Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 3, 2022 15:51:47 GMT
Your opinion the photos are forgeries is you thinking up excuses to dismiss evidence that is contrary to your desired belief.
The photos in colour could very well have been tampered with to show flames . That is not expressing an opinion but stating a fact of possibility, plus one of high probability. The problem with discussing with this person is his argument is logically inconsistent, frequently does complete u-turns whilst still maintaining it to be correct, and โ as here โ does not even comprehend simple word definitions. It is theoretically possible for those photos to have been faked or tampered with. Turnagain has admitted his belief is an unevidenced opinion. I do not accept unevidenced opinions. Until Turnagain or anyone else can evidence those photos were faked or tampered with, then I accept they show what happened at Dresden in the Altmarkt, after the 1945 air raid, since there is evidence from a document that cremations took place there. Who faked the pyres? The Nazis, to make the Allied air raid appear even more unjustifiable and wrong? Or someone else? |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 3, 2022 15:52:57 GMT
Nessie wrote:
It's laughable that Nessie, who has made excuses for every facet of the Treblinka holyhoax tales, is now accusing me of thinking up excuses to dismiss evidence.
As far as I know, the photos of scenes at the Altmarkt were shot in black and white. The photo showing flames has obviously been colorized. IOW, the photo has been altered. What and how much was added to the photo besides color is unknown. Why does a black and white photo of the same pile of bodies show only smoke arising from the pile? I think it reasonable to question the reliability of these photos as accurate historical documents.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 3, 2022 16:14:06 GMT
Nessie wrote: It's laughable that Nessie, who has made excuses for every facet of the Treblinka holyhoax tales, is now accusing me of thinking up excuses to dismiss evidence. You now go on to to prove me correct, as you explain your excuses.... You are not questioning the reliability of the photos for a genuine reason. You are questioning their reliability because they show something you have been claiming for years is physically impossible, as part of your argument from incredulity. You cannot face being wrong. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 3, 2022 17:01:31 GMT
Now Nessie is a psychiatrist, divining my deepest, darkest thoughts. Who knew? At any rate, the pile of bodies shown at Dresden wouldn't be burned to the point of nothing but carbonized bones and teeth. Whether or not the photo showing the bodies smoking and the colorized photo are forgeries is a legitimate question. It's your opinion that all of the photos are accurate and reliable historical documents. In my opinion, not so much.
Here is the definition of "cremation" by Webster's dictionary. CREMATE verb
creยทโmate | \ หkrฤ-หmฤt
, kri-หmฤt
\cremated; cremating
transitive verb
: to subject to cremation especially : to reduce (a dead body) to mostly tiny bits of bones resembling ash through exposure to flame and intense heat followed by pulverization of bone fragments.
That is opposed to simply subjecting a body (bodies) to heat for hygienic reasons resulting in partially burned or charred bodies. Did the person who wrote the document about cremation at the Altmarkt actually mean a complete cremation with attendant pulverization of the bones or did he mean that bodies were simply charred to prevent disease?
PS. How about practicing some correct English and differentiating between a pyre and a pile of cadavers? |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 3, 2022 18:18:32 GMT
Now Nessie is a psychiatrist, divining my deepest, darkest thoughts. Who knew? At any rate, the pile of bodies shown at Dresden wouldn't be burned to the point of nothing but carbonized bones and teeth. Whether or not the photo showing the bodies smoking and the colorized photo are forgeries is a legitimate question. It's your opinion that all of the photos are accurate and reliable historical documents. In my opinion, not so much.
Here is the definition of "cremation" by Webster's dictionary. CREMATE verb
creยทโmate | \ หkrฤ-หmฤt
, kri-หmฤt
\cremated; cremating
transitive verb
: to subject to cremation especially : to reduce (a dead body) to mostly tiny bits of bones resembling ash through exposure to flame and intense heat followed by pulverization of bone fragments.
That is opposed to simply subjecting a body (bodies) to heat for hygienic reasons resulting in partially burned or charred bodies. Did the person who wrote the document about cremation at the Altmarkt actually mean a complete cremation with attendant pulverization of the bones or did he mean that bodies were simply charred to prevent disease?
