Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 14, 2022 13:32:36 GMT
Nessie wrote:
That has absolutely nothing to do with me supposedly claiming that a witness must either tell all the truth or tell all lies. Nessie weasel dodges again. Your claim is asinine and you know it and you try to cover that up with off topic accusations. Your slimy little trick doesn't fly, Nessie.
No, there's evidence that deportees were transported to alternate destinations. Your claim that those deportees somehow "don't count" is bullshit. As the RSHA replied to Koherr, the Jews were being sent to the Lublin DISTRICT and that is precisely where the witnesses who left Treblinka claimed to have went. Your claim that there's evidence only for Treblinka being a death camp IS nothing but bullshit.'
More bullshit from Nessie. Kurt Gerstein was an eyewitness who claimed that a diesel engine was used to gas the Jews. Rajchman claimed that a vacuum was used to asphyxiate Jews as did Gley.
That is consistent with deportees being sent to alternate destinations. As far as their being sent to the "East", prove that deportees WEREN'T sent east. Claiming that deportees were never sent east of Lublin is idiotic. Just about as idiotic as your demand that revisionists prove where the deportees all went.
You are ignoring the fact that there isn't room for the graves and their stockpiles of ex under the investigatory barriers. You even came up with a fantasy about the ex being hauled away to never-never land only to be magically returned to Treblinka when it became necessary to fill the empty graves.
You apparently forgot that "dragline" is the American term for a "seilbagger", an "excavator" or "digger" used by the witnesses. Historians, archaeologists and websites all agree that the M&H draglines were the equipment to dig the graves. YOU are the only person who claims that some unknown machine of unknown make and model was used to dig the graves and you began doing that only after I had pointed out that the M&H draglines were too small to excavate the graves without auxiliary equipment. Stuff your, "Quit lying" bullshit.
You've debunked jack squat. Of course there's evidence that the Germans were coerced. Hoess, for example. Then we have other Germans such as Mengele and that SS officer who denied the atrocities attributed to the Germans. Goering denied the hoax amongst others. Your claim that the Germans gave testimony of their own free will is bullshit.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Feb 14, 2022 14:10:23 GMT
What kinds of evidence are you looking for ? Eyewitness from someone who worked inside the camp or Krema. Documents, physical items, photos, archaeological evidence pertaining to those places. That you have to ask proves how clueless you are about evidencing. So someone just has to say I was there and thats it? We already have alot of documents that show its hoax as well as physical evidence of A-B and the AR camps. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 14, 2022 14:27:49 GMT
A very good question indeed, mrolonzo. Did any of these so-called eyewitnesses actually spend any time in Treblinka? The witnesses who transited through Treblinka told reasonably coherent stories but the witnesses such as Bomba and Rajchman are all over the place with their descriptions of the camp and it's operations. Hoaxer witnesses uniformly describe their mistreatment by the Germans while the witnesses who transited through Treblinka make no mention of any beatings or torture at all.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 14, 2022 15:39:04 GMT
Nessie wrote: That has absolutely nothing to do with me supposedly claiming that a witness must either tell all the truth or tell all lies. Nessie weasel dodges again. Your claim is asinine and you know it and you try to cover that up with off topic accusations. Your slimy little trick doesn't fly, Nessie. Name and quote a witness who worked inside TII who you accept told the truth. Those people are witnesses to selections, most of whom went to work at Majdanek, in Lublin. That does not make TII a transit camp. It makes TII just like the other camps with gas chambers, whereby some people were selected to work. Gerstein said exhaust from an engine was used, he just had a different engine. Rajchman claimed air was pumped out, not that a vacuum was created and that did not work, so an engine was used. Where did Heinrich Gley say a vacuum was used? Those are differences in detail, the process is still the same, with an engine and a chamber. The transports from TII went south to Majdanek and west to Budzyn or Poniatowa camps. If you have evidence of transports east, it is up to you to produce it, but you don't. I refuse to believe what is not evidenced and you are being idiotic believing what you cannot evidence. Geophysics, witnesses and circumstantial evidence, evidence mass graves. You have nothing to evidence no mass graves were dug there, instead you use arguments from incredulity. I do not believe your claim that the Germans could not dig big pits and find somewhere to put the stockpile. You should base your calculations on the geophysics. The pits next to the memorial were each around 24m long, by 17m wide by at least 4m deep. If they extend under the memorial, make them 50m long, 17m wide and say 5m deep. There were five such pits. I say those pits plus stockpile would fit into the 2 hectare part of the camp the 1945 survey found to have disturbed ground. Your argument from incredulity, that you cannot work it out, therefore it did not happen, is bullshit. Your use of fallacious arguments is debunked. You have no evidence a Nazi who worked inside an AR camp was coerced. You mentioned Heinrich Gley, who was never convicted and gave evidence of what happened at Belzec. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 14, 2022 17:16:36 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie frantically weasel dodges some more. That has absolutely nothing to do with your claim that I consider witnesses to either tell all lies or all truth. That's what you said that I do so let's see you substantiate that.
