Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 2, 2022 19:39:14 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No, chowderhead, it wouldn't be "perfectly rational" for Hofle to pop up with an unknown transmitter, from an unknown location, using no call signs, talking to an unknown receiver, send his top secret message and disappear forever.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 2, 2022 19:41:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: No, chowderhead, it wouldn't be "perfectly rational" for Hofle to pop up with an unknown transmitter, from an unknown location, using no call signs, talking to an unknown receiver, send his top secret message and disappear forever. Yes it would be, if it was in response to a one off request for information from Korherr, who was reporting to Himmler. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 2, 2022 20:01:57 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Your ignorance is beyond belief. How did Koherr supposedly make that request? Personal conversation? Telephone? Radio message? Tin can on a string?
The Germans had numerous enigma networks. Which one did Hofle use to send his message? When was it intercepted? What is there to confirm that the Hofle message is authentic? You apparently can't comprehend any of that so asking you anything about the message is pointless. For example, can you say "call signs" or "frequencies"? Did Hofle use reverse call signs? Anything? Well, I suppose that it's all just beyond you other than, "Hofle's message is authentic". Standard hoaxer idiocy.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 2, 2022 20:07:00 GMT
Nessie wrote: Your ignorance is beyond belief. How did Koherr supposedly make that request? Personal conversation? Telephone? Radio message? Tin can on a string? The Germans had numerous enigma networks. Which one did Hofle use to send his message? You could contact the National Archive and ask. Jan 11th, 1943. It is contained amongst numerous other intercepts and what is recorded is corroborated by other evidence of mass arrivals at the AR camps. You have no evidence it was forged, only an opinion. You do not know how to go about evidencing it was forged. |
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Post by Ulios on Feb 2, 2022 20:08:12 GMT
It is perfectly rational that the Hofle Telegram was a one off. AR was top secret and the information contained was used by Korherr in his report 2 months later. It may have been the result of a request for information specific to the report and it was sent as a one off short message that no one would realise the significance of. The telegram says: Re: 14-day report Operation REINHARD. Reference: radiogram from there. All military and police material was top secret; this is a fortnightly report with the appropriate figures, the apparent over all totals come later. The wording suggests that these reports were sent fortnightly, regular updates on the state of affairs. The report implies there were 69 similar sized transports to Treblinka as what occurred over the previous two weeks. (2 x for L, 196 for Sobibor). It was appear that Herr Hoefle was a little negligent informing his superiors by regular updates considering this is the only one. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 2, 2022 20:13:30 GMT
It is perfectly rational that the Hofle Telegram was a one off. AR was top secret and the information contained was used by Korherr in his report 2 months later. It may have been the result of a request for information specific to the report and it was sent as a one off short message that no one would realise the significance of. The telegram says: Re: 14-day report Operation REINHARD. Reference: radiogram from there. All military and police material was top secret; this is a fortnightly report with the appropriate figures, the apparent over all totals come later. The wording suggests that these reports were sent fortnightly, regular updates on the state of affairs. The report implies there were 69 similar sized transports to Treblinka as what occurred over the previous two weeks. (2 x for L, 196 for Sobibor). It was appear that Herr Hoefle was a little negligent informing his superiors by regular updates considering this is the only one.
That could be, Hofle was asked to supply details of what happened in the past 14 days and an end of the year tally.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 2, 2022 20:24:05 GMT
I want to see the actual intercept in order to try and gauge if the message is authentic or not. Does it have the requisite call signs and attendant "chatter" before the message is sent? Nessie can't comprehend that. IOW, is there an actual schedule kept for the transmission of the message and what were the numbers as stated in the intercept? Is there any such intercept? Nessie for damn sure can't produce one yet he stamps his feet and shrieks, "It's true, the message is real".
As Ulios just said, the report was just one of a fortnightly schedule so where are the rest of the reports?
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Feb 2, 2022 20:25:51 GMT
That request should have been detected by Bletchley yet this stands as a one off. Note that the original states Reinhart probably referring to Fritz Reinhardt. I would be interested in all the other Reinhardt intercepts if any not just the H telegram. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 3, 2022 10:45:56 GMT
I want to see the actual intercept in order to try and gauge if the message is authentic or not. Does it have the requisite call signs and attendant "chatter" before the message is sent? Nessie can't comprehend that. IOW, is there an actual schedule kept for the transmission of the message and what were the numbers as stated in the intercept? Is there any such intercept? Nessie for damn sure can't produce one yet he stamps his feet and shrieks, "It's true, the message is real". As Ulios just said, the report was just one of a fortnightly schedule so where are the rest of the reports?
You appear to be suggesting that on the 11th Jan 1943, someone at a radio station intercepting Nazi transmissions, or someone at Bletchley, made up the Hofle Telegram and added it into the list of other intercepts.
Or are you claiming that at a later date, someone slipped into the National Archive and slipped a page, including the Hofle Telegram into the file for that date.
You need to explain how the Telegram was faked and then you to evidence it is a fake.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 3, 2022 12:06:06 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Determining if the telegram is a forgery is precisely why I want to see the intercept. What can't you understand about that?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 3, 2022 14:56:31 GMT
Nessie wrote: Determining if the telegram is a forgery is precisely why I want to see the intercept. What can't you understand about that? How can you determine it was a forgery from seeing the intercept? You have dodged my question, are you alleging someone in a radio monitoring station, on January the 11th 1943, made up that transmission and added it to others? |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 3, 2022 16:08:40 GMT
IOW, you can't produce the intercept. Does it exist? Nobody seems to know.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 3, 2022 16:23:02 GMT
IOW, you can't produce the intercept. Does it exist? Nobody seems to know. I have already told you that the original unencrypted intercept is likely in either the National or Bletchley archive. You are obviously only interested in spouting off your opinion than doing any work to find evidence.
You have again dodged my questions
How can you determine it was a forgery from seeing the intercept?
Are you alleging someone in a radio monitoring station, on January the 11th 1943, made up that transmission and added it to others?
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 3, 2022 16:54:33 GMT
First show me the intercept. The copy is full of mistakes and dodgy as hell. It MAY be authentic or it may be a forgery but seeing if a real intercept exists is the first step. Curious how you hoaxers never want to actually prove your claims of mass murder.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 3, 2022 17:08:23 GMT
First show me the intercept. The copy is full of mistakes and dodgy as hell. It MAY be authentic or it may be a forgery but seeing if a real intercept exists is the first step. Curious how you hoaxers never want to actually prove your claims of mass murder. We cannot show you the intercept. How can you determine it was a forgery from seeing the intercept?
Are you alleging someone in a radio monitoring station, on January the 11th 1943, made up that transmission and added it to others?
Are you alleging someone at Bletchley on, or shortly after January the 11th 1943, made up and typed in the "Hofle Telegram" to that page, without any original intercept?
You do not need to see the intercept to answer those questions.
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