Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 12, 2022 17:32:50 GMT
First, there's no proof that hundreds of thousands of Jews were ever in Treblinka. That number is based entirely on the Hoefle telegram which has NOT been corroborated by any associated documents. Then there is testimony from credible witnesses and records of deportees being transported out of Treblinka.
Then you claim that thousands of tons of firewood was purchased and shipped to Treblinka without even a hint of testimony or records of that event. No purchase orders, no disbursement of funds, no source of the firewood and absolutely nothing about any shipping documents. You claim that there are witnesses who claim that such shipments took place. Name and quote/link to their statements. You have a huge laundry list of supposed witnesses to the Treblinka holyhoax so naming and quoting/linking to their statements about firewood shipments should be easy for you.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 12, 2022 17:54:18 GMT
First, there's no proof that hundreds of thousands of Jews were ever in Treblinka. That number is based entirely on the Hoefle telegram which has NOT been corroborated by any associated documents. That is not true, I have discussed the other documents that corroborate Hofle with you on numerous occasions. I genuinely think you need help. How can you not remember those discussions and documents? Indeed there is, but it is odd you call them credible, since they think TII was a death camp. Then there is the issue of what do they prove? Do they prove TII was a transit camp? The answer is no. Do they prove TII, like every other death camp, had selections for workers to go to labour camps in Poland? The answer is yes. You have made that up, I have never claimed it was thousands of tons of wood. I have never said any weight for the wood. How can you not remember who that witness was, I discussed him not that long ago? www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/arperpsspeak.htmlErwin Lambert said "I went to Sobibor together with Lorenz Hackenholt, who was at that time in Treblinka. First of all, I went with Hackenholt to a sawmill near Warsaw. There Hackenholt ordered a big consignment of wood for reconstruction in Sobibor." Since all the AR camps were temporary and primarily built with wood, it is obvious wood was delivered to each camp. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 12, 2022 18:33:26 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Really? You discussed the original British intercept with me? Gee, I don't recall you doing that or offering any other proof of the authenticity of the Hoefle telegram. You will have to forgive the failing memory of an old man and refresh my memory.
It would take thousands of tons of wood to completely cremate ~900,000 cadavers or are you back to claiming that the magic Jew barbeque didn't require any substantial fuel to cremate the Jews?
Milled lumber was supposedly purchased from either a mill or a lumberyard in Warsaw. Nobody mentioned the purchase of firewood. Are you resorting to your "wood is wood" schtick? Where the hell did the firewood come from and how did it get to Treblinka? Why are there no witnesses to such shipments or any records of them?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 12, 2022 19:50:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: Really? You discussed the original British intercept with me? Gee, I don't recall you doing that or offering any other proof of the authenticity of the Hoefle telegram. You will have to forgive the failing memory of an old man and refresh my memory. I think you are being disingenuous and you remember fine what other documents corroborate Hofle with regards to mass transports to the AR camps. I have a thread on how often you lie and suggest there is no evidence; rodoh.freeforums.net/thread/255/claims-suggestions-evidenceThe Dresden and Ohrdruf pyres prove that it would take thousands of tons. Have you ever been to a wood yard? Do you know what the lumber is made from? Did you not know that everything from entire tree trunks, to cut planks, to firewood can be ordered from a wood yard? Some of the claims you make are beyond stupid. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Feb 12, 2022 21:36:25 GMT
Denier doubts that the Nazis could organise the delivery of wood for pyres is one of many examples of the stupidity of their arguments from incredulity. Arguments from credulity are baseless, especially as the lack of any gassings is well corroborated. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 12, 2022 23:56:29 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie claims that I lie and then cites his claim as proof that I lie. What was actually discussed was Nessie's lack of anything to corroborate the Hoefle telegram. Since the so-called telegram contains numerous errors, I wanted to see the original intercept and decode. Nessie offered nothing but to stamp his feet and shriek, "It's true, it's true".
Yep, they proved that so where did the thousands of tons of firewood come from and how did it get to Treblinka? Are you switching from the magic Jew barbeque to magically appearing firewood? Mattogno has a long-winded calculation of how big the clear-cut would be if the Germans had the Jews log the necessary firewood. I forget the size of the clear-cut but it was substantial and would still be visible to this day as new growth.
LMFAO! The first tractor semi-trailer combination that I bought was a flatbed. I hauled lumber from Oregon and Washington to Southern California. Freight back. Yes, I've been around more sawmills and lumberyards that you can count. Never saw any lumber yards that sold firewood nor any sawmills that cut firewood. Had a cousin that sold some firewood to a couple of woodlots over in Nevada. Nope, never had any dealings with sawmills or lumberyards either one that dealt in firewood. People generally cut their own firewood or deal directly with a wood cutter.
