Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 3, 2022 17:14:29 GMT
"WHAT IF" you had a feather up your arse. Then we would both be tickled. "WHAT IF" the little boy DID ride his trike to the moon? "WHAT IF" the Jews got on a mother ship and left for Alpha Centauri? You seem to think that it's the revisionists job to answer every "what if" you can fantasize. Disabuse yourself of that notion.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 3, 2022 18:12:46 GMT
"WHAT IF" you had a feather up your arse. Then we would both be tickled. "WHAT IF" the little boy DID ride his trike to the moon? "WHAT IF" the Jews got on a mother ship and left for Alpha Centauri? You seem to think that it's the revisionists job to answer every "what if" you can fantasize. Disabuse yourself of that notion. I would like you to stop waffling and explain why it is rational to believe in the physically impossible transportation and accommodation of c2.5 million people, without leaving any evidence of that happening.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 4, 2022 4:13:35 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Yeah, and I would like to see some proof that 900,000 Jews were gassed and cremated at Treblinka but that isn't going to happen. There is, however, credible testimony that 15,000-20,000 Jews left Treblinka for alternate destinations. Nessie tries to minimize that but there it is. The claim that Treblinka was an execution facility is based on testimony by known liars, a handful of unidentified bone chips and some "disturbed ground". That and his usual litany of "what ifs" and "coulda woulda".
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 4, 2022 15:39:59 GMT
Nessie wrote: Yeah, and I would like to see some proof that 900,000 Jews were gassed and cremated at Treblinka but that isn't going to happen. It has happened, but since it is not what you want to hear, you have thought up excuses to reject all the evidence that proves mass gassings, burials and cremations. It is half that and those destinations were labour camps in Poland and it amounts to a tiny proportion of people sent to TII. You try to make out that limited selections to go to Polish labour camps is evidence TII was a transit camp that sent hundreds of thousands of people to other unknown places. The death camp evidence is from - every single witness who was inside or worked near to the camp. That includes the witnesses you try to claim are credible. - multiple documents recording mass transports to the camp, with no corresponding documentary evidence of mass transports back out. - all of the archaeological evidence, which proves large areas of disturbed ground where witnesses said mass graves were dug, and large amounts of cremated and identifiable human remains. - the circumstantial evidence of Action Reinhardt and the theft of the last of the Jews property, which is consistent with gassing, not resettlement You ignore much of the evidence and then ignore your total lack of evidence for the regular mass transports. You claim it was possible to transport and accommodate c850,000 people without leaving any evidence.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 4, 2022 16:04:33 GMT
Gee, what happened to Nessie's demand for eyewitnesses? Oh, that's right, when it supports his holyhoax, hearsay and rumors do just fine. Then we have his "multiple documents". What are those documents, Nessie? Zabecki's "records"? The Hofle telegram? How about presenting a few of those documents. Of course we have his usual litany of "disturbed ground" and by "archaeological evidence" I suppose that he means CS-C's little handful of unidentified bone chips. I especially like his "what if" the witnesses to trainloads of deportees leaving Treblinka didn't know where they were. I mean it "coulda" happened that way. Right? Suuuuure it could. Life in holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 4, 2022 16:57:34 GMT
Gee, what happened to Nessie's demand for eyewitnesses? Oh, that's right, when it supports his holyhoax, hearsay and rumors do just fine. Give me a link to where I have used hearsay or rumour as evidence. Failure to do so will be taken as your admission you have yet again made up an allegation against me. There are also the Ganzenmuller letter, Stroop Report and all of the ghetto records including the Warsaw shuttle train record. You have been told about those records on multiple previosu occasions and yet again, you pretend to forget. You know what I mean, we have discussed the evidence from the Polish and later investigations and the huge areas of disturbed ground they found. How about you link to and quote the witnesses you believe? Oh, yes, you refuse to! You want to pretend that they don't claim TII was a death camp. You want to pretend that when interviewed over 30 years later, the witnesses will have faultless memories about which camps they were at. Your "what if" they were at TII does not cut it. Yet again, when responding to me, you dodge the physically impossible claims you make about mass transports and accommodation. Why is that?
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 5, 2022 3:46:25 GMT
Nessie wrote: Go here: www.timesofisrael.com/auctioned-nazi-letter-may-be-a-fake/ Even the Jews are aware that the Ganzenmuller letter is most likely a fake. The Stroop report is, of course, a known fake. Everything that Nessie presents as proof of his precious holyhoax turns out to be questionable at best or a known forgery.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 5, 2022 4:15:28 GMT
Nessie wrote:
I have linked to the Hunt video more times than I can count. Nessie pretends that I haven't. Not all of the witnesses say anything about Treblinka being a death camp. The ones who do have NO eyewitness accounts of anyone being killed at Treblinka. They are simply repeating rumors, hearsay. I haven't ever "pretended" that the witnesses didn't think that they were in a "death camp". Nessie is just plain lying about that.
I make NO "what if" claim about where the witnesses were sent. I simply take their statements that they were in Treblinka at face value. Nessie makes the "what if" they were mistaken about being in Treblinka claim.
