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Post by Turnagain on May 25, 2022 22:02:08 GMT
Nessie wrote:
If the kremas had gas tight doors that's evidence that they were used as air raid shelters. If they didn't have gas tight doors that's proof that they weren't used in conjunction with cyanide, Zyklon B.
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 25, 2022 22:54:26 GMT
For as much as Hoess's evidence is flawed and problematic, his main claims are all corroborated, so he was being truthful about mass gassings. By Vrba who produced the following exact plan of the gas chambers and Krema at Birkenau. Layout of the crematoria in Auschwitz II-Birkenau, Vrba–Wetzler report Of course these do not bear the slightest resemblance to any construction at Birkenau.
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Post by Turnagain on May 25, 2022 23:23:38 GMT
Jeff(numbers) wrote:
I replied:
Jeff then hightails it off into the sunset without answering my question. Hoess was tortured to obtain his confession. There's no doubt about that fact. Testimony that was derived from that confession was inadmissible. That's known as "the fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine, a term coined by SCOTUS member Felix Frankfurter back in the 1920s.
Hoess' testimony was considered "sensational" and was crucial to the myth of the holyhoax and it WAS "fruit of the poisonous tree". Jeff is probably aware of that doctrine so refuses to address the issue of the admissibility of Hoess' testimony. Of course the Nuremberg marsupial escapades didn't bother with such legal niceties. Their job was to put on a "good show" and punish/execute the eeevul Narzis they had in their clutches. Franz Zeiries had been wounded during his capture and died of his wounds before he could be hanged. He had "confessed" to gassing 65,000 Jews at Mauthausen so they hanged his dead body anyway as a demonstration of "justice served"...or something.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on May 26, 2022 8:59:36 GMT
Here's Nessie's laundry list from: holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html In rebuttal to his laundry list, here's my laundry list: codoh.com/library/Just do a proper search and click on it and Bob's your uncle. You claimed "No links, no documents." I showed you links, talked you though how to recognise the links and what to do with them and posted a copy of the document they link to. Please explain why, when you request links to documents and I provide links to document, do you not understand what you have been shown?
You are able to post links, so you must know what a link is. Surely you know what a documents is, so what is your problem?
Is it brain overload on your part, that I can link to lots of documents and you cannot cope with that amount of information? You call links to lots of evidence "laundry lists", which suggests you struggle when presented with lots of information. If you can confirm your inability to deal with lots of information, I will link to each document individually.
How about we start with the document I linked to and posted about pouring concrete in the gas chamber at Krema V.
"On Tuesday 2nd March 1943, the Riedel foreman... daily report mentions under point 5 (in the room with the windows): “Fußboden Aufschüttung auffülen, stampfen und Fußboden betonieren im Gasskammer / ground covered with hard fill, tamped down and floor concreted in gas chamber”.
Evidnece to prove a gas chamber was being constructed in Krema V in March 1943.
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Post by Nessie on May 26, 2022 9:02:48 GMT
Nessie wrote: If the kremas had gas tight doors that's evidence that they were used as air raid shelters. If they didn't have gas tight doors that's proof that they weren't used in conjunction with cyanide, Zyklon B. Gas tight doors are potential evidence of a bomb shelter, delousing chamber or homicidal gas chamber. To find out which, we need to look at the other evidence. Documents record the construction of undressing rooms, gas chambers and ovens for mass cremations in the Kremas. Hoess and everyone who ever worked at a Krema states it was used for homicidal gassings. Logically and evidentially, we now know it was for homicidal gassings.
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Post by Nessie on May 26, 2022 9:05:39 GMT
For as much as Hoess's evidence is flawed and problematic, his main claims are all corroborated, so he was being truthful about mass gassings. By Vrba who produced the following exact plan of the gas chambers and Krema at Birkenau. Layout of the crematoria in Auschwitz II-Birkenau, Vrba–Wetzler report Of course these do not bear the slightest resemblance to any construction at Birkenau. Not just by Vrba, by every single person who worked inside a Krema and documents recording the construction of undressing rooms, gas chambers and ovens for mass cremations. That is a "rough ground plan" of how the Kremas were roughly laid out.
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Post by Nessie on May 26, 2022 9:08:16 GMT
..... Hoess' testimony was considered "sensational" and was crucial to the myth of the holyhoax .... Where is the evidence the Hoess evidence was "crucial" to the mass gassings at A-B? I asked been-there that and he has gone quiet.
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Post by Turnagain on May 26, 2022 9:18:54 GMT
Oh yes, krema V. Isn't that the one that had tubs of coal (coke?) burning inside the "gas chamber" to make the room warm enough for the Zyklon B to outgas after it was thrown through a window? The one where the gas chamber was ventilated by "convection" e.g. the doors were opened and the room aired out with natural winds/breezes? I don't have much interest in A-B but I recall reading that fantasy.