And the deportees who transited through Treblinka could have been representative of all deportees. You have NO, zip, zero, nada PROOF of gas chambers, mass graves or cremations. All you have is bullshit. If you have proof then let's see it. Stuff your so-called "evidence".
Gerstein said that a diesel engine was used to gas the Jews.
I've quoted what Rajchman said about pumping the air out of the alleged gas chambers often enough. You're just plain lying.
That's bullshit and you know it. Besides which, you have NO proof that gas chambers even existed. As I said, stuff what you call "evidence" and either show some proof or give it a rest.
NO! If you have proof that no Jews were sent east of the Lublin district then let's see it. If you want to know, "Where did they gooooo?" then I want to know, "Where didn't they gooooooo?".
Screw your "evidence". Show some proof of your claims. Neither do you have an answer for your fantasy about the ex being hauled away from Treblinka to some unknown destination and then being hauled back when the decision was made to empty the graves and cremate the cadavers.
BTW, just how many 17X27 meter pits did CS-C claim to have found? Why didn't she show the GPR scans of those alleged pits? Why didn't she ever return to Treblinka as part of an "ongoing project".
That a dragline with about a 35 foot long boom and a clamshell can't dig a 12X30X50 meter pit without auxiliary equipment such as trucks or wagons is a FACT, Nessie, not a supposition or a suggestion and hasn't a damned thing to do with what I can "work out". Little boys don't ride their tricycles to the moon.
Suuuuure, it's fallacious that Hoess was tortured for his confession. Mengele didn't deny the atrocities attributed to him. Goering didn't deny the hoax. The German Treblinka witnesses volunteered their testimony with no threat of legal proceedings against them. They just voluntarily took the witness stand and loudly and proudly said, "Yep, we done it an' we're glad we did it".
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Post by Nessie on Feb 14, 2022 18:59:11 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie frantically weasel dodges some more. That has absolutely nothing to do with your claim that I consider witnesses to either tell all lies or all truth. That's what you said that I do so let's see you substantiate that. I just have, you cannot name a witness who worked at TII and told anything truthful about the camp. If everyone who was sent to TII went on to other camps to work, then the camp population would have been massive. So, it would be easy to evidence those massive camps. How childish! Which is not significantly different to a petrol engine being used. I know you have quoted Rajchman, he did not use the word vacuum. What about Gley? Whether it was steam, pumping the air out, a vacuum or exhaust fumes, all were starving the people inside of oxygen. Those are minor differences. The proof is from the lack of evidence. The Nazis regarded the Jews as the enemy, they registered and tracked them and there is no record of mass transports east of Lublin. There are also no witnesses and no massive camps to accommodate all of those people. Your fallacious argument that because you cannot work out how they dig the graves and stored the ex, it did not happen, is just an illogical argument. You have dodged that the smaller graves C S-C found would fit. Your fallacious argument is that because you cannot work out how they dug the graves and stored the ex, it did not happen. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 15, 2022 6:15:24 GMT
Nessie makes an accusation: Of course I make no such claims. Dismissing the entire testimony of a witness over a trivial mistake is asinine. Here's Nessie's current weasel dodge: Whether I believe the hoaxster lies about Treblinka is irrelevant. Nessie weasel dodges his accusation that I either have to believe everything or believe nothing from any witness. One of the deportees said that he was sent from Treblinka to "another death camp", Majdanek. Was Majdanek a "death camp"? No, we now know that it wasn't. That doesn't mean that I'm going to dismiss everything that he said as a lie. IOW, just another lie from Nessie that he refuses to address. Nessie begins to sputter. Which camps are you talking about? One poster said that there were over 600 camps in the "East" so why would their population be "massive"? Yes, it is quite childish that while you have no proof of any of your claims you demand that everyone believe you. Yes, it wouldn't make much difference how quickly the hermetically sealed gas chamber collapsed whether it was from the exhaust of a diesel engine or a gasoline engine. However, a well tuned diesel engine doesn't produce lethal exhaust while a gasoline engine does. The British Journal of Industrial Medicine showed that even a poorly running diesel took hours to kill even some of the test animals. Nessie continues to sputter: Nessie employs the magic word principle. "Joe Smith in car number 36 crosses the finish line first" said the race announcer. Nessie claims that the announcer didn't use the magic word, "won", so Joe Smith didn't win the race. Yessir, those magic words will get ya' every time. Yep, doesn't make any difference whether people die in a gas explosion or have an atomic bomb dropped on them. They all get blown up. Makes sense in holyhoax la-la land.