Nessie is blowing smoke and bullshit again. Mill ends used to be sold for firewood but it was a byproduct. A mill wouldn't produce thousands of tons of mill ends for an on demand customer. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 13, 2022 11:01:43 GMT
...Arguments from credulity are baseless... So why do you rely on such arguments? |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 13, 2022 11:08:41 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie claims that I lie and then cites his claim as proof that I lie. What was actually discussed was Nessie's lack of anything to corroborate the Hoefle telegram. Since the so-called telegram contains numerous errors, I wanted to see the original intercept and decode. Nessie offered nothing but to stamp his feet and shriek, "It's true, it's true". You lied that there are no documents to corroborate Hofle. You know what the other documents are, we have discussed them. Mattogno thinks that the Nazis could only source wood from the surrounding woods, but they could easily go to a woodyard and order firewood and get it delivered. It is bizarre you find that so incredible. A friend builds boats and wooden sheds. He was at a local woodyard when Ministry of Agriculture civil servants arrived to ask about the purchase of logs to use on pyres in case of a foot and mouth outbreak. The woodyard was happy to supply logs for such pyres. You are talking nonsense that a woodyard would turn away business when asked to supply any kind of wood. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 13, 2022 11:37:37 GMT
Of course a government agency can buy logs from a sawmill or logging companies. Did your Ministry of Agriculture specify the dimensions of the logs? Why would they buy a 30 inch butt cut log to burn carcasses? Was the mill providing transportation? Why didn't the Ministry buy railroad sleepers as was done in other cases of carcass disposal? The Germans would have had to have the logs milled into 1.5 meter long and less than a 50-70 cm butt cut.
Nessie sounds like he's blowing more smoke and bullshit.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 13, 2022 12:18:56 GMT
Of course a government agency can buy logs from a sawmill or logging companies. Did your Ministry of Agriculture specify the dimensions of the logs? Why would they buy a 30 inch butt cut log to burn carcasses? Was the mill providing transportation? Why didn't the Ministry buy railroad sleepers as was done in other cases of carcass disposal? The Germans would have had to have the logs milled into 1.5 meter long and less than a 50-70 cm butt cut. Nessie sounds like he's blowing more smoke and bullshit. The photos of the pyres at Dresden and Ohrdruf show how the pyres were set and your claim Germans are so inept they cannot organise getting suitable wood for the pyres is one of your more stupid arguments from incredulity. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 13, 2022 13:02:21 GMT
Nessie wrote:
The bodies at Ohrdruf and Dresden were obviously meant to be burned for hygienic purposes. That's specifically stated for Dresden. The cremation grate was supposedly meant to cremate the cadavers at Treblinka to carbonized bones and teeth.
Supplying Treblinka with thousands of tons of seasoned firewood would be no mean feat of transport given the less than modern means of transportation. Where did the firewood come from? Did it all come from one source or multiple sources? How was it transported. Trains? Trucks? Horse and carts? How did it get from the source(s) to Treblinka and how was handled and stored? Wait a minute! I know, we don't know but it happened because it happened. Nessie logic from holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 13, 2022 13:46:20 GMT
Nessie wrote: The bodies at Ohrdruf and Dresden were obviously meant to be burned for hygienic purposes. That's specifically stated for Dresden. The cremation grate was supposedly meant to cremate the cadavers at Treblinka to carbonized bones and teeth. The Dresden police report said the ashes from the pyres were taken to the cemeteries; web.archive.org/web/20140502040509/http://www.cpgg.info/docs/schlussmeldung_dresden1945.htm"In consideration of the rapidly advancing decomposition and the existing extraordinary difficulties with the rescue, as well as the lack of suitable vehicles for the transfer to cemeteries with the approval of the Gauleiter and the city administration on the Altmarkt a total of 6,865 dead cremated. The ashes of the fallen were transferred to a cemetery." Why does not knowing how the wood was delivered, evidence no wood was delivered? Your argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 13, 2022 14:37:48 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Your claim that the wood just magically appeared at Treblinka just in time to cremate the current batch of cadavers with nobody even noticing it's arrival doesn't deserve any credibility.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 13, 2022 16:28:00 GMT
Nessie wrote: Your claim that the wood just magically appeared at Treblinka just in time to cremate the current batch of cadavers with nobody even noticing it's arrival doesn't deserve any credibility. That is not my claim, my claim is that wood was ordered and delivered and wood deliveries are not notable when people are being gassed by the thousands every day. You cannot argue against that, so you lie and make up a dishonest version of what I have said. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 13, 2022 18:16:56 GMT
Nessie is back to shrieking, "You lie, you lie". He wrote:
Nobody mentioned any deliveries of firewood and there are NO maps of Treblinka that show a woodlot. IOW, there would have to be just in time deliveries for wood necessary to cremate the daily quota of cadavers. It's an either or situation. Either there was a woodlot for storing the wood shipments or there were on just in time deliveries.
So how did the firewood get to Treblinka? Trucks? Horse and wagon? Trains are out because that would require a woodlot. Why was everyone so silent about the wood supply? It would take about 500 tons of wood per cremation, 2,500X200kg of firewood per cremation and that's a low-ball figure.
Then we have the pile of bodies. Rajchman said that at least some of the cadavers were cut into pieces that the SS operator dropped on the Jews carrying the cadavers to the barbeque. It's claimed that the grate was built 50 or 70 cm off the ground. Say 2.5 feet. Then we have 2,500 cadavers or pieces of cadavers stacked on the grate. At 25 layers of cadavers at 6 inches per layer that would equal 12.5 feet of cadavers if they were piled in a square. Rajchman claimed that the stack of bodies tapered so the stack would be at least 15 feet tall. Add the 2.5 feet from the grate and the top layer would be somewhere between 17.5-18 feet high.
Rajchman also claimed that two working Jews took a hand and a leg each and threw the cadaver on top of the pile. This leads to the absolutely ludicrous scenario of Jews throwing not only bits and pieces of cadavers but whole cadavers getting sailed with unerring accuracy to the top of a 17-18 foot high pile of cadavers that was 30 meters long.
Oh, wait a minute! Rajchman was just exaggerating or engaging in a bit of hyperbole. Actually he wrote that in his book so had time for sober reflection but nevermind. Just curious but do you actually believe such mindless claptrap? Even more curious, do you expect other people to believe it?
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