Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 13, 2022 19:23:59 GMT
Nessie is back to shrieking, "You lie, you lie". He wrote: Nobody mentioned any deliveries of firewood and there are NO maps of Treblinka that show a woodlot. IOW, there would have to be just in time deliveries for wood necessary to cremate the daily quota of cadavers. It's an either or situation. Either there was a woodlot for storing the wood shipments or there were on just in time deliveries. So how did the firewood get to Treblinka? Trucks? Horse and wagon? Trains are out because that would require a woodlot. Why was everyone so silent about the wood supply? It would take about 500 tons of wood per cremation, 2,500X200kg of firewood per cremation and that's a low-ball figure. Then we have the pile of bodies. Rajchman said that at least some of the cadavers were cut into pieces that the SS operator dropped on the Jews carrying the cadavers to the barbeque. It's claimed that the grate was built 50 or 70 cm off the ground. Say 2.5 feet. Then we have 2,500 cadavers or pieces of cadavers stacked on the grate. At 25 layers of cadavers at 6 inches per layer that would equal 12.5 feet of cadavers if they were piled in a square. Rajchman claimed that the stack of bodies tapered so the stack would be at least 15 feet tall. Add the 2.5 feet from the grate and the top layer would be somewhere between 17.5-18 feet high. Rajchman also claimed that two working Jews took a hand and a leg each and threw the cadaver on top of the pile. This leads to the absolutely ludicrous scenario of Jews throwing not only bits and pieces of cadavers but whole cadavers getting sailed with unerring accuracy to the top of a 17-18 foot high pile of cadavers that was 30 meters long. Oh, wait a minute! Rajchman was just exaggerating or engaging in a bit of hyperbole. Actually he wrote that in his book so had time for sober reflection but nevermind. Just curious but do you actually believe such mindless claptrap? Even more curious, do you expect other people to believe it? The reason why people believe gassings, graves and cremations, is because they are evidenced to have happened. Those people do not fall for logical fallacies like you do.
Why do you believe c2.5 million people were not gassed and were being accommodated somewhere, when there is no evidence of that happening? You have no contemporaneous evidence from the AR camps or Kremas that something else happened inside those places and the people sent there, left.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 13, 2022 19:41:19 GMT
Nessie wrote:
What you're calling a "logical fallacy" is the written testimony by an alleged eyewitness. That's what's written in, "The Last Jew of Treblinka, a Survivor's Memories" by Chil Rajchman. Why are you calling Rajchman's book a "logical fallacy"?
How many times do you have to be told that since the Jews weren't murdered in the AR camps I don't give a shit where they went? For all I care they could have boarded a mother ship and headed off to Alpha Centauri. That's at least a scenario as reasonable as the claim that they were gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque in Treblinka.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 13, 2022 19:46:51 GMT
Nessie wrote: What you're calling a "logical fallacy" is the written testimony by an alleged eyewitness. That's what's written in, "The Last Jew of Treblinka, a Survivor's Memories" by Chil Rajchman. Why are you calling Rajchman's book a "logical fallacy"? I am not calling his testimony a logical fallacy. I am calling your argument from incredulity about his claims a logical fallacy. That just proves you are not genuine and are just out to spread hate. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 13, 2022 20:07:35 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Lemme' see if I have this straight. You're claiming that everything that Rajchman wrote is a factual account of what happened to him and what he observed at Treblinka? Is that what you're saying?
Uh-huh, I'm "out to spread hate". Next I'll be a (gasp) RAAAAAAYCISSSSSSSSS!
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 13, 2022 20:13:01 GMT
Nessie wrote: Lemme' see if I have this straight. You're claiming that everything that Rajchman wrote is a factual account of what happened to him and what he observed at Treblinka? Is that what you're saying? Uh-huh, I'm "out to spread hate". Next I'll be a (gasp) RAAAAAAYCISSSSSSSSS! Rajchman wrote an account that was factual, that there were gassings, graves and cremations, but there were times when he exaggerated, used emotive descriptives, made mistakes etc.
That you boast you do not care what happened and you are only interested in thinking up reasons to call Jews liars, proves you are anti-Semitic and are only interested in spreading hate for Jewish people.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 13, 2022 20:46:04 GMT
Right, as I said in a different thread, you claim that Rajchman told the truth about Treblinka except when he lied. You can try to dress it up with "what ifs" and "exaggerations" but you can't take it anywhere. Rajchman lied about Treblinka being a murder facility.
Yeah, generally I don't like Jews. What's the matter with that? Any law saying that I have to kiss a Jews butt?