Really? You have the list of names of Jews who were gassed? Gee, who knew? Then you have ALL of the records of truck and train movements in Europe during WW II? If that's the case, where did the records of trains leaving Treblinka go? Nobody can seem to find any records except for the trains that returned to Warsaw. You're apparently claiming that there were no camps east of A-B. How about the Jews who were marched to alternate destinations? You are right about the lack of evidence, though. You have none about where the Jews could have possibly gone. Yep, I confess that I can't work out how the M&H draglines dug the graves and how the ex was moved. I don't believe in magic and in holyhoax la-la land magic is a viable means of accomplishing seemingly impossible tasks. Of course the Jews would say that it was a miracle, a more acceptable word for "magic". There were lots of miracles/magic during the holyhoax so your claim that the M&H dragline dug the graves and the ex was temporarily sent to some unknown location was just a manifestation of that type of magic/miracles. Only one problem. I don't believe in magic.
It would also take some magic to get over 700,000 cadavers to fit into CS-C's little "disturbed ground" areas.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 15, 2022 9:32:10 GMT
Nessie makes an accusation: Of course I make no such claims. Dismissing the entire testimony of a witness over a trivial mistake is asinine. Here's Nessie's current weasel dodge: Whether I believe the hoaxster lies about Treblinka is irrelevant. Nessie weasel dodges his accusation that I either have to believe everything or believe nothing from any witness. One of the deportees said that he was sent from Treblinka to "another death camp", Majdanek. Was Majdanek a "death camp"? No, we now know that it wasn't. That doesn't mean that I'm going to dismiss everything that he said as a lie. IOW, just another lie from Nessie that he refuses to address. I am addressing it. There is no one who worked inside TII who you believe anything he said. You cherry pick some deportee evidence, as you have just admitted, ignoring Majdanek was one of the AR camps and like A-B, it was a labour camp that was also used for mass killings. If there were 600 camps with a population of c2.5 million Jews in 1944, east of Poland, there would be evidence of that. Think of the resources needed to guard, accommodate, feed and clothe so many people. The evidence I have is sufficient to prove my claims. You do not even have any evidence. You are dodging all are deaths by asphyxiation inside chambers. Only the details vary. That is like all witnesses agreeing a rifle was used, by they vary as to what type. Pumping air out so people crammed into a small space is not the same as a vacuum and there would be no pressure issues. You are dodging you said Gley made a claim, but you cannot show where. Death by asphyxiation inside a chamber is what every witness said happened. You have no evidence of mass transports from TII east. Just because you don't believe it, does not therefore mean it did not happen. Your argument is an obvious logical fallacy, obvious to everyone except you. Your inability to spot your use of that logical fallacy is why you are doomed to always be fooled by the denier hoax. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 15, 2022 10:47:47 GMT
Nessie wrote:
So? What the hell does that have to do with me either believing everything a witness says or disbelieving all of the testimony? Actually you're trying to add qualifiers to your statement to weasel dodge your initial accusation. The fact remains that I DON'T either believe all of the testimony or disbelieve everything as you've accused me. Here is your original accusation:
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Gee, do ya' mean like the Soviet records and testimony about how the Germans were responsible for Katyn? Yes, I'm sure that the ever so honorable Soviets would be the first to present exculpatory evidence for the Germans. No doubt about it. Your lack of records mean jack squat, Nessie. You can't even produce the outbound train records from Treblinka and it's KNOWN that people did leave Treblinka for other destinations.
