 foot boom CANNOT dig and stockpile the ex from a 12X30X50 meter pit isn't an argument from incredulity. It's a matter of trigonometry and quite easily shown. Claiming that those are instances of an argument from incredulity is beyond mindless drivel.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 24, 2022 14:40:54 GMT
Nessie wrote: I just said that my "favorite witnesses" or at least some of them claimed that Treblinka was a death camp you brain dead fool. They believed a rumor but had no facts to back up that belief. What can't you understand about that? There wasn't and isn't anything to support the claim that Treblinka was a extermination facility. There was the circumstantial evidence of not seeing anyone else sent to the camp, who was not selected for work. Their disappearance fitted with the gassing claims, they disappeared, because they were gassed. That is why the witnesses you say are credible, believed the gassing claims. After the war, no new evidence was found, such that they realised the rumours were wrong, so they continued to believe the gassing claims. So, they have good reason to believe gassings took place and your claim they evidence TII was a transit camp is wrong. I am claiming if the archives were searched, more records would be found. You know what. It means at least 30% of trains arriving at TII left with no passengers, which is corroborating circumstantial evidence to support the gassing claims and is inconsistent with transit camp claims. All that means is the Nazis worked out how to relieve pressure in the chambers and they either used a different excavator or the pits were not as big as claimed. Just because a witness states something that appears to not be possible, does not make it not possible. Witness descriptions are flawed, riddled with errors and are not a credible method for determining possibility. The construction and engineering capabilities at the time are what determine possibility.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 24, 2022 16:09:40 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Just what the hell does that have to do with your claim, "What you weasel dodge, is your favourite witnesses all believe TII was a death camp"? Well, nothing. You're just trying to cover up one idiotic claim with a more idiotic claim.
Here we are, back at the tired "what if" and "coulda woulda" schtick. Gee, "what if" the archives were searched then more records "could" be found. Nobody buys your "what ifs", "coulda woulda" or your silly-assed excuses for the lies of the so-called eyewitnesses and haven't for a long time if ever.
More of Nessie's "what if", "coulda woulda" and excuses for the lying POS who claim to have witnessed the gassing, burial, etc. at Treblinka. No sale, Nessie. Sell it down Fantasy lane in holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 24, 2022 16:22:15 GMT
Nessie wrote: Just what the hell does that have to do with your claim, "What you weasel dodge, is your favourite witnesses all believe TII was a death camp"? Well, nothing. You're just trying to cover up one idiotic claim with a more idiotic claim. The circumstantial evidence corroborates the witnesses who you say are credible and who claim TII was a death camp. You are the idiot, stating that witnesses who say the opposite of what you believe, are credible. Except historians, who have accessed the archives, have constructed timelines of transports. That is evidence there are transport records in the archives. Nobody buys your "what if" there are no records. Your "what if" is the moronic, what if the Nazis could not work out how to deal with pressure increases inside the chambers? No one buys that idiocy. Only fantasists demand belief in a massive conspiracy that was physically impossible to hoax and is not evidenced to have happened.
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