Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 18, 2022 9:37:53 GMT
Nessie disagrees with the Yad Vashem Rabbi. He goes on to say that 1.1% is the same as 2%. Hey, 9,500 is about the same as 17,200. Well, close enough for Nessie work. A disagreement between 1.1% and 2% is minor and not worth debating over page after page. What is important is that neither 1.1% or 2% of people arriving at TII then leaving, is evidence that TII was a transit camp. Both are consistent with selections for workers.
Of the Hungarian Jews sent to A-B in 1944, 25-30% were selected for work;
In spring 1944, the Nazis needed far more workers than in 1942-3, when gassings had a higher priority.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 18, 2022 10:00:12 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Of course there's Kulawy and his trainload of men, women and children who got shipped to Auschwitz but that doesn't count. He prolly just didn't know where he was to begin with. Or something.
Of course Nessie knows that only 15-20,000 deportees left Treblinka because he just knows. Let's apply a little of Nessie's famous "what ifs". "What if" there were more people transported out of Treblinka than what the handful of witnesses said? How does Nessie KNOW that only 15-20,000 left Treblinka?
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Post by Tribunus Laticlavius on Jan 18, 2022 10:11:51 GMT
"What if" there were more people transported out of Treblinka than what the handful of witnesses said? How does Nessie KNOW that only 15-20,000 left Treblinka? The poster is working on the information he has or wishes he had. Because it is evidence 12 thousand people left Treblinka II he is simply using that as a percentage out of the total claimed mass being exterminated. Those 12 thousand he knew nothing about like the number of camps the Reich had in Ostland or even Poland. He has done no more research than what he thought he knew 7 years ago. He is running with a framework that he holds sacred, and while we nibble away he is claiming the rest of the house of cards is true. I suggest there was a mechanism unknown of hundreds of thousands of people leaving that place or places. There is an interesting avenue of inquiry. One Treblinka surviver said that the Malkinia-Siedlce railway line stopped at Treblinka yet we know it continued all the way to Siedlce. I suspect the track was diverted through the camp or people loaded onto trains on the Southern side. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 18, 2022 11:48:13 GMT
Nessie wrote: Of course there's Kulawy and his trainload of men, women and children who got shipped to Auschwitz but that doesn't count. He prolly just didn't know where he was to begin with. Or something. Of course Nessie knows that only 15-20,000 deportees left Treblinka because he just knows. Let's apply a little of Nessie's famous "what ifs". "What if" there were more people transported out of Treblinka than what the handful of witnesses said? How does Nessie KNOW that only 15-20,000 left Treblinka? There is a thing called evidence. Evidence is how we find out what happened in the past. The evidence of transports back out of TII comes from witnesses who were on those transports and some documents from Majdanek. That evidence is then assessed to establish its accuracy. Some of the evidence is dismissed, because it cannot be reliably established that the witness was actually at TII.
The result is evidence that 6000-9500 left TII.
You know that, since it has been explained to you again and again and again. Instead, you make false claims about what I have said, a tactic you use in pretty much every single post you make in reply to one of mine.
So, how do you KNOW 15-20,000 deportees left TII? What evidence do you use? How do you assess that evidence for accuracy?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 18, 2022 11:56:39 GMT
"What if" there were more people transported out of Treblinka than what the handful of witnesses said? How does Nessie KNOW that only 15-20,000 left Treblinka? The poster is working on the information he has or wishes he had. Because it is evidence 12 thousand people left Treblinka II he is simply using that as a percentage out of the total claimed mass being exterminated. Those 12 thousand he knew nothing about like the number of camps the Reich had in Ostland or even Poland. He has done no more research than what he thought he knew 7 years ago. He is running with a framework that he holds sacred, and while we nibble away he is claiming the rest of the house of cards is true. I suggest there was a mechanism unknown of hundreds of thousands of people leaving that place or places. There is an interesting avenue of inquiry. One Treblinka surviver said that the Malkinia-Siedlce railway line stopped at Treblinka yet we know it continued all the way to Siedlce. I suspect the track was diverted through the camp or people loaded onto trains on the Southern side.
Here is the witness evidence of transports back out of TII
It is 40 people. We do not know if some were on the same transport, so it may be less than 40 transports. Most transports where a number transported was given, were of 100 to 300 people. The vast majority went to Majdanek, the rest to labour camps in Poland.