Your claim that you have sufficient evidence to provide incontrovertible proof that the holyhoax occurred as advertised is the rankest bullshit.
You can't prove that gas chambers even existed let alone let alone how many were asphyxiated by lack of oxygen.
Technically it would be called a "partial vacuum" since that is all that would be necessary to collapse the chamber. Your claim that there would have to be a total hard vacuum in the chamber before anyone would suffocate is idiotic. Nothing new about that, though.
I didn't say that I did. Neither do you have any proof that Jews WEREN'T transported east. Your claim that there's no records for Jews being transported east so let's see the records of all transports in Europe.
Nessie can't comprehend the definition of a fallacy of incredulity so continues to incontinently shriek, "Logical fallacy, logical fallacy". What I can spot is the use of magic to accomplish seemingly impossible tasks. You claim that mass graves of certain dimensions were dug and the ex temporarily moved to some unknown location and then later moved back to Treblinka. How was that done if not by magic? No trucks, carts or trains were involved in hauling the ex away. Nobody seems to know where the temporary location was. How it got back to Treblinka is a mystery. If not accomplished by magic then explain how that was done, Nessie.
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Post by Nessie on Feb 15, 2022 12:47:19 GMT
Nessie wrote: So? What the hell does that have to do with me either believing everything a witness says or disbelieving all of the testimony? Actually you're trying to add qualifiers to your statement to weasel dodge your initial accusation. The fact remains that I DON'T either believe all of the testimony or disbelieve everything as you've accused me. Here is your original accusation: . OK, so why can you not name a single witness who worked inside TII who accept as telling the truth about anything they saw there? The SU collapsed in 1992 and most of the camps would have been in Baltic, Ukrainian and Belorussian territory, so where is the evidence from those places that c2.5 million people were there in 1944? Mattogno found records at Majdanek of transports from TII and Belzec. The archives for Budzyn and Ponitowa have not been checked, as far as I know. So, a few records exist for the transport of up to 9000 people, but no records exist for the transport of the other c840,000 from TII and from any other camp to the east. Moving c2.5 million people east with no records is not credible. Only your opinion, not shared by any academic. I have made no such claim, you liar. I have pointed out a "partial vacuum" could work and that would not mean the same pressure issues. The evidence is that it did not work because people were left alive and it took hours. So exhaust fumes were used as no one lived and it took minutes. The proof of no mass transports east is from 1- the total lack of any evidence of such transports, which if they had happened, would leave evidence AND 2 - the evidence of gassings, which is why there were no mass transports east. The argument from incredulity is where because someone cannot believe the claim made, they state the claim is false. You do that all the time, with your boy cycling to the moon analogy. Because there is missing information and the descriptions are poor, we do not how, in detail, the gassings etc were achieved. You have read what is claimed and announced it is too incredible for you to believe. That is you using the argument from incredulity. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 15, 2022 18:22:02 GMT
Nessie wrote:
There's Nessie's idiotic accusation for all to see. He's still frantically weasel dodging what he said.
LMAO! Nessie shrieks, "fallacy of incredulity" until he wears the spots out on his keyboard and now solemnly intones that, "Moving c2.5 million people east with no records is NOT CREDIBLE". You can't make this [excrement] up.
How about Nick Kollerstrom? Oh well, it doesn't seem to penetrate that the lack of evidence for the holyhoax is the contention of revisionists.
There isn't any evidence of people dying from being placed in a vacuum. We have the word of Bomba and Rajchman. You know, the guy who declared blood to be flammable? Not believing such sterling characters is, of course, a "fallacy of incredulity".