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Post by Turnagain on May 26, 2022 9:24:45 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Are you saying that Hoess' testimony was just a minor detail in the establishment of the holyhoax narrative? That the holyhoax narrative was a separate issue from Hoess' confession?
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 26, 2022 9:33:55 GMT
That is a "rough ground plan" of how the Kremas were roughly laid out. Nonsense, this drawing has no resemblance of how the kremas were laid out. this Layout of the crematoria in Auschwitz II-Birkenau, Vrba–Wetzler report verses the reality It is not rough it is fictitious.
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Post by Turnagain on May 26, 2022 9:50:34 GMT
Nazgul wrote:
But...but...but Nazgul, everyone knows that witnesses can make mistakes or use emotive language in their descriptions. Vrba drew his plans from memory which was obviously faulty but his "rough ground plan" is good enough to prove that there were undressing rooms, a gas chamber and crematoria.
How's that for a Nessie type rebuttal, Nazgul?
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Post by 𝝥𝝰𝘇𝗴𝝻𝝸 on May 26, 2022 10:56:33 GMT
Nazgul wrote: But...but...but Nazgul, everyone knows that witnesses can make mistakes or use emotive language in their descriptions. Vrba drew his plans from memory which was obviously faulty but his "rough ground plan" is good enough to prove that there were undressing rooms, a gas chamber and crematoria. How's that for a Nessie type rebuttal, Nazgul? The post was a reaction to Nessies comment, I will divert the discussion of that Vrba plan to another thread more convenient so we can continue the discussion on the Kommandant. I have made the thread to discuss this rodoh.info/post/8179/thread
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Post by been_there on May 26, 2022 14:11:11 GMT
When I was first discovering all the impossibilities, inconsistencies and obvious nonsense in the holocaust narrative, particularly it’s star witness, I innocently discussed it at work with a few of my closest colleagues.
I say innocently as I assumed an honest and open discussion would not be misintepreted, and I gullibly assumed my work friends — who were honest, decent, intelligent people — would also be as amazed as I was by the obvious inconsistencies.
I remember one conversation with clearly the most intelligent of all of us in my department. I was relating what I was discovering about the obviously non-credible contradictions and inconsistencies — and now acknowledged falsities — in Höß’s Nuremberg testimony and interviews. He recognised the truth of what I was relating but defensively dismissed it by asking: “so what? You don’t think the Holocaust relies on just one witness testimony do you?”
I replied that YES it DID back then in 1946. I explained that those in the dock at Nuremburg had initially been doubting the allegations. Their doubt was destroyed by Höß’s appearance as a defence witness for Kaltenbrunner. And that forever after, Höß’s coerced confession was referred to, to convince any other doubters both there at Nuremberg and worldwide.
My work-colleague didn’t like hearing that, looked visibly annoyed and chose to disregard this fact. I.e. he experienced the emotional discomfort we all experience when having our internal map of reality contradicted by external reality. I.e. cognitive dissonanser
.. .. .. .. .. Concerning Höß, a fascinating discussion has been going on over at the non-skeptics forum recently.
A participant named Gibson raised the question regarding how H-believers reconcile the obvious inconsistencies and self-contradictions within the testimony given by Rudolph Höß on different dates, concerning the alleged Jew-genocide and its timeline provided.
None of the believers except Nick Terry have anything useful to contribute. Most choosing to indulge in the usual H-believer response of ad hominem and snide put downs for daring to ask difficult questions.
And Nick Terry’s extremely erudite attempts at making sense of the discrepancies is ironically further proof the whole narrative is a collosal deception. As he can not convincingly do it. Mr. Terry’s replies are getting demolished by Gibson.
Check it out. ... ... ... ... ... ...
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Post by Nessie on May 26, 2022 14:26:22 GMT
Oh yes, krema V. Isn't that the one that had tubs of coal (coke?) burning inside the "gas chamber" to make the room warm enough for the Zyklon B to outgas after it was thrown through a window? The one where the gas chamber was ventilated by "convection" e.g. the doors were opened and the room aired out with natural winds/breezes? I don't have much interest in A-B but I recall reading that fantasy. There is other documentary evidence gas chambers were constructed inside Krema V.
Link to document recording an order of 13 February 1943 on “12 gas tight doors approx. 30/40” Kremas IV and V;
Link to orders for, a delivery note and fitting of "12 gas tight doors” for Kremas IV and V;
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Post by Nessie on May 26, 2022 14:28:06 GMT
Nessie wrote: Are you saying that Hoess' testimony was just a minor detail in the establishment of the holyhoax narrative? That the holyhoax narrative was a separate issue from Hoess' confession? No. His was an important admission, but it was not an admission on which all the rest of the evidence hung, not was it the only witness evidence.
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