Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 11, 2022 16:11:45 GMT
Nessie wrote: Going by your numbers, if there were 10 graves it would total 3,320 meters of grave. That's ~3.3 km. That's amusing. You've apparently forgotten about the stockpiles of ex. It would take at least 11 square meters of single cone stockpile per meter of grave or another 36,520 square meters or 3.65 hectares and a total of 6.3 hectares. Neither does that account for the necessary top cover for the graves. Neither does it account for the walkways necessary to access the graves. The size of the graves necessary to bury 700,000+ cadavers is just an "opinion"? It doesn't actually have anything to do with the claims made for Treblinka as an extermination facility? I'm beginning to think that b-t's questioning of your sanity is realistic.
You are having to estimate how many decomposed bodies fit in a certain space. Your suggestion of one grave 3.3km long is stupid and ignores the witness claims of multiple graves. You are assuming all of the stockpile was piled next to the graves and none of it was taken away, purely because no witness mentions what happened to it. Estimations and assumptions mean opinions.
You like playing the how many graves would fit game, because you think it makes you a player. In fact, it is just some calculations you use to support your argument from incredulity. In the real world, you need evidence.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 11, 2022 16:16:38 GMT
It would explain the history of the camps, the surrounding history of CO gas chambers, chemical examination of CO as a killing gas. Timings , volume, what it would need, what results one could hope to obtain with available and existing technologies. It will thus be evidential in building a logical foundation to the mass murder allowing mock up test runs to be carried out. Then of course one could try studying the technical issues of the disposal too. this would be evidence of the possibility of the event and exactly to what extent it was possible. Which would obviously have to conducted by independent experts and not deniers. Jean-Claude Pressac attempted what you suggest, but even though he approached the subject with a great deal of scepticism and has been referred to as a denier, he changed his mind, so deniers reject his findings, as he says what they do not want to hear. Mattogno is both a denier and not an expert, so his claims can be rejected as not independent.
Evidentially, such a report would be of limited value, because it would have to make assumptions and fill in gaps in our knowledge. Depending on who wrote the report, the conclusion could be both mass gassings were possible and not possible. So, it would not be a reliable indicator.
Why? That's silly. That's a lie. They reject it because it's rubbish. He expected that nazis planned to have the natural death rate exceed the unnatural rate. And despite his conjectures the actual documents show that even after the alleged transform into homicide areas the vent system remained as it was for normal morgues and the undressing hall was ventilated more strongly, not less. And the krema 2 "gas chamber " was not operational when it was supposed to be gassing people. No that is wrong Mattogno is an expert. There's no one more expert excepting Rudolf on the chemistry side. Again that's wrong. All science makes a number of assumptions in its theory before designing experiments to test them out. The conclusion could be 50/50 or it could slant heavily in one direction. So again that's just wrong. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 11, 2022 16:22:21 GMT
Nessie wrote: Going by your numbers, if there were 10 graves it would total 3,320 meters of grave. That's ~3.3 km. That's amusing. You've apparently forgotten about the stockpiles of ex. It would take at least 11 square meters of single cone stockpile per meter of grave or another 36,520 square meters or 3.65 hectares and a total of 6.3 hectares. Neither does that account for the necessary top cover for the graves. Neither does it account for the walkways necessary to access the graves. The size of the graves necessary to bury 700,000+ cadavers is just an "opinion"? It doesn't actually have anything to do with the claims made for Treblinka as an extermination facility? I'm beginning to think that b-t's questioning of your sanity is realistic.
You are having to estimate how many decomposed bodies fit in a certain space. Your suggestion of one grave 3.3km long is stupid and ignores the witness claims of multiple graves. You are assuming all of the stockpile was piled next to the graves and none of it was taken away, purely because no witness mentions what happened to it.ย Estimations and assumptions mean opinions.
You like playing the how many graves would fit game, because you think it makes you a player. In fact, it is just some calculations you use to support your argument from incredulity. In the real world, you need evidence.
