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Post by been_there on Aug 26, 2022 16:59:05 GMT
That is NOT what is being compared. As has been explained to you numerous times to no avail. Proving you DO definitely have a considerable comprehension disability. What is being compared is the physical impossiblity of a boy cycling to the moon, with the physical impossiblility of the lie-witness descriptions of the alleged functioning holyhoax gas chambers. [Sheesh! ๐คฆโโ๏ธ How many times must this be explained?]A witness who claims to have seen a boy cycling to the moon has to have lied, because that act is impossible...
Yes! And that applies to MULTIPLE witnesses claiming they saw the boy do that. Multiple witnesses do NOT corroborate a physical impossibility. It actually does the opposite. The same applies to the Jewish-led, anti-German, racist, vengeful, mercenary-motivated, scientifically refuted, holyhoax mass-gassing calumny. Viz. A witness โ or many โwitnessesโ โ who claimed to have seen a hermetically sealed homicidal gas chamber that had engine exhaust pumped into it has to have lied, because that act is impossible. Viz. A witness โ or many โwitnessesโ โ who claimed to have seen a hermetically sealed homicidal gas chamber that had diesel engine exhaust pumped into it has to have lied, because that would not kill in the time claimed. Viz. A Jewish witness โ or many โwitnessesโ โ who claimed to have seen thousands of corpses daily over many months from homicidal gas chamber that were other colours but NEVER cherry red has to have lied, because that is biologically impossible. Etc., etc., etc.
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Post by been_there on Aug 26, 2022 17:04:57 GMT
The following is a comparative example showing the use of logic employed by someone that cannot be named: - multiple witnesses said they saw such gas chambers and mass gassings and some described how they think they worked, but those descriptions lack details and make some obvious mistakes... Those descriptions DID NOT โlack details. On the contrary, they included very specific details. Details that unfortunately for them were ridiculous, physical impossibilities. Thus proving that they were lying and out of ignorance inventing scientifically impossible nonsense. So by your own criteria doesnโ this make you a โdirty liarโ for falsely claiming their โdescriptions lacked detailsโ?? ๐
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Aug 26, 2022 18:35:22 GMT
been-there wrote:
Yes, there's a plethora of details about the gas chamber. Not all of the details from the different witnesses match but one thing that all of the witnesses agree upon is that the gas chamber was hermetically sealed.
Just as the witnesses agree that a dragline was used to exhume the cadavers. Nessie says that didn't happen. The draglines were just used to uncover the graves and the sonderkommandos did the exhuming of the cadavers. Why is that any different from me saying, nope, the little boy didn't peddle his tricycle to the moon. He just rode around the block.
Another thing that Nessie doesn't consider is the character of the witnesses. Chil Rajchman for example. At the Demjanjuk trial Rajchman positively identified Demjanjuk as the guard known as Ivan the terrible. It was on such evidence that Demjanjuk was sentenced to death. He narrowly escaped being executed by proving that he wasn't, in fact, Ivan Marchenko/Ivan the terrible. Rajchman is shown to be a no good lying SOB and he's one of Nessie's star witnesses to the gassing murders at Treblinka.
Wiernik is similarly shown to be a liar by his own words and his initial sketches/maps of Treblinka. I find it doubtful that Wiernik was ever actually in Treblinka. I have no proof of that but given his lies, what Nessie calls "misestimations" or exaggerations or emotive language and how his fantasy evolved over time, it's a pretty good bet.
As far as Bomba, not even Lanzmann was convinced by his harebrained fairy tales. All in all, Nessie's witnesses are a pretty sleazy bunch.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 27, 2022 7:43:27 GMT
A witness who claims to have seen a boy cycling to the moon has to have lied, because that act is impossible...
Yes! And that applies to MULTIPLE witnesses claiming they saw the boy do that. Correct. Correct. That act appears impossible to you because of the way you have interpreted what they said. The context and the descriptions are in relation to the hermetically sealed door and/or a roof cap being closed just prior to the gassings starting. That makes sense, as it would stop gas leaking out. The witnesses clearly did not know about pressure issues or understand how a chamber is not a hermetic seal, when gas can be pumped into it. You say their mistakes mean they lied and there were no gassings. I say their mistakes mean they just made mistakes and that is not proof they lied and there were no gassings. We interpret the witnesses words differently. I know witness descriptions are going to be flawed and contain mistakes. I also see that the Jewish witnesses use a lot of emotive, figurative language. You interpret the medical evidence differently to me. I read the medical evidence as cherry red skin is not obvious on death in acute fatal cases and it only appears after death with lividity. How do we find out which interpretation is correct?
