Turnagain
โ๏ธ
๐๐ผ๐ป๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฎ๐๐๐
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Jan 6, 2022 19:46:37 GMT
Nessie wrote:
I didn't say that I had "evidence". I said that your evidence is irrelevant. Those were show trials as were the Nuremberg marsupial escapades.
|
|
Nessie
๐ฆ
๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
Posts: 4,891
|
Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 19:50:13 GMT
Nessie wrote: I didn't say that I had "evidence". I said that your evidence is irrelevant. Those were show trials as were the Nuremberg marsupial escapades. You would find yourself in contempt of court, if you made various claims without any evidence, including claiming that your clients were liars and that the court was corrupt.
|
|
Turnagain
โ๏ธ
๐๐ผ๐ป๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฎ๐๐๐
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Jan 6, 2022 20:23:32 GMT
Nessie wrote:
What can't you understand about those show trials being politicized? The only questions allowed were of the " What was your part in the holyhoax?" sort. The question of whether or not the holyhoax was indeed a hoax didn't arise. You seem to be incapable of grasping the concept of a politicized show trial. Why can't you grasp such simple concepts as "show trials" or even "photographs"?
|
|
Agandaur
โ๏ธ
๐๐๐ญ๐ซ๐ข๐๐ข๐๐ง
Posts: 133
|
Post by Agandaur on Jan 6, 2022 20:25:26 GMT
I think Nessie wishes to discuss how it would proceed in a real court not the sham called the Nuremberg Military Tribunal.
|
|
Nessie
๐ฆ
๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
Posts: 4,891
|
Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 20:32:58 GMT
Nessie wrote: What can't you understand about those show trials being politicized? The only questions allowed were of the " What was your part in the holyhoax?" sort. The question of whether or not the holyhoax was indeed a hoax didn't arise. You seem to be incapable of grasping the concept of a politicized show trial. Why can't you grasp such simple concepts as "show trials" or even "photographs"? The Nazis had admitted to murder and there was evidence to corroborate their admissions, hence the trials progressed on the basis that the murders had happened. Many murder trails proceed with the murder accepted as fact. The court is examining the accused person's role in the murder.
The trials were the Nazis arguing that gassing Jews was not illegal and it was their duty at that time. They also argued that they had no choice in what was happening and they were acting under duress, a defence that worked at the Belzec trial, where all bar the camp commander was acquitted.
Their defences also worked at the other trials, in that they were found guilty, but largely given very light sentences, because it was accepted that at that time, they were acting under orders and did not believe what they were doing was wrong.
You have clearly read nothing about what happened at those trials.
|
|
Nessie
๐ฆ
๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
Posts: 4,891
|
Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 20:36:49 GMT
I think Nessie wishes to discuss how it would proceed in a real court not the sham called the Nuremberg Military Tribunal. The Nuremberg trials of senior Nazis was a series of Nazis denying their involvement in or knowledge of the mass gassings. None of them denied that mass gassings had taken place. The German trials of more junior Nazis, were of those who admitted to taking part in the gassings.
When revisionists position themselves as defence for the Nazis, they conveniently forget their clients either admitted to the gassings, or did not deny there had been gassings.
|
|
Turnagain
โ๏ธ
๐๐ผ๐ป๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฎ๐๐๐
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Jan 6, 2022 20:57:46 GMT
Nessie wrote:
How can a witness who denies knowledge of an event swear that the event didn't occur? Hoess was tortured into his confession but that's irrelevant to Nessie. A confession is a confession no matter the circumstances of it being made. Neither can Nessie grasp the concept of a politicized show trial.
Neither can Nessie grasp the concept that the Tibetan cremations, the Hindu cremations, the unknown method of cremation at Dresden and the alleged cremations at Treblinka weren't all the same. Hey, a grate is a grate and a cremation is a cremation. That about right, Nessie?
|
|
๐๐๐จ๐ญ๐ญ
๐ฆ
๐๐ฆ๐ฉ๐๐ซ๐๐ญ๐จ๐ซ ๐๐ญ ๐๐จ๐ฆ๐๐ง๐ฎ๐ฌ
Posts: 165
|
Post by ๐๐๐จ๐ญ๐ญ on Jan 6, 2022 21:06:32 GMT
You always forget about the evidence, since your beliefs are not dependent on evidence. If Nessie continues on his mantra of evidencing which is a cosmic ideal he will be confined to his Oasis where he can moderate his own demise. This is Nessie's Space and he is the moderator here, so I think he should be allowed to argue as he wishes. We do not have to be convinced by those arguments, of course.