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Feb 13, 2022 21:36:25 GMT
...Arguments from credulity are baseless... So why do you rely on such arguments? I dont. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 14, 2022 9:06:38 GMT
Right, as I said in a different thread, you claim that Rajchman told the truth about Treblinka except when he lied. You can try to dress it up with "what ifs" and "exaggerations" but you can't take it anywhere. Rajchman lied about Treblinka being a murder facility. Yeah, generally I don't like Jews. What's the matter with that? Any law saying that I have to kiss a Jews butt? You think witnesses either tell the truth about everything, or they lie about everything. In the real work, it is not as simple as that. I do not think Rajchman has out and out lied about what he saw, but he has embellished his testimony. The only evidence is that TII was a death camp and there is no evidence that something else happened there. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 14, 2022 9:07:32 GMT
So why do you rely on such arguments? I dont. You do. You never produce contemporaneous evidence from inside the AR camps or Kremas. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Feb 14, 2022 9:14:52 GMT
You do. You never produce contemporaneous evidence from inside the AR camps or Kremas. What kinds of evidence are you looking for ? |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Feb 14, 2022 9:17:07 GMT
Right, as I said in a different thread, you claim that Rajchman told the truth about Treblinka except when he lied. You can try to dress it up with "what ifs" and "exaggerations" but you can't take it anywhere. Rajchman lied about Treblinka being a murder facility. Yeah, generally I don't like Jews. What's the matter with that? Any law saying that I have to kiss a Jews butt? You think witnesses either tell the truth about everything, or they lie about everything. In the real work, it is not as simple as that. I do not think Rajchman has out and out lied about what he saw, but he has embellished his testimony. The only evidence is that TII was a death camp and there is no evidence that something else happened there. Yes, he embellished his story to turn a transit camp to an extermination camp. The evidence is that it was a transit camp which is well corroborated by various factors. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 14, 2022 9:39:32 GMT
You do. You never produce contemporaneous evidence from inside the AR camps or Kremas. What kinds of evidence are you looking for ? Eyewitness from someone who worked inside the camp or Krema. Documents, physical items, photos, archaeological evidence pertaining to those places. That you have to ask proves how clueless you are about evidencing. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 14, 2022 9:40:37 GMT
You think witnesses either tell the truth about everything, or they lie about everything. In the real work, it is not as simple as that. I do not think Rajchman has out and out lied about what he saw, but he has embellished his testimony. The only evidence is that TII was a death camp and there is no evidence that something else happened there. Yes, he embellished his story to turn a transit camp to an extermination camp. The evidence is that it was a transit camp which is well corroborated by various factors. What evidence? Name and quote witnesses and show documents, physical items etc that prove the AR camps were transit camps. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 14, 2022 10:43:34 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie goes for a simplistic lie. No, I don't think that someone who is mistaken or even lies about a detail of a narrative must therefore be lying about "everything". That's an asinine accusation even for Nessie.
Nessie's claim that only evidence for Treblinka being a death camp exists is just plain bullshit. Of course there's evidence for Treblinka being a transit camp. Nessie claims that there's evidence for people being gassed with the exhaust from a gasoline engine. There's also "evidence" that they were steamed to death, asphyxiated with vacuum, gassed with the exhaust from a diesel engine and at one time or another ALL were considered to be the actual lethal method.
Witnesses for Treblinka being a transit camp tell relatively straightforward stories. They arrived at Treblinka, stayed for varying but short lengths of time and were sent to other destinations. Nessie shrieks that they were just "selected for work" so they don't count. There were less than 20 witnesses and they accounted for 15-20,000 other deportees who left Treblinka. Nobody told tales of atrocities. No whips, no beating with rifle butts, no dogs sicced on them, nobody nailing their ears to walls. One fellow, the barber, said that the Germans "made him comfortable" and gave him something to eat. No, he didn't cut the hair of any naked women.
NOBODY has ever even come close to locating graves that were capable of containing over 700,000 cadavers. The testimony of alleged eyewitnesses are such a mish-mash of lies that no rational person can make head nor tail of them. Instead we get draglines that supposedly performed impossible feats of excavation and lifting. Nessie tries to excuse such lies with his "what ifs", "exaggerations" and "hyperbole".
Witnesses are prone to exaggerate/lie over matters that are personal or cast the witness in less than a flattering light. They routinely get colors and descriptions wrong. An assailant is almost always described a being larger than his actual size. Nessie uses these known quirks of witness testimony to excuse the outrageous testimony of "witnesses" who are making up absolute lies out of whole cloth.
Is Nessie debating in good faith? There's no way of knowing but I tend to think that he's not. Too many "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" but his religious zeal for the holyhoax could negate that. Damfino.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 14, 2022 11:43:22 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie goes for a simplistic lie. No, I don't think that someone who is mistaken or even lies about a detail of a narrative must therefore be lying about "everything". That's an asinine accusation even for Nessie. You cherry pick turns of phrase, exaggerated sizes and cry liar. No, there is evidence of some selections to go to labour camps in Poland, which also happened at the other AR camps and the mass transports to the Kremas at Birkenau. If sending workers to another camp made a camp a transit camp, then by your definition, Birkenau is a transit camp and indeed, most camps would be transit camps. Fact is the actual transit camps, the camps whose sole purpose was to gather Jews ready for transportation elsewhere, were in the west, such as Westerbork and Drancy. You ignore that gassing from engines is evidenced by eyewitnesses and the other claims are rumour and hearsay. You also ignore that all claims are deaths inside chambers, with only the method inside the chambers varying and we know why they vary. That is consistent with the selections described at other camps and you ignore they were not resettled in the east, instead they were sent to work at labour camps in Poland. You are ignoring the memorial prevents a mass site survey and what could be surveyed still found large pits had been dug, for which you can provide no evidenced explanation as to what the Nazis were burying in those pits. Yet again you lie and suggest a witness described a dragline. Stop lying. You know that witnesses will make mistakes and you have to claim, without any evidence, that the Nazis were coerced, because their descriptions are far more matter of fact and less emotive. I have debunked your arguments from incredulity and unevidenced claims. It is you who argues in bad faith, repeating the same debunked claims. |
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