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Post by Nessie on Aug 27, 2022 7:50:13 GMT
- multiple witnesses said they saw such gas chambers and mass gassings and some described how they think they worked, but those descriptions lack details and make some obvious mistakes... Those descriptions DID NOT โlack details. On the contrary, they included very specific details. Details that unfortunately for them were ridiculous, physical impossibilities. Thus proving that they were lying and out of ignorance inventing scientifically impossible nonsense. So by your own criteria doesnโ this make you a โdirty liarโ for falsely claiming their โdescriptions lacked detailsโ?? ๐ The detail that is totally lacking and not mentioned by any witness, is the pressure issue. Wiernik does not say anything about how the gas chambers worked, that is physically impossible. He may even have spotted a pressure vent, "hermetic cap" without realising it.
"When I arrived at the camp, three gas chambers were already in operation; another ten were added while I was there. A gas chamber measured 5 x 5 meters and was about 1.90 meters high. The outlet on the roof had a hermetic cap. The chamber was equipped with a gas pipe inlet and a baked tile floor slanting towards the platform. The brick building which housed the gas chambers was separated from Camp No. 1 by a wooden wall. This wooden wall and the brick wall of the building together formed a corridor which was 80 centimeters taller than the building. The chambers were connected with the corridor by a hermetically fitted iron door leading into each of the chambers. On the side of Camp No. 2 the chambers were connected by a platform four meters wide, which- ran alongside all three chambers. The platform was about 80 centimeters above ground level. There was also a hermetically fitted wooden door on this side. Each chamber had a door facing Camp No. 2 (1.80 by 2.50 meters), which could be opened only from the outside by lifting it with iron supports and was closed by iron hooks set into the sash frames, and by wooden bolts. The victims were led into the chambers through the doors leading from the corridor, while the remains of the gassed victims were dragged out through the doors facing Camp No. 2. The power plant operated alongside these chambers, supplying Camps 1 and 2 with electric current. A motor taken from a dismantled Soviet tank stood in the power plant. This motor was used to pump the gas, which was let into the chambers by connecting the motor with the inflow pipes. The speed with which death overcame the helpless victims depended on the quantity of combustion gas admitted into the chamber at one time. The machinery of the gas chambers was operated by two Ukrainians."
What is physically impossible about that? I asked Turnagain previously and he could not come up with anything.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 27, 2022 7:55:56 GMT
been-there wrote: Yes, there's a plethora of details about the gas chamber. Not all of the details from the different witnesses match but one thing that all of the witnesses agree upon is that the gas chamber was hermetically sealed. Wiernik did not say the chamber was hermetically sealed, he said the doors and a cap were. Having hermetic sealing round them makes sense to stop leaks. It does not mean the chamber is a hermetic seal. You have again made a false claim about what the witnesses said. None of them said a dragline was used. You have made that up. You make up claims that the witnesses did not say and misinterpret witnesses evidence. You fail to take into account normal witness issues, primarily memory and estimation. Your ignorance of normal witness behaviour has led you to think they all lied. Just because you think that, does not make it so. You have fallen for the argument of fallacy from incredulity.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Aug 27, 2022 7:58:20 GMT
Why put gas in, just use the engine to suck the air out, this would asphyxiate them easily, especially if the rising levels of carbon dioxide and other gases displaces the oxygen, which would also solve the pressure issue. The system is like one of those filtration systems that use water and the Bernoulli effect to create a vacuum. If you could fine some evidence of this kind of system, easily made you might have a win.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 27, 2022 8:04:27 GMT
Why put gas in, just use the engine to suck the air out, this would asphyxiate them easily, especially if the rising levels of carbon dioxide and other gases displaces the oxygen, which would also solve the pressure issue. The system is like one of those filtration systems that use water and the Bernoulli effect to create a vacuum. If you could fine some evidence of this kind of system, easily made you might have a win. Some did think that happened. The Nazis confirmed it did not and they pumped exhaust in.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Aug 27, 2022 8:21:46 GMT
Some did think that happened. The Nazis confirmed it did not and they pumped exhaust in. I doubt if those Nazis were the technicians but administrators not knowing the details. This would be a bit like a driver unable to describe the details of a car engine, except that you put fuel in. The system you think would work is deeply flawed with pressure issues. If there are exhaust valves there is no need for hermetic seals, which Turnagain has exposed many times. If there is a vacuum there would be an implosion also plausibly refuted by the same poster. If there was a system of vacuum easily done by exhaust gas (the Bernoulli effect), the displace oxygen replaced with some exhaust gas the effects would be devastatingly lethal within minutes without poisoning, though the CO would hasten the demise. The name of the system is irrelevant at this stage, it would be totally lethal. If you find such evidence let the forum know. The Germans would be very well aware of this information and science.