|
|
๐๐๐จ๐ญ๐ญ
๐ฆ
๐๐ฆ๐ฉ๐๐ซ๐๐ญ๐จ๐ซ ๐๐ญ ๐๐จ๐ฆ๐๐ง๐ฎ๐ฌ
Posts: 165
|
Post by ๐๐๐จ๐ญ๐ญ on Jan 6, 2022 21:56:53 GMT
The founding mythology for the postwar governments of the defeated nations was determined by the Victors and their postwar collaborators. [...]  Germans, being tried by other Germans in West Germany, was the perfect time for those Germans to challenge lies about what had happened at the AR camps.
If the Nazis had won WWII, they would have put many Allied soldiers on trial for war crimes, such as the bombing of Dresden, but not for running a death camp system that murdered millions, because there was no evidence that the Allies did that.
You always forget about the evidence, since your beliefs are not dependent on evidence.
You are assuming that Germans ever got their national sovereignty back, which โ with regards to War Guilt and what we now call the Holocaust โ is not the case. Even in the Unites States today, if you in all seriousness call for both sides of the Holocaust to be presented in the classroom, you will hit a hurricane of outrage from the Left and from the Jewish lobby, which overwhelmingly owns the corporate media โ and then you will lose your job. Even tenured college professors like Arthur Butz at Northwestern have to stay silent on the subject. But in the United States, which nominally has the First Amendment, at least you will not be prosecuted by the State for Thoughtcrime, and then fined and jailed, as is the case in countries like Germany. General Curtis LeMay, who devised the Combat Box technique where B-17 bombers protected each other in formation with their guns while bombing Germany, and the tactic of fire-bombing of Japanese cities at low level with incendiaries at night โ tactics which killed tens of thousands of civilians โ admitted as much, i.e., what you said above about how he, himself would have been considered a War Criminal had the Americans lost the war. The retired former Chief of Staff of the Air Force, who was a critic of the Kennedy and Johnson policies in Vietnam, made these comments at the Airpower Symposium at Maxwell Air Force Base in 1978. I was a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol at the time and have a copy of those Proceedings (LINK). The American Army Air Force dropped leaflets asking Japanese civilians to evacuate their cities so that they would not get hurt, but I doubt this would have cut much ice at a Nuremberg type of show-trial, had the Americans lost the war and General LeMay been put on the dock. In fact, General LeMay understood that the whole point of strategic bombing is to harm the people who work for and support their government โ and the threat of being able to bomb the enemy into the Stone Age is a credible threat that provided a huge deterrent later during the Cold War. It can be debated how effective Strategic Bombing actually was, and the moral implications of war in general, but old "Iron Ass" remarked in his old age at the Airpower Symposium that the firebombing of Japanese cities actually killed more than the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and yet the two atomic bombings were what everybody was butthurt about. Below: Generals Norstad, LeMay, and Power fixing to light up some Jap cities. Nobody is contesting that the Americans and British bombed German and Japanese cities into smithereens. But people do contest the existence of Nazi homicidal gas-chambers โ and yes, I do pay close attention to the evidence one way or another for such extraordinary claims.
|
|
Nessie
๐ฆ
๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
Posts: 4,891
|
Post by Nessie on Jan 7, 2022 13:03:13 GMT
Nessie wrote: How can a witness who denies knowledge of an event swear that the event didn't occur? Hoess was tortured into his confession but that's irrelevant to Nessie. A confession is a confession no matter the circumstances of it being made. Neither can Nessie grasp the concept of a politicized show trial. Neither can Nessie grasp the concept that the Tibetan cremations, the Hindu cremations, the unknown method of cremation at Dresden and the alleged cremations at Treblinka weren't all the same. Hey, a grate is a grate and a cremation is a cremation. That about right, Nessie? You are dodging my point. You claim no gassings, but the Nazis claim there were gassings. Any court would laugh at your ridiculousness!
|
|
Nessie
๐ฆ
๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
Posts: 4,891
|
Post by Nessie on Jan 7, 2022 13:09:10 GMT
Germans, being tried by other Germans in West Germany, was the perfect time for those Germans to challenge lies about what had happened at the AR camps.
If the Nazis had won WWII, they would have put many Allied soldiers on trial for war crimes, such as the bombing of Dresden, but not for running a death camp system that murdered millions, because there was no evidence that the Allies did that.
