Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 10:35:41 GMT
.... The reality is that despite his constant call for โevidenceโ from others, he himself has no โevidenceโ that the bodies burnt on grates in China or Dresden or Treblinka were reduced to ashes (cremated) and were not mostly carbonised. ..... Evidence for ashes, as in cremains, as opposed to "carbonised" bodies at the Dresden Altmarkt cremations here; web.archive.org/web/20140502040509/http://www.cpgg.info/docs/schlussmeldung_dresden1945.htm"In consideration of the rapidly advancing decomposition and the existing extraordinary difficulties with the rescue, as well as the lack of suitable vehicles for the transfer to cemeteries with the approval of the Gauleiter and the city administration on the Altmarkt a total of 6,865 dead cremated. The ashes of the fallen were transferred to a cemetery." Evidence for TII here; etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/3531/1/SturdyColls12PhD.pdfI do not have evidence as to what state the Tibetan corpses were reduced to, but it is normal that outdoor pyres reduce the body to ashes, mixed in with the ashes from the wood. www.us-funerals.com/outdoor-cremations/"...as there is no way to separate the human ashes from the wood ash, the family receives about five gallons of ashes."
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 6, 2022 18:16:25 GMT
Yep, it's claimed that some bodies were cremated at Dresden. Nessie can't know if even the minuscule space underneath the pile of bodies is filled with wood but goes on to claim that the pile of bodies photographed at Dresden were the cadavers that were cremated. Nessie doesn't even differentiate between a pyre and a pile of bodies. Nessie has lost contact with reality.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 19:18:38 GMT
Yep, it's claimed that some bodies were cremated at Dresden. It is evidenced by a document and photos. You can't know if it was an empty space. The evidence of cremations makes my assumption more likely than yours Your assertion that the document and photos, which are both of cremations the Altmarkt, Dresden after the air raid, are unconnected is bizarre. Calling a pile of bodies on top of a grate, above wood, a pyre, is not unreasonable.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 19:25:48 GMT
Another document about the cremations; holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/06/on-revisionist-error-nitpicking-7.htmlStAD, Marstall- und Bestattungsamt, Nachtrag I - Schreiben, 4.3.1945 "Thousands of corpses still had to be retrieved and buried. A task that the available forces were not up to: thus, after Gauleiter and city administration had agreed, corpses were collected on the sealed-off Altmarkt, registered and finally burned. This happened ยปin consideration of the quickly progressing decomposition and the existing extraordinary difficulties in retrieving [the corpses] as well as the lack of suitable vehicles for transportation to cemeteriesยซ, was stated in the Order Police's final report. For two weeks the old market place in the city center became a crematorium. On 5 March the corpses collected in the streets had been retrieved, the pyres gone out. ยปBy my estimate, 8 - 10 cubic meters of ash lay on the Altmarktยซ, was reported to the city administration the day before. ยปThe Brigadefรผhrer wished that this ash be loaded into recipients (boxes or sacks) and transported to the Heidefriedhof, where it is to be sunk into the earth at the place marked in lead on the map. It is not necessary to leave the boxes or sacks in the soil. You shall thus pour the ash from the transport recipients into the soil, so that the recipients can be reused several times. Transport should start on Tuesday."
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 19:42:49 GMT
There is also a witness, a Dr Max Funfack, who became involved in the Irvine/Lipstadt libel trial, over estimations of how many died at Dresden. During the trial, the doctor was quoted and in the quote said www.hdot.org/day13/"I myself was only once present at a cremation on the Altmarkt, but otherwise completely uninvolved." Numerous photos, two documents and a witness to cremations at the Altmarkt.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 19:45:38 GMT
The photographer was Walter Hahn www-slub--dresden-de.translate.goog/entdecken/kunst-fotografie-design/deutsche-fotothek/fotografen/hahn?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc"In 1920 Hahn became self-employed as a photographer and turned to landscape photography (Saxon Switzerland, Eastern Ore Mountains, Lusatian Mountains, Alps); Around 1930, architectural photography was another focus. He is famous for his aerial photos of Dresden, almost all Saxon cities and Saxon Switzerland. His postcards, which were always sold as hand prints, are sought-after collector's items. The photographer will always be associated with the city through his photos of the destroyed Dresden and not least through the documentation of the corpses cremation on the Altmarkt in 1945."
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 6, 2022 20:09:51 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie has no photo(s) of cremated bodies. Nessie is still out of touch with reality.
Nessie has no photo(s) of cremated cadavers but claims his assumption is better than my statement that it's unknown what's under the pile of bodies. Nessie still can't reconcile his fantasies and reality.
Nobody has denied the credibility of the document stating that a limited number of cadavers were cremated at Dresden. That's just another of your fantasies. You have no photo(s) of any cremated bodies at Dresden. You have a colorized photo, IOW an admittedly altered photo, that shows what purports to be flames along the bottom of the pile of bodies. Your claim that you have photos of cremated bodies at Dresden is just another of your fantasies.