(sigh) The witnesses SAID they were in Treblinka. Three of the witnesses SAID that they left Treblinka in full trainloads of deportees. According to conventional wisdom that would be 15-18,000 people who left in full trainloads. Then there are the deportees who left Treblinka accompanied by various numbers of deportees. Therefore, there's witness testimony that somewhere between 15-20,000 deportees are known to have left Treblinka alive. That is a far cry from Arad et al. who claim that only a few hundred escaped from Treblinka and less than a hundred survived the escape attempt.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 5, 2022 8:09:56 GMT
Re-read the article. There is suspicion about a document that appeared for auction that is virtually identical to the original Ganzenmuller Letter. Deniers claim every document that evidences what happened is a fake. Cry fake without evidence too often and you have no credibility. You dodge that there are no documents at all about the supposed transportation and resettlement of c2.5 million Jews you claim were not gassed. Your refusal to discuss the physical impossibility of moving and accommodating so many people without leaving any evidence, is proof your claims are fake.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 5, 2022 19:48:12 GMT
Someone has been abusing moderator status again and blacked me from replying in another thread. rodoh.freeforums.net/post/3739/threadTurnagain, in response to my pointing out that digging pits etc are not tasks beyond the abilities of the Germans during WII has said Holocaust denial cannot evidence its claims. Instead, it relies on the use of the logical fallacy of argument from incredulity. Because the deniers interpret the witness claims in the most literal manner, often cherry-picking the obviously incorrect claims, they think that they can argue because the witness claims appear too ridiculous to believe, therefore they are all lying, therefore no gassings, graves and cremations. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will recognise their use of that fallacy and understand how stupid that is. Because witness evidence is inherently the least reliable form of evidence, whether something happened or not, cannot be determined purely from witness descriptions. Interestingly, deniers steer clear of the witnesses who designed and engineered the Kremas at A-B. They are exceptional as witnesses, because they knew exactly how the Kremas worked as gas chambers and for mass cremations, because they designed them. Nothing those engineers said is challenged by any denier, because the German engineers describe what happened there in detail and in a way that was not emotive or can otherwise be disputed. It was a pretty simple engineering challenge to add holes to the Krema roofs, make the inside look like a shower, fit gas tight doors and windows (as applicable to the Krema), fit a ventilation system and engineer ovens capable of mass cremations. One of the engineers even patented his oven design, he was that pleased with it. forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61650As for digging pits, the witnesses simply said that excavators were used. That is hardly ridiculous. They hardly go into any detail about the exhumations, but it is not ridiculous for excavators to be used to dig over the graves, uncover bodies and then Sonderkommados go and remove them to the pyres. The use of metal rails and wood for pyres is recorded at Dresden and in Tibet. Witness descriptions tell us that it did not need as much wood as expected and the site was horrific. Witnesses from outside the camps, who did not see how the pyres were set, describe months of cremations and the smoke and stench. That is just like the mass pyres during foot and mouth outbreaks. Turnagain uses an illogical argument. Deniers are reliant on that argument and repeat it, despite having its lack of logic explained, such is their desperation to believe.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 5, 2022 19:57:52 GMT
Nessie tries to bullshit about what the alleged eyewitnesses testified to but it doesn't fly. Try again, Nessie. Try not to lie this time.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 5, 2022 20:01:48 GMT
Nessie tries to bullshit about what the alleged eyewitnesses testified to but it doesn't fly. Try again, Nessie. Try not to lie this time. What is the lie you allege?
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 5, 2022 20:12:29 GMT
You can start with the hermetically sealed gas chambers. Then move on to whole cadavers being exhumed with a clamshell. How the graves were dug would be nice and of course, how the magic Jew barbeque functioned with only twigs, brush or some camp detritus for fuel. You can even throw in the German's coerced confessions if you want. I especially want to know how the cadavers were used as fuel to cremate cadavers. You know, like the burning blood of Rajchman and Czarny. That will do for starters.
BTW, save your "what ifs", "coulda woulda" etc. for your fellow believers. Don't try them here.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Feb 5, 2022 20:21:37 GMT
You can start with the hermetically sealed gas chambers. Then move on to whole cadavers being exhumed with a clamshell. How the graves were dug would be nice and of course, how the magic Jew barbeque functioned with only twigs, brush or some camp detritus for fuel. You can even throw in the German's coerced confessions if you want. I especially want to know how the cadavers were used as fuel to cremate cadavers. You know, like the burning blood of Rajchman and Czarny. That will do for starters. BTW, save your "what ifs", "coulda woulda" etc. for your fellow believers. Don't try them here.
We have been over that before. The emotive descriptions are not to be taken literally. You ignore context. You cherry-pick and quote mine. What the witnesses describe is physically possible. For example, closing a gas chamber door that has a hermetic seal on it, not unreasonably, has the witnesses stating the chamber has now been hermetically sealed. But they are clearly only referring to the seal created by the door, since they then describe gas being pumped in, so clearly the chamber is not completely, hermetically sealed. Descriptions of the pyres are that they were set by lighting wood, which in turn set the corpses on fire, which then burned without the need to add any more fuel.
You chose to interpret the witnesses in a way to make it appear to you what they claim is not possible. What they claim happened is not actually a physical impossibility.
Yet again you dodge discussing the Topf & Sons engineers, who give detailed and matter of fact descriptions of how the Krema gas chamber worked. You cannot find excuses to dismiss their evidence.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Feb 5, 2022 20:24:50 GMT
I said that your "what ifs" etc. wasn't going to fly. I'm not hearing your bullshit so start over.
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