PS. How about practicing some correct English and differentiating between a pyre and a pile of cadavers? Where is your evidence the bodies were being treated for hygienic reasons?
The document states "ashes", so that is evidence to say the cremations resulted in more than just charred bodies.
I am calling it a pyre because of evidence it was a cremation. Where is your evidence it was just a pile of corpses, awaiting removal?
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 5, 2022 10:04:05 GMT
Nessie wrote:
You are calling it a pyre because you're ignorant of the definition of the word, "pyre". The bodies were placed in piles because of a lack of transport to move them to a graveyard. That was said in the document. A limited number of bodies were burned as putrefaction threatened disease.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 5, 2022 15:14:12 GMT
Nessie wrote: You are calling it a pyre because you're ignorant of the definition of the word, "pyre". The bodies were placed in piles because of a lack of transport to move them to a graveyard. That was said in the document. A limited number of bodies were burned as putrefaction threatened disease. A reminder of what the document stated;
"In consideration of the rapidly advancing decomposition and the existing extraordinary difficulties with the rescue, as well as the lack of suitable vehicles for the transfer to cemeteries with the approval of the Gauleiter and the city administration on the Altmarkt a total of 6,865 dead cremated. The ashes of the fallen were transferred to a cemetery."
They had no transport for the bodies, which were decomposing. So they burnt the bodies and transported the ashes to the cemetery. The official death toll is c24,000, so about 28% of all of the dead were cremated at the Altmarkt. That is not a limited number of bodies.
The posts here also shows mass cremations using metal grates over wood, after a 2010 earthquake in China.
That further undermines your claims such pyres are not physically possible.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 5, 2022 17:08:54 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Are you claiming that the grate for the cremation of cadavers in China are the same as the grates in the Altmarkt or the alleged grates at Treblinka?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 5, 2022 17:18:46 GMT
Nessie wrote: Are you claiming that the grate for the cremation of cadavers in China are the same as the grates in the Altmarkt or the alleged grates at Treblinka?
Not the same, similar to. Dresden, Tibet and the AR camps were all cremations whereby bodies were piled on top of metal grates over a wood fire. That both the Tibetan and Dresden pyres worked, undermines your claim the AR camp cremations could not have worked.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 5, 2022 18:03:09 GMT
Nessie wrote:
No, the pile of bodies shown in Dresden isn't even similar to the single layer of bodies over a fuel filled pit in Tibet. Neither is there any proof beyond your questionable photograph that the bodies in the Altmarkt were the bodies that were cremated. The only similarity is that there are dead bodies. I call bullshit.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 5, 2022 18:53:46 GMT
Nessie wrote: No, the pile of bodies shown in Dresden isn't even similar to the single layer of bodies over a fuel filled pit in Tibet. Neither is there any proof beyond your questionable photograph that the bodies in the Altmarkt were the bodies that were cremated. The only similarity is that there are dead bodies. I call bullshit. Your opinion does not matter. Come back when you have evidence. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 5, 2022 20:24:10 GMT
Neither does your asinine assumptions matter. The only thing in common with the Tibetan cadavers and the cadavers in Dresden is that all of the bodies are dead.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 5, 2022 20:28:35 GMT
Neither does your asinine assumptions matter. The only thing in common with the Tibetan cadavers and the cadavers in Dresden is that all of the bodies are dead. Three evidenced reports of cremations using grates and you appear to only believe the evidence of one of them. You cannot just pick and chose what you want to believe in, whether it is evidenced or not, based only on what you want to believe. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Jan 5, 2022 22:35:34 GMT
Nessie declares that an unrelated event and two of his suppositions are all proof that he's just speaking the truth about cremations is good for a hoot but not much else.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Jan 6, 2022 9:51:48 GMT
Nessie declares that an unrelated event and two of his suppositions are all proof that he's just speaking the truth about cremations is good for a hoot but not much else. The other cremations on grates are not proof, they are supporting evidence and undermine your claim that type of cremation is impossible. |
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