Nessie can't even produce the outbound train records from Treblinka yet demands that we believe that his claim of "no records" applies to the deportees sent east. Giddoutahere!
Right, you have no explanation for how an event is claimed to have occurred but if you don't believe it you're guilty of a fallacy of incredulity. Yep and the little boy rode his tricycle to the moon. Life in holyhoax la-la land.
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Post by Nessie on Feb 15, 2022 19:33:41 GMT
Nessie wrote: There's Nessie's idiotic accusation for all to see. He's still frantically weasel dodging what he said. I am not dodging anything. You are dodging responding to my point that you cannot name a single person who worked inside an AR camp or Krema who you say told the truth about anything that happened there. There is a difference between what is not physically possible, like a boy cycling to the moon or transporting and accommodating c2.5 million people without leaving any evidence and what is physically possible, like building a gas chamber or digging a big pit. The exception that proves the rule. The way they describe what they saw, is not a credible method for determining if something happened. Your argument that it is, is logically flawed. The Warsaw Shuttle train is a record that covers about 30% of all the trains that left TII. Zabecki recorded other departures. Mattogno found a record at Majdanek. We do not know what else is at other ghettos and camps that sent trains to and received trains from TII. You have NOTHING that documents transports to the east. Gassings, graves and pyres are physically possible. You admitted that and said it was how those actions were described that made them impossible, with is a logically flawed claim. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 17, 2022 1:35:21 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie continues to frantically weasel dodge his idiotic accusation. Here's what he said: Then we have from Nessie:
More idiocy from Nessie. Nick Kollerstrom is the single, solitary and only academic ever in this world who disputed the holyhoax. Can you say "Art Butz", Nessie? Professor Faurisson? Nothing except the 4.39 million Jews who were drawing reparations from Germany as of 1984. Gee, where did those Jews come from? Why didn't the Soviets present records of their killing all of the Polish officers and intellectuals? They had plenty of documents and even testimony by Germans that the eeevul Narzis were the ones who perpetrated that little atrocity. Nessie is asked to produce the outbound train records from Treblinka but weasel dodges with his claim that he has 30% of them. Right, and 70% no longer exist. They apparently fall into the "don't count" category so Nessie can wail, "Where did they goooooo?". |
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Post by Nessie on Feb 17, 2022 9:56:28 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie continues to frantically weasel dodge his idiotic accusation. Here's what he said: You are dodging the context, which was workers in the AR camps and A-B Kremas and how when asked to name and quote a witness who worked there who told the truth, at least in part, you cannot. In the past, there are academics, who to their shame, have fallen for the same arguments from incredulity that you have. The vast majority of academics can see through the hoax and how it is based on fallacious arguments and is not evidenced. There is no academic now who has fallen for the denier arguments. I am still waiting for the evidence of hundreds of thousands of those claiming reparations, that they were transited through the AR camps and were settled in the east. With such a huge number of people, it would be easy to find many witnesses. You constantly dodge that it the AR camps were transit camps, it would be easy to prove, because of the volume of evidence such massive transports would leave behind. The Jews claiming reparations came from survivors and their offspring, in particular the many who escaped or were allowed to emigrate prior to 1942. encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/remaining-jewish-population-of-europe-in-1945"In 1950, the Jewish population of Europe was about 3.5 million." For all the Nazis killed millions of Jews, millions also managed to survive, by either escaping, or because they were used for labour, or because they managed to hide and some were even used as hostages. The Warsaw document accounts for about 30%, because about 30% of all transports to and from TII were from Warsaw. Then then other 70% is made up from the other ghettos that transported Jews to TII. It is from the ghetto records that historians have been able to put numbers to the amount of transports to the AR camps, as each ghetto was closed down. |
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Post by Nessie on Feb 17, 2022 10:04:03 GMT
Been-there has admitted that evidence is important; rodoh.info/thread/290/misinformation-fake-news"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidenceโ I pointed out that meant the denier claim that the AR camps were transit camps that sent well over a million people to be resettled elsewhere can be dismissed. I posted replies in that thread, which, since they challenge his desired, protected narrative, have been removed and I cannot post there any more. Been-there does that a lot and censors replies that challenge him and he constantly runs from the debate. |
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