You always forget about the evidence, since your beliefs are not dependent on evidence.
You are assuming that Germans ever got their national sovereignty back, which โ with regards to War Guilt and what we now call the Holocaust โ is not the case. Even in the Unites States today, if you in all seriousness call for both sides of the Holocaust to be presented in the classroom, you will hit a hurricane of outrage from the Left and from the Jewish lobby, which overwhelmingly owns the corporate media โ and then you will lose your job. Even tenured college professors like Arthur Butz at Northwestern have to stay silent on the subject. But in the United States, which nominally has the First Amendment, at least you will not be prosecuted by the State for Thoughtcrime, and then fined and jailed, as is the case in countries like Germany. General Curtis LeMay, who devised the Combat Box technique where B-17 bombers protected each other in formation with their guns while bombing Germany, and the tactic of fire-bombing of Japanese cities at low level with incendiaries at night โ tactics which killed tens of thousands of civilians โ admitted as much, i.e., what you said above about how he, himself would have been considered a War Criminal had the Americans lost the war. The retired former Chief of Staff of the Air Force, who was a critic of the Kennedy and Johnson policies in Vietnam, made these comments at the Airpower Symposium at Maxwell Air Force Base in 1978. I was a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol at the time and have a copy of those Proceedings (LINK). The American Army Air Force dropped leaflets asking Japanese civilians to evacuate their cities so that they would not get hurt, but I doubt this would have cut much ice at a Nuremberg type of show-trial, had the Americans lost the war and General LeMay been put on the dock. In fact, General LeMay understood that the whole point of strategic bombing is to harm the people who work for and support their government โ and the threat of being able to bomb the enemy into the Stone Age is a credible threat that provided a huge deterrent later during the Cold War. It can be debated how effective Strategic Bombing actually was, and the moral implications of war in general, but old "Iron Ass" remarked in his old age at the Airpower Symposium that the firebombing of Japanese cities actually killed more than the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and yet the two atomic bombings were what everybody was butthurt about. Below: Generals Norstad, LeMay, and Power fixing to light up some Jap cities. Nobody is contesting that the Americans and British bombed German and Japanese cities into smithereens. But people do contest the existence of Nazi homicidal gas-chambers โ and yes, I do pay close attention to the evidence one way or another for such extraordinary claims. Thank you for your support on the forum.
Your posts, as always are very interesting, but the topic is how would you defend the Nazis in court? The AR and Chelmno camp trials were of 41 Nazis, all of whom admitted to gassings. How would you defend your client, when he has admitted the crime?
|
|
Turnagain
โ๏ธ
๐๐ผ๐ป๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฎ๐๐๐
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Jan 7, 2022 13:54:05 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Link to the trial transcripts.
|
|
Nessie
๐ฆ
๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
Posts: 4,891
|
Post by Nessie on Jan 7, 2022 14:06:56 GMT
Nessie wrote: Link to the trial transcripts. They are not online, that I can find. Their admissions are quoted in many sources, such as;
|
|
Turnagain
โ๏ธ
๐๐ผ๐ป๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฎ๐๐๐
Posts: 2,302
|
Post by Turnagain on Jan 7, 2022 14:33:23 GMT
Nessie wrote:
So, no transcripts of the court proceedings. Imagine that. We have only excerpts from the holocaust research project. HRP can't be trusted any further than I can spit a rat. HRP claims to be quoting from transcripts so why can't the transcripts from the trials be found?
|
|
Nessie
๐ฆ
๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
Posts: 4,891
|
Post by Nessie on Jan 7, 2022 15:18:31 GMT
Nessie wrote: So, no transcripts of the court proceedings. Imagine that. We have only excerpts from the holocaust research project. HRP can't be trusted any further than I can spit a rat. HRP claims to be quoting from transcripts so why can't the transcripts from the trials be found? If you want to see the original court transcripts, search the German archives.
Decent Germans, who wanted to restore the reputation of Germany, wanted to prosecute Nazis for their war crimes;
"In order to conduct the investigation of Nazi crimes on a more systematic basis, the justice ministers of the West German states decided in October 1958 to establish an agency devoted to investigating and documenting them. 129 Headquartered in Ludwigsburg in Baden- Wรผrttemberg, the agency bore the cumbersome title of โthe Central Office of the State Judicial Administrations for the Investigation of National Socialist Violent Crimesโ (โCentral Officeโ)."
There are plenty of other sources for what happened during the various trials.
|
|