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Post by Nessie on Aug 27, 2022 8:32:12 GMT
Some did think that happened. The Nazis confirmed it did not and they pumped exhaust in. I doubt if those Nazis were the technicians but administrators not knowing the details. This would be a bit like a driver unable to describe the details of a car engine, except that you put fuel in. The system you think would work is deeply flawed with pressure issues. If there are exhaust valves there is no need for hermetic seals, which Turnagain has exposed many times. If there is a vacuum there would be an implosion also plausibly refuted by the same poster. If there was a system of vacuum easily done by exhaust gas (the Bernoulli effect), the displace oxygen replaced with some exhaust gas the effects would be devastatingly lethal within minutes without poisoning, though the CO would hasten the demise. The name of the system is irrelevant at this stage, it would be totally lethal. If you find such evidence let the forum know. The Germans would be very well aware of this information and science. The evidence is that mass gassings took place. No alternative is evidenced.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Aug 27, 2022 8:37:35 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Wiernik claimed that the doors and the vent were hermetically sealed. What other openings to the gas chamber are you talking about? Nobody reported that the gas chambers had windows. How was the gas chamber vented?
If the red/pink discoloration appears only with post mortem lividity then explain how victims who displayed red/pink skin discoloration but then survived the CO poisoning.
Nessie cites Wiernik's description of the gas chamber and then states:
Hunh? Wiernik describes the gas chamber as being hermetically sealed and then states, "This motor was used to pump the gas, which was let into the chambers by connecting the motor with the inflow pipes". What the hell do you mean that I can't find anything impossible about that?
Again, what other openings are in the gas chamber that could be sealed?
Dragine, clamshell, digger, seilbagger, excavator or whatever the hell you want to call it. It was the machine that allegedly dug the graves and exhumed the bodies. Rajchman gives a graphic description of it exhuming bodies. So does Wiernik.
Nessie then shrieks his usual litany of excuses for the lies of the witnesses and finishes up with his cry of, "argument from incredulity".
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Aug 27, 2022 8:48:57 GMT
Nessie then shrieks his usual litany of excuses for the lies of the witnesses and finishes up with his cry of, "argument from incredulity". I know you are after the truth as much as anyone; flipper will continue his spiel of what he thinks is the truth. In this there is a major difference in integrity. Integrity atm is not on flippers side. Lets deal with the reality; the reality is that aktion 14 f 13 took place, at Sobibor it was with bullets at Treblinka there is less information. If the oldies and decrepit were euthanized then gassing would be the method of choice. However, I think it was not gassing but a series of suffocation with the displacement of air and oxygen filled with exhaust fumes; this is easily achieved with some engineering knowledge. People without air do not last long. The main cause of death if this was the case would by suffocation or asphyxiation, enhanced by lethal toxicity of gas. To me the reality of the demise of a few old people does not mean anything although abhorrent by todays standards.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Aug 27, 2022 9:02:31 GMT
Nazgul wrote:
Indeed, after recanting his revisionist position Hunt claimed that the able bodied were transferred out of Treblinka and the aged, ill and infirm were euthanized. However, from German documentation, Jews who were in a Warsaw hospital were exempt from being deported. Whatever happened to those Jews is unknown but they weren't part of the wholesale population transfer.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Aug 27, 2022 9:08:47 GMT
Nazgul wrote: Indeed, after recanting his revisionist position Hunt claimed that the able bodied were transferred out of Treblinka and the aged, ill and infirm were euthanized. However, from German documentation, Jews who were in a Warsaw hospital were exempt from being deported. Whatever happened to those Jews is unknown but they weren't part of the wholesale population transfer. Hardly a holocaust. I suspect that these probable events were put on steroids by some ๊lowns to encompass the whole Jewish population to create the illusion of mass demise when in fact it were a few oldies and cripples (still abhorrent but that is war).
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Post by been_there on Aug 27, 2022 9:41:13 GMT
If the red/pink discoloration appears only with post mortem lividity then explain how victims who displayed red/pink skin discoloration but then survived the CO poisoning. She/he cannot explain how victims who displayed red/pink skin discoloration survived the CO poisoning. We know this. As we have been around this numerous times. This is just another example of her/his quite crazy denial of reality. As even if cherry-red/bright pink corpse-colour only occurred after lividity, it makes no difference. The incorrect descriptions by lie-witnesses STILL refute their testimonies and their mass-gassing mythology. This is because even with this excuse, not a single Jewish-survivor ever mentioned seeing such corpse discolourisation among the thousands they claimed to have seen daily and over many months.
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