No, it's an ignorant misuse of the English language. Your inability to accept that you made such an error is further proof of your derangement.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 20:17:48 GMT
.... Your claim that you have photos of cremated bodies at Dresden is just another of your fantasies. .... There was a poster called Werd, who thought it was OK to make multiple false accusations about what I had supposedly said. I started to pin him down on his multiple false accusations. Link to and quote me stating that there are "photos of cremated bodies at Dresden" or apologise for yet another strawman claim. Every time you use a strawman fallacy, it will be pointed out to you, so you know just how much you are unable to argue against what I have actually said. Maybe then, you will understand just how bad your arguments are.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 6, 2022 20:42:59 GMT
Nessie wrote:
OK, I misunderstood you. You admit that you don't have any photos of cremated bodies at the Altmarkt. IOW, you have no proof that the piles of bodies are the bodies that were cremated at Dresden. Glad we have that cleared up.
However, from your link:
So, you claim not to have any photos of cremated bodies and then you link to a source who claims there are photos of the cremated cadavers. Which is it?
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Post by Nessie on Jan 7, 2022 13:01:46 GMT
Nessie wrote: OK, I misunderstood you. You admit that you don't have any photos of cremated bodies at the Altmarkt. IOW, you have no proof that the piles of bodies are the bodies that were cremated at Dresden. Glad we have that cleared up. You were yet again caught making dishonest claims about what I said. Only in your head is the evidence of the photos and the documents not connected. Only in your head did the Nazis pile bodies on grates made of rails and then separately cremate bodies by another means in the Altmarkt. The link does not say there are photos of the cremated bodies. It refers to cremations, and the photos show the start of the process. You clearly have a problem with your reading and comprehension. How did the Nazis cremate thousands of bodies at the Altmarkt?
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 7, 2022 15:38:01 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Note that the estimate is of ash that lay on the Altmarkt not under the I-beams. Ten cubic meters of ash would equal about 610,000 cubic inches which would at one cubic inch of ash equaling one pound of flesh be right in the ballpark for the 6,800 cadavers cremated at Dresden. What's being described are bodies laid out on the ground, gasoline poured on their clothes and set alight. Ash would be the carbonized cadavers since nobody claimed that the bodies were pulverized into cremains, a finely granulated substance.
All of which knocks your cockamamie claim that the pile of cadavers were cremated by a minuscule amount of imaginary wood under the I-beams into a cocked hat.
You DON'T have any photos of cremated bodies at Dresden. That is a fact not a "dishonest claim".
Only in your head is the obviously altered by colorization photo proof of anything beyond it being a photograph. Why don't the black and white photos of the same pile of bodies show flames?
Nessie puts his ignorance of the English language on display once again. What part of "...THROUGH the documentation of the corpses cremation..." don't you understand?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 7, 2022 16:02:30 GMT
Nessie wrote: Note that the estimate is of ash that lay on the Altmarkt not under the I-beams. Since the bodies on the beams were in the Altmarkt, you have no evidence to say that the ashes reported were not what was left after those piles of bodies had been cremated. Where is your evidence that the Germans cremated the corpses by simply pouring petrol over them and setting them alight? You are yet again misrepresenting what I said. I have agreed with you there are no photos, other than the pyres before they were set alight and after they were set alight, as they were smoking or it may be steam rising as the bodies dry out. This image has bright spots below and in the pyre, which will be flames and note the piles of ash next to the pyre.
This is the same image, flipped, cropped and colourised.
It is not unreasonable to call a photo of a pile of bodies on fire, a photo of a cremation. Now show me your evidence that the bodies piled up in the photos, are not the bodies that were cremated.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 7, 2022 16:33:58 GMT
Nessie wrote:
More of Nessie's fantasies. Look no further than a search for "black and white photos of bonfires" to see how flames appear in black and white film.
IOW it has no value as a historical document. At least you agree that the photo has been altered.
There's no proven photo of the pile of bodies are burning. Hey, even if the photo has been altered, Nessie still considers it good evidence. Just as the wacko testimonies of Wiernik and Rajchman were just little mistakes and exaggerations.
The proof that the pile of bodies aren't cadavers being cremated is the impossibility of cremating such a number of cadavers with the minuscule amount of wood that may or may not be under the grate. Nessie is back to the ever so clever but eeevul Narzis knew how to get 'er done.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 7, 2022 16:52:48 GMT
It is not believable that the Nazis piled bodies on grates to just leave them to decompose, and then cremated bodies lying around the Altmarkt by pouring petrol over them. It is also not evidenced.
Just because you do not think a pyre set by piling bodies on a grate over wood is possible, does not therefore mean it is impossible. The cremations referred to by the documents and witness are obviously the bodies piled on the grates. The two photos above show the piles of ashes those cremations produced.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 7, 2022 18:12:16 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Of course it's believable that the Germans piled bodies as a backlog to transporting them for burial. Cadavers were recovered and brought to the Altmarkt faster than they could be transported to burial facilities. The lack of transport is documented.
No, cremating a pile of bodies 8-10 feet high with a minuscule amount of wood isn't possible. Even your claim that the wood actually existed remains unevidenced.
The Tibetan mass cremation shows a single layer of cadavers suspended over a pit filled with combustibles at least 1.5 meters deep with even with more fuel piled on top of the cadavers. Hindus use 3-400 lbs of cured firewood to cremate a single cadaver by placing the cadaver directly on the pyre. Your claim that the eeevul Narzis could cremate thousands with a tiny amount of fuel is idiotic. Like the little boy riding his tricycle to the moon, it didn't happen.
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