No wrong. If you say you could fit yourself in a standard shoebox right now I don't need evidence to say otherwise. I already have the elementary facts of mass and weight in the universe surrounding me that lead directly to a different conclusion. |
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nazgul
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Post by nazgul on Jun 11, 2022 19:11:31 GMT
Your doubts and inability to work out what happened to the ex, is not evidence. It is argument from incredulity. Your ability to accept obvious lies and falsehoods as fact is somewhat glaring.  |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 12, 2022 1:36:07 GMT
Nessie wrote:
The Germans didn't wait for the bodies to decompose before they buried them. Eight cadavers per cubic meter is more than generous. The most bodies recovered from a cubic meter of mass grave was half or less than that number.
I didn't say that the grave was 2.7km long. I said that the total length of the graves would be 2.7km long. That accurately depicts the size of the graves rather than trying to estimate how many graves actually existed. You claim that the surface area of the graves would equal 2.6 hectares is based on the total surface area of the graves and doesn't account for the area of the stockpile or any area between the graves. IOW, you're positing one (1) large grave.
The cubic content of the graves that could be dug by the M&H dragline is known. That is known from calculations and corroborated by photos of the draglines working in the T-I quarry. That is factual evidence not an argument from incredulity. You have admitted that by claiming that some mystery machine dug and stockpiled the graves while all of your experts declared that the M&H machines dug the graves.
You are now positing that the M&H draglines dug the graves but some mystery machines are hauling the ex away from T-II and storing it in some unknown location. You are imposing your "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" on the supposed facts of what happened at Treblinka. You have claimed that some mystery machine dug and stockpiled the ex from the graves. You're now claiming that although the M&H draglines dug the graves some mystery machines are hauling the ex away to some unknown location where it will be stored until it's needed to refill the graves after the exhumations.
First Nessie claims that a mystery machine dug and stockpiled the graves. Now the M&H draglines dug the graves but a different mystery machine(s) hauled the ex away to some unknown location. Apparently the same mystery machine(s) haul the ex back to T-II from the unknown location to refill the graves after the exhumations.
Then we have the clamshell equipped dragline mysteriously capable of exhuming whole cadavers from the graves. Nessie tries to claim that the dragline only removed the soil from the graves and the sonnderkommandos exhumed the cadavers but that's contradicted by too many witnesses so that disappears down the memory hole.
Then we have Nessie's mysterious exothermic cremation process. Nessie tries to explain that by claiming that the cadavers were merely charred beyond recognition. He apparently retracts that since witnesses claim that the carbonized bones were beaten, sifted and then beaten into a powder. One witness claims that the carbonized bones were laid out on sheets of tin and beaten with clubs while Rajchman claims that the carbonized bones were beaten to a powder "as fine as cigarette ash".
Nessie now claims to have "geophysical evidence" that all of that actually occurred. Anything else is just "opinion" and an "argument from incredulity".
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 12, 2022 7:53:21 GMT
Your doubts and inability to work out what happened to the ex, is not evidence. It is argument from incredulity. Your ability to accept obvious lies and falsehoods as fact is somewhat glaring. I use corroboration to assess witness evidence and understand normal witness behaviour. You reject everything that does not suit your desired belief. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 12, 2022 7:57:15 GMT
Nessie wrote: The Germans didn't wait for the bodies to decompose before they buried them..... You don't need to keep on repeating your arguments from incredulity, I know them well. Once you have rejected all the evidence that does not suit you, we have a camp that few arrived at, no one was killed at and then c860,000 people left!!!!
Your inability to be logical is why you keep on using fallacies and you cannot see how your claims about the evidence fall apart.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 12, 2022 9:27:34 GMT
But Nessie, what about your mystery machine(s) that moved the ex from Treblinka to an unknown location now that your mystery machine that dug and stockpiled the ex has mysteriously disappeared? Neither have you explained the mysterious and secret exothermic cremation process developed by the eeevul Narzis. Why is it illogical of me to want an explanation for such mysteries?