That is evidence of a worker selection process, not TII being a transit camp. The evidence is that TII was a death camp, part of AR and the mass theft of property and there were occasional selections. That is the same as at Sobibor, Belzec and similar to Birkenau and Chelmno.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 18, 2022 21:23:33 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Note that no numbers for deportees are given for entire trainloads. See "Kulawy" and "Lunski". There are others but that's enough to skew Nessie's number of deportees who left Treblinka. Neither do any of the witnesses claim to have seen, heard or smelled any events that could be associated with mass murder. Nobody reports being beaten, having the dogs sicced on them or otherwise being mistreated by the Germans. Some reported being given bread, soup or some ersatz coffee.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 19, 2022 15:24:20 GMT
Nessie wrote: Note that no numbers for deportees are given for entire trainloads. See "Kulawy" and "Lunski". There are others but that's enough to skew Nessie's number of deportees who left Treblinka. Neither do any of the witnesses claim to have seen, heard or smelled any events that could be associated with mass murder. Nobody reports being beaten, having the dogs sicced on them or otherwise being mistreated by the Germans. Some reported being given bread, soup or some ersatz coffee. Yet all the witnesses you can quote say TII was a death camp, which means they are liars and not credible and so you have no evidence TII was a transit camp. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 20, 2022 1:49:28 GMT
Nessie wrote:
I call bullshit. Not even all of the witnesses from the Hunt video declared Treblinka to be a "death camp". Then we have the guy who declared that he was sent to, "Majdanek, another death camp". Majdanek has now been taken off the death camp roster so was he lying or just mistakenly believing the wartime rumors?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 20, 2022 10:31:51 GMT
Nessie wrote: I call bullshit. Not even all of the witnesses from the Hunt video declared Treblinka to be a "death camp". Then we have the guy who declared that he was sent to, "Majdanek, another death camp". Majdanek has now been taken off the death camp roster so was he lying or just mistakenly believing the wartime rumors? They are the witnesses you claim are credible, so are you now ditching the guy who said Majdanek was a death camp?
It sounds like you have not read all the witness evidence, so how do you know they are credible and if any are claiming TII was a transit camp?
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 20, 2022 11:02:31 GMT
Piss off, Nessie. The guy who said that he was sent to "another death camp" was almost certainly repeating the rumors he had heard. About a 99% probability of that over him deliberately lying about Majdanek being a death camp. Was he lying about being sent from Treblinka to Majdanek? Of course not. Sell your "either or" claptrap down the street.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 20, 2022 11:49:13 GMT
Piss off, Nessie. The guy who said that he was sent to "another death camp" was almost certainly repeating the rumors he had heard. About a 99% probability of that over him deliberately lying about Majdanek being a death camp. Was he lying about being sent from Treblinka to Majdanek? Of course not. Sell your "either or" claptrap down the street. Name and quote your credible witnesses to TII being a transit camp. |
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Post by Tribunus Laticlavius on Jan 20, 2022 12:04:23 GMT
Name and quote your credible witnesses to TII being a transit camp. Here we go on the carousel again with the same question asked for a millionth time at least. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 20, 2022 12:10:46 GMT
Name and quote your credible witnesses to TII being a transit camp. Here we go on the carousel again with the same question asked for a millionth time at least. I know, when I ask Turnagain to detail his evidence he dodges, so I have to ask him again and again. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 20, 2022 13:16:32 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie accuses the Germans of mass murder and then tells me that I have to prove that the Germans didn't commit mass murder. When asked to asked to name and quote some witnesses he responds with the likes of Wiernik and Rajchman and claims that they aren't liars. They just made some "little mistakes" and "exaggerated" a little bit. Then he demands that everyone believe such tripe. Perhaps that plays at the Klown's forum but not at sites having ordinary posters.
Nessie is the one accusing the Germans of mass murder and so far he's failed miserably at proving that accusation.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 20, 2022 13:30:11 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie accuses the Germans of mass murder and then tells me that I have to prove that the Germans didn't commit mass murder. Your suggestion that I am reversing the burden of proof is false. I have accused the Nazis of mass murder and shown you evidence to prove that mass murder. You have alleged no mass murder and the AR camps were transit camps, for which you can only provide evidence that is actually evidence of worker selections, or evidence of mass transports which cannot be shown to have come from TII. You allege no mass cremations and graves, with no physical evidence to support your claims. Your methodology for assessing evidence is to think up excuses, based on logical fallacies, as to why you do not believe the evidence for mass gassings, cremations and graves. TII was an AR camp used for mass killings and property theft, with occasional worker selections. That is the same as the AR camps at Sobibor and Belzec. Most camps served more than one purpose, but basic histories only list the main purpose. That has confused you, when you find out that the basic history is, well basic, and there is actually a more detailed history to each camp. |
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