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 12, 2022 9:27:41 GMT
Nessie wrote: The Germans didn't wait for the bodies to decompose before they buried them..... You don't need to keep on repeating your arguments from incredulity, I know them well. Once you have rejected all the evidence that does not suit you, we have a camp that few arrived at, no one was killed at and then c860,000 people left!!!!
Your inability to be logical is why you keep on using fallacies and you cannot see how your claims about the evidence fall apart.
Killing people at these camps is not logical. Nor does the evidence point to it. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 12, 2022 9:32:03 GMT
Your ability to accept obvious lies and falsehoods as fact is somewhat glaring. I use corroboration to assess witness evidence and understand normal witness behaviour. You reject everything that does not suit your desired belief. In fact you use baseless speculation to try and cover for problems with the testimony while ignoring hard evidence and trying to paint normal documents as sinister evidence of foul play. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 12, 2022 13:40:41 GMT
But Nessie, what about your mystery machine(s) that moved the ex from Treblinka to an unknown location now that your mystery machine that dug and stockpiled the ex has mysteriously disappeared? Neither have you explained the mysterious and secret exothermic cremation process developed by the eeevul Narzis. Why is it illogical of me to want an explanation for such mysteries? Not knowing the exact make and model of an excavator is not a great mystery. Neither is cremating corpses on a pyre. Just because you cannot work out how it was done, and you reject any explanation, means nothing evidentially.
You happily believe in the miracle of transporting and accommodating millions of people, without leaving any evidence of that happening. So, you grasp of logic is poor.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jun 12, 2022 13:41:59 GMT
I use corroboration to assess witness evidence and understand normal witness behaviour. You reject everything that does not suit your desired belief. In fact you use baseless speculation to try and cover for problems with the testimony while ignoring hard evidence and trying to paint normal documents as sinister evidence of foul play.
What hard evidence? All I get from deniers is arguments using logical fallacies.
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 12, 2022 14:06:13 GMT
In fact you use baseless speculation to try and cover for problems with the testimony while ignoring hard evidence and trying to paint normal documents as sinister evidence of foul play.
What hard evidence? All I get from deniers is arguments using logical fallacies.
Like documents about financial arrangements. The arrangement of the graves. The bodies actually found. The fact belzec wasn't secret. The fact that stupid stories surrounded it. the lack of bodies, the lack of a reason or a reason. |
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mrolonzo
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Post by mrolonzo on Jun 12, 2022 14:06:59 GMT
But Nessie, what about your mystery machine(s) that moved the ex from Treblinka to an unknown location now that your mystery machine that dug and stockpiled the ex has mysteriously disappeared? Neither have you explained the mysterious and secret exothermic cremation process developed by the eeevul Narzis. Why is it illogical of me to want an explanation for such mysteries? Not knowing the exact make and model of an excavator is not a great mystery. Neither is cremating corpses on a pyre. Just because you cannot work out how it was done, and you reject any explanation, means nothing evidentially.
You happily believe in the miracle of transporting and accommodating millions of people, without leaving any evidence of that happening. So, you grasp of logic is poor.
No it is a great mystery. It's supposed to have existed. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jun 12, 2022 14:15:34 GMT
Nessie wrote: But Nessie, all of your heroes say that the M&H excavators from T-I were used to dig and stockpile the graves. You seemed to agree with that but now you seem to be back to the mystery machine digging the graves and stockpiling the ex. Are you going to stick with a mystery machine(s) hauling the ex away from T-II or is that memory holed in favor of your original mystery excavator? Did a mystery excavator dig the graves and stockpile the ex or did the M&H draglines dig the graves and mystery machine(s) haul the ex away to the unknown stockpile? That's true. I can't work out the secret of the eeevul Narzis exothermic cremation process. By all means, tell me how they did that. I promise if you can explain the secret of the self cremating cadavers I'll believe it. I'm sure that all of the crematory operators and especially the Hindus would like to hear the secret, too. Save them no end of fuel that they're needlessly burning to cremate the dead. From a different thread, see: